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View Poll Results: Is James Harden your favorite player?
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:41 PM    (permalink
TACKLE
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I agree with BBD that you don't see the skilled low-post play from the 7 footers. But you do see some undersized posts like Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Boris Diaw and Big Baby who have developed great post moves to overcome their lack of size.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
If I am a high school coach and I have a player who is 6'10" to 7'0", why would I bother teaching him to post up when I can run a zone defense with him in the paint and, given his height, let him simply just hold the ball above other kids and score?

What I described is basically how this guy, who I went to high school with, got a college scholarship for simply being huge
See, but at the same time, the player himself should work on his game on his own as well, and develop moves to make himself a better player. If I was 7 feet tall, I'd be in the gym every day working on my game for hours.

If you just develop a hook shot, fade away jumper, and a spin move as a big man, you can't be stopped.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, it's all the **** coaching. There's plenty of talent, but none of it is being developed properly.

Also, just to chime in on the Gasol/Howard debate, Howard is a scrub. The Lakers leaned on Gasol down the stretch in Game 7 and he delivered. You can't even depend on Howard to hit a freakin FT, much less get you a bucket within two minutes. He's a beast defender and the easily the best rebounder in the game right now, but Gasol is light years ahead of him offensively. For one season, if i have to choose, i'd take Gasol. The difference between their offense is far greater than that of their defense.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Yao is an extremely skilled big man.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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I think this is a little case of seeing what you want to see. Gasol has definitely improved since his Memphis years, and I know it because he's improved as a Laker every year. In 2008 everyone and their mother talked about how soft Pau was...well he's added a more physical presence. In 2009 that was him preventing Dwight from doing much of anything in the finals.

Then there's the real hitch in this argument, the triangle offense, which his skillset is suited for like a glove. Nothing like that in Memphis.

So going to a better system while still improving is just as much of a factor in how people rank Gasol if you ask me. Of course teammates are helping that out too, and there's always going to more attention in LA, but give the guy some credit, these are valid changes (re: improvements) to his game that have come relatively recently in his career.


I don't "want" to see anything. I have no problem with Gasol or the Lakers. It just makes me sick that players don't get attention in small markets but when they get traded into a good situation suddenly they're the best in the league.

I'm not even knocking Gasol necessarily, it's just that his numbers really haven't changed since the trade and just because he kept Dwight in check for one series doesn't make him the best in the league because Dwight isn't even that great of an offensive player to begin with. It was the collective height of the Lakers frontcourt that stopped him from grabbing offensive boards and getting putbacks.

I'm not denying that he's a great player, he's a top 5 big in the league for sure. I'd put him behind Howard, Dirk (If he even counts), and pretty much a draw with Bosh.

Edit- I forgot about Yao, I'd take a healthy Yao over Gasol.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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See, but at the same time, the player himself should work on his game on his own as well, and develop moves to make himself a better player. If I was 7 feet tall, I'd be in the gym every day working on my game for hours.

If you just develop a hook shot, fade away jumper, and a spin move as a big man, you can't be stopped.
See, here is the problem with that......when I was 15-16, my mind wouldn't have been on anything like that. And I don't think most kids are. Since we're older and we realize the benefit that would bring about for us, we say we'd work hard to develop the things that will make us a dominant player, but I think that most high school kids who are 7' tall go in, dominate their games with their height, take the free college and the possible millions of NBA dollars you can get with very little work.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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that's true. I remember reading somewhere that bruce bowen tried countering the hand checking rules by using his hips to knock guys off balance as they drove to the paint. it's not as effective, but it's better than nothing.

i liked the old days when there was hand checking, and no zone defense. granted, many teams ran a pseudo-zone anyway, by just kicking their Center in and out of the zone area, but it was still better than today.
I'd argue that what Bowen did is more effective.

When you're defending someone driving towards the paint, you can use your lower body to shove them off balance while still keeping both your hands and arms available for defensive purposes. There's lots of defensive drills that teach that, and when you can master that technique, you can drive guards crazy.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't technically think of Dirk as a "big man" in the NBA. His game is totally different from guys like Howard, Bosh, and Gasol.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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not like anyone besides the Suns has actually used a zone effectively
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
I don't technically think of Dirk as a "big man" in the NBA. His game is totally different from guys like Howard, Bosh, and Gasol.
Pretty much. Brent summed it up best. He's a SF/PF in a big man's body. He, Rashad Lewis, and Channing Frye are all in the same mode, except Dirk is much, much more skilled than those guys.

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Old 07-13-2010, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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If I was a top HS prospect, I would try and pull a Brandon Jennings and make money in European leagues until I was draft eligible.


The problem with that is a lot of the big time high school recruits don't fit the European style which is more reliant on fundamentals. I mean it worked out for Jennings but going over to Europe to sit on the bench for a full year and not developing your game isn't always the right move. Ask Jeremy Tyler.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't technically think of Dirk as a "big man" in the NBA. His game is totally different from guys like Howard, Bosh, and Gasol.
Bosh isn't all that different from Dirk.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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not like anyone besides the Suns has actually used a zone effectively
Only because the Lakers are ********, and it took them two games to realize that attacking down the baseline kills the zone. As soon as they started doing that, Gentry scrapped it.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Yao is an extremely skilled big man.
Yao is the perfect example of what happens when you're coached properly. He has zero athleticism yet he can drop 30/10 on a nightly basis if he wanted to. Such a shame that he can't keep his legs healthy, cause he's easily the best C in the game when 100%.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Bosh isn't all that different from Dirk.
Bosh=KG minus the defense

Turn around fadeaway jumpers alllllll dayyyyyyy. That's his entire game. Literally.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Bosh=KG minus the defense

Turn around fadeaway jumpers alllllll dayyyyyyy. That's his entire game. Literally.
I agree, that is a perfect comparison....i dont see Dirk in Bosh at all.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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I agree, that is a perfect comparison....i dont see Dirk in Bosh at all.
I just meant that Bosh isn't really your typical PF, given his weak defense and reluctance to attack the basket on offense.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Bosh has more of a face up post game than Garnett did. I didn't see Bosh take a whole lot of fadeaways in the 3 Toronto games I've seen since he went there.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Dwayne Wade also said he feels sorry for whoever has to guard them. Oh I wouldn't worry about that :P

Btw im just kidding, dont get all defensive (no pun intended).
If only people were robots instead that had unlimited stamina, because there's no way in hell anyone can do that for more than a few times down the floor every half.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Bosh has more of a face up post game than Garnett did. I didn't see Bosh take a whole lot of fadeaways in the 3 Toronto games I've seen since he went there.
Was Al Jefferson defending him? If so, that would make a lot of sense.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Was Al Jefferson defending him? If so, that would make a lot of sense.


I don't think he had 20 wide open dunks that game so most likely not.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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I think Bosh is getting a bad rap as a defender. As long as he isn't forced to play Center that is.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:50 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Bosh isn't all that different from Dirk.
Uh... What!?
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:59 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
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Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Uh... What!?
I explained what I meant...
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:04 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
I explained what I meant...
Dirk is a far greater shooter than Bosh
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