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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:33 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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I think you guys are really underestimating the sex that is Brook Lopez.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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This is what I hate about how the average person looks at the NBA or even sports in general. Before Gasol went to LA he was completely overlooked when talking about the best bigs in the game. Now he's suddenly the best because he plays with more talent around him. Is he any better than he was in Memphis? No he's not, he plays on a better team that gets more attention.

Whoever said Dwight is one of the most overrated players in the league, I agree with you because he still can't give you consistent offensive production when you throw it to him in the post. He's still a better player than Gasol though.
Thank you sir.

I do not like his offensive game whatsoever.

I would still take Gasol on the lakers, but thats just due to the fact that we dont really need a center.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
I think you guys are really underestimating the sex that is Brook Lopez.
i would LOVE Brook Lopez....if that means anything.

Can the lakers have him?
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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So David Stern comes out and rips Lebron. Hypocrite much? An i hate to bring up more Lebron but lets say ESPN didn't go all day coverage and call it "The decision" like it was the 2nd coming of jesus, if they just let it go its course and treat it as another press conference is it still such a big deal?
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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This is what I hate about how the average person looks at the NBA or even sports in general. Before Gasol went to LA he was completely overlooked when talking about the best bigs in the game. Now he's suddenly the best because he plays with more talent around him. Is he any better than he was in Memphis? No he's not, he plays on a better team that gets more attention.
Yeah, but does that mean he was underrated in Memphis or overrated in LA? I lean towards the latter. He's not better than Howard, but he still is one of the best big men in the NBA.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
This is what I hate about how the average person looks at the NBA or even sports in general. Before Gasol went to LA he was completely overlooked when talking about the best bigs in the game. Now he's suddenly the best because he plays with more talent around him. Is he any better than he was in Memphis? No he's not, he plays on a better team that gets more attention.
I think this is a little case of seeing what you want to see. Gasol has definitely improved since his Memphis years, and I know it because he's improved as a Laker every year. In 2008 everyone and their mother talked about how soft Pau was...well he's added a more physical presence. In 2009 that was him preventing Dwight from doing much of anything in the finals.

Then there's the real hitch in this argument, the triangle offense, which his skillset is suited for like a glove. Nothing like that in Memphis.

So going to a better system while still improving is just as much of a factor in how people rank Gasol if you ask me. Of course teammates are helping that out too, and there's always going to more attention in LA, but give the guy some credit, these are valid changes (re: improvements) to his game that have come relatively recently in his career.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Stern is probably just mad it wasn't on NBA TV.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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So David Stern comes out and rips Lebron. Hypocrite much? An i hate to bring up more Lebron but lets say ESPN didn't go all day coverage and call it "The decision" like it was the 2nd coming of jesus, if they just let it go its course and treat it as another press conference is it still such a big deal?
Absolutely not. I already posted my thoughts on it, but I believe that even though it was LeBron's idea ESPN turned it into what it was. If it was just a regular press conference aired on ESPNews then no one would be making this big of a deal about. Granted, they would've have found other things to ***** about, but still...
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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All this talk of big men makes me wish there was a truly awesome big man in the game today.

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Old 07-13-2010, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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All this talk of big men makes me wish there was a truly awesome big man in the game today.

The dream was nasty!

how about Lew Alcindor....

the sky hook himself.

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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Dirk could be a great post player if he wanted to, but he prefers to do most of his work facing the basket. It's the biggest knock I have on him.
He'll take it to the basket if he isnt sinking shots. I would say the biggest problem with people's perception of Dirk is that he should be a down-low player. They guy is really just a SF/PF tweener who happens to be 7 feet tall.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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He'll take it to the basket if he isnt sinking shots. I would say the biggest problem with people's perception of Dirk is that he should be a down-low player. They guy is really just a SF/PF tweener who happens to be 7 feet tall.
And there is nothing wrong with it. Every player has its unique skill set and thats what Dirk is....Cant change him now...

and i promise this is the last video im going to post for a while, but while i was on Youtube i couldnt help but be amazed...



The guy had the most freakish skill set ever brought to the game of basketball, and had he not been diagnosed with aids may have gone down as the greatest ever.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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I dream every night another Pistol Pete Maravich re-enters our lives. Rubio???
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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The quality of basketball has dipped pretty significantly from the 90s.

For the life of me, I don't understand why the hook shot is no longer used by big men in the NBA. I mean seriously, it's an unstoppable weapon, why did it die?

That's the first shot i'd teach a big man. The post game as a whole is a dying art. I don't get it.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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The quality of basketball has dipped pretty significantly from the 90s.

For the life of me, I don't understand why the hook shot is no longer used by big men in the NBA. I mean seriously, it's an unstoppable weapon, why did it die?

That's the first shot i'd teach a big man. The post game as a whole is a dying art. I don't get it.
Maybe it's becoming a more guard oriented league?

Not sure, but there weren't that many great guards in the past when compared to the bigs. Jabbar, Chamberlain, Russell, and other forwards. During the 90's, many good guards started to pop up, like Stockton and Jordan and then Iverson and Kobe and DWade, and Paul, and Deron Williams, and others. I feel there are many more good guards than big men right now, and that wasn't always the case.

I dunno, my take on it, TBH I'm not the wisest when it comes to basketball history.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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And I agree with you on the hook shot, I saw Shaq do it countless times and it was money.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I don't get it.
where are these quality big men you want to teach the hook shot to?

college teams are all small lineups playing run-and-gun, the few big men out there make the jump to the NBA after a year and never get the chance to physically develop. or they are like Hasheem Thabeet and for some reason dominate in college only to suck in the NBA.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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where are these quality big men you want to teach the hook shot to?

college teams are all small lineups playing run-and-gun, the few big men out there make the jump to the NBA after a year and never get the chance to physically develop. or they are like Hasheem Thabeet and for some reason dominate in college only to suck in the NBA.
I know it sounds weird to say, but quality big men prospects should go develop professionally in Europe for a year or two instead of playing college basketball. Like you said, college basketball is worthless for developing big men, and they're simply overwhelmed physically in the NBA. Europe is the perfect solution for them to develop a year or two before jumping to the big leagues.

Plus, they get paid. I still haven't figured out why every big time bball prospect is doing the stupid one-and-done thing in college instead of going to Europe to get paid for a year. You're not being coddled and pretending to go to school. You're learning to be a professional, from professionals, in a foreign country to boot. It's the best education you could receive.

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Old 07-13-2010, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
I know it sounds weird to say, but quality big men prospects should go develop professionally in Europe for a year or two instead of playing college basketball. Like you said, college basketball is worthless for developing big men, and they're simply overwhelmed physically in the NBA. Europe is the perfect solution, plus they get paid.
If I was a top HS prospect, I would try and pull a Brandon Jennings and make money in European leagues until I was draft eligible.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/story?id=5377055
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The Charlotte Bobcats, after backing out of a trade with Toronto, have traded Tyson Chandler to the Dallas Mavericks.

The Bobcats send Chandler and Alexis Ajinca to Dallas for Erick Dampier, Eduardo Najera, Matt Carroll and cash considerations.
So, we get Chandler (yes!) and unload some **** contracts. You're doing it right Donnie Nelson.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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If I was a top HS prospect, I would try and pull a Brandon Jennings and make money in European leagues until I was draft eligible.
Exactly. I don't know why prospects haven't figured it out. Especially big men.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Goosemahn View Post
Maybe it's becoming a more guard oriented league?

Not sure, but there weren't that many great guards in the past when compared to the bigs. Jabbar, Chamberlain, Russell, and other forwards. During the 90's, many good guards started to pop up, like Stockton and Jordan and then Iverson and Kobe and DWade, and Paul, and Deron Williams, and others. I feel there are many more good guards than big men right now, and that wasn't always the case.

I dunno, my take on it, TBH I'm not the wisest when it comes to basketball history.
There were still guys like Bob Cousy, Clyde Frazier, Oscar Robertson, etc. The league was a big man dominated league until MJ came along, and everyone wanted to be like Mike and dunk everything in sight, forgetting that Mike was far, far more than a dunker. There have been like, two all-time great big men coming into the league since the mid-90s(Shaq and Duncan, well maybe KG too, but not as high up as the other 2). There have been a bunch of all-star calibre PFs, but two all-star calibre Cs entering the league in the last 10 years, and one of them can't stay on the court.

I think part of it is what Brent mentioned, but there's more to it too. Building a smooth post game takes a lot of practice, and isn't as glamorous as just throwing it down in traffic. Also, I read a while back that while in AAU, Dwight Howard's coach actually told him not to do anything but dunk. If they're being taught dunk dunk dunk from a young age, it's no wonder there are so few post up wizards left in the game. And lastly, I think partof the blame falls on the zone defense, which allows teams to crowd the paint better.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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I think we don't see big men in the NBA today like we used to bc they simply aren't learning the fundamentals of the position like they used to.

Take a look at a guy like Glenn Davis. That fatboy has skill. He's not even that tall, but he worked on his post game and look what he can do. He's an overachiever on that frame bc he learned the basic fundamentals of playing inside as a big man. If he was 3 inches taller, he'd be an all star.

All these 6 10 - 7 foot guys, they simply don't put in the work to learn that post up game. They all want to play like guards nowadays. And coaches aren't teaching them how to post up anymore.

I think that's the problem. It's not that we lack big men, we just lack the proper coaching and commitment.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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these days, stupid hand-checking rules and star-treatment "rules" make it more profitable to build around talented wingmen/guards anyways...
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I think that's the problem. It's not that we lack big men, we just lack the proper coaching and commitment.
If I am a high school coach and I have a player who is 6'10" to 7'0", why would I bother teaching him to post up when I can run a zone defense with him in the paint and, given his height, let him simply just hold the ball above other kids and score?

What I described is basically how this guy, who I went to high school with, got a college scholarship for simply being huge
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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these days, stupid hand-checking rules and star-treatment "rules" make it more profitable to build around talented wingmen/guards anyways...
that's true. I remember reading somewhere that bruce bowen tried countering the hand checking rules by using his hips to knock guys off balance as they drove to the paint. it's not as effective, but it's better than nothing.

i liked the old days when there was hand checking, and no zone defense. granted, many teams ran a pseudo-zone anyway, by just kicking their Center in and out of the zone area, but it was still better than today.
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