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View Poll Results: Who will win the NBA Championship in 2013?
Miami Heat 15 26.79%
Miami Heat 3 5.36%
Miami Heat 31 55.36%
Miami Heat 6 10.71%
Miami Heat 1 1.79%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-14-2010, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
I agree with this, Wall will be better too, Rose's game is just too limited, his ceiling is Tony Parker
How is Rose's game limited?

And Tony Parker? You do realize that Rose is twice the athlete Parker is and has a better jumper at the same point in their careers right? Rose is arguably one of the best mid-range shooters in the league (shot 44% from that range). Give him a prime Duncan and see what happens.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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so you agree that Rose is nothing more than a #2
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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I agree with this, Wall will be better too, Rose's game is just too limited, his ceiling is Tony Parker
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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How is Rose's game limited?

And Tony Parker? You do realize that Rose is twice the athlete Parker is and has a better jumper at the same point in their careers right? Rose is arguably one of the best mid-range shooters in the league (shot 44% from that range). Give him a prime Duncan and see what happens.
Exactly. Just because their games are similar, doesn't mean that's what his ceiling is.

Also, Parker has only averaged 6+ assists in 3 seasons his entire career. Rose has already done it in both of his first two seasons. He's already a 5 ppg better scorer than Parker was at a similar stage in their careers, with way, way, way less talent around him.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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so you agree that Rose is nothing more than a #2
Isn't a PG almost always a #2, by the nature of the position? Define what a "#2" is.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Yea, that's part of the problem with him only having played 1 year in college. From everything I've read/heard/seen, it took him a while in HS to become comfortable in his style of play with regards to everyone around him. I think it wasn't until late that he started just taking over, I could be wrong.

We saw the same thing at Memphis. All during the season he just deferred to everyone, but come tournament time he started taking over once he was comfortable.

There have been glimpses of that on the Bulls, especially this past year like in the playoffs. I think he needs to just accept that mentality from now on. Once he gets comfortable with the level of the game and in his situation, he should definitely be able to turn it on.

Like you said, he's just a kid, and I think he's still intimidated/doesn't know his place yet.
I think Rose has a killer instinct, but his humbleness tends to interfere with it. As he continues to grow and mature I think you'll see him be more aggressive.

I just go back and watch the Game 1 highlights of the Boston series to remind myself that I need to be patient with him. He certainly has the physical tools and the work ethic to be an elite player in this league.

But, I will agree with you that his passive mentality is the one thing holding him back. Love them or hate them, guys like Jordan/Bryant/LeBron were/are great because of their cockiness and arrogance.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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This supremely talented fellow has more rings alone that the new Heat-trifecta combined.

Also, their faces are funny.

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Old 07-14-2010, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Just because their games are similar, doesn't mean that's what his ceiling is.

Also, Parker has only averaged 6+ assists in 3 seasons his entire career. Rose has already done it in both of his first two seasons. He's already a 5 ppg better scorer than Parker was at a similar stage in their careers, with way, way, way less talent around him.
And Rose had one of the worst outside shooting teams in the league this year (along with no post threat).

It's really hard to tell what kind of player Rose is right now. He has the ability to be an elite scorer at this level, but he also has playmaking skills. I've said this before, but I think Rose is a mini-LeBron James. Whereas Wall is a Rondo/Wade combo. Should be fun watching those two develop over the years.

In fact, I don't think Rose really understands how good of a player he can become. He could really care less about individual accolades as his focus is winning games. It also didn't help having Vinny Del ******* Negro as his coach. He's so humble and unassuming and that plays against him at times.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Rose is officially underrated because of this conversation...if he gets that J straightened out there is nothing in the NBA he cannot do.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Rose is officially underrated because of this conversation...if he gets that J straightened out there is nothing in the NBA he cannot do.

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Old 07-14-2010, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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The Knicks don't have a 1st round draft pick for the next 2 years.....


*sigh*
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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I honestly think you can legitimately argue either one. I love Rose, and he's on my team, so obviously for the moment I'd side with him. But I haven't watched nearly enough of Tyreke to make a good decision.

That said, Rose still has tons of potential he hasn't even sniffed yet. I love the kid, but his biggest flaw is that he is way, waaayyy too laid back. If he could develop a sense of urgency, that killer instinct, I think he could be phenominal. The problem is, he's perfectly happy being a facilitator, letting other guys do what they want and doing what he can to make them better. He doesn't have the type of personality to say, "**** you guys, if we want to win, give me the ball and get out of the way." It's more like, "Oh, you want me to take over. Ok, I guess I can do that if everyone wants me to."

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy that Rose isn't some huge asshole on the court, and love that he carries himself with a lot of respect for both other players and the game. But he might need to change that to take his game to the next level. He's way to passive right now.

How is Tyreke's jump shot compared to Rose's. I know Rose is still developing his, but his jumper from the elbow has become pretty automatic. Does Reke have some range?
Rose just isn't that type of player. He's not a Kobe or lebron type guy or even a gilbert arenas. Rose will always be a #2 guy that needs a #1 to be truly successful.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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so you agree that Rose is nothing more than a #2
When did I ever say that? Rose certainly isn't a pure PG (I'll concede that point to D-Unit), but he has enough playmaking skills to make his teammates better. He's more of a combo guard to be honest. He can run the offense and set people up. Or he can take over and score.

I think adding Boozer and a shooter will greatly help his game. He'll be deadly on the pick and roll with Boozer and teams won't be able to pack the lane like they did this year. He loves to drive and kick, which will be a lot easier with added weapons on offense.

Bill Simmons said after the Boston series he removed the ceiling from Derrick's game and I have to agree. I don't think he'll ever reach his maximum potential, but a couple years down the line he's going to be a scary, scary player, especially if we can keep up the talent around him.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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Rose just isn't that type of player. He's not a Kobe or lebron type guy or even a gilbert arenas. Rose will always be a #2 guy that needs a #1 to be truly successful.
I really don't know how you can make that determination this early in his career. What PG doesn't need a #1, or a go-to-guy to be truly successful?
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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I think Rose has a killer instinct, but his humbleness tends to interfere with it. As he continues to grow and mature I think you'll see him be more aggressive.

I just go back and watch the Game 1 highlights of the Boston series to remind myself that I need to be patient with him. He certainly has the physical tools and the work ethic to be an elite player in this league.

But, I will agree with you that his passive mentality is the one thing holding him back. Love them or hate them, guys like Jordan/Bryant/LeBron were/are great because of their cockiness and arrogance.
Yea, I didn't mean he doesn't have that killer instinct. We definitely have seen glimpses of it. Just that, more often than not he's content to take a back seat and let things happen rather than making them happen. We only really see that aggressiveness when his back's against the wall. He needs to play like that whether it's game 7 or the first game of the season.

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Rose is officially underrated because of this conversation...if he gets that J straightened out there is nothing in the NBA he cannot do.
Ehh, he still needs to start making some better decisions and improve his D a bunch. I'm ok with his decision making, it'll come with time, but like he worked on his jumper last offseason, I hope he can work with Thibodeau to improve his D. He's so raw defensively (like most of his game) that he could make huge strides on D given his athleticism and work ethic.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Rose reminds me of Dwayne Wade, except he's a better passer, but has a worse jump shot.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I really don't know how you can make that determination this early in his career. What PG doesn't need a #1, or a go-to-guy to be truly successful?
Exactly. Some people on this forum want him to take over games, but it's not in the nature of the PG position to do so.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

someone has to hate on other teams while you all hate on Miami
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Let's hate on Boston.

lol they're old and recommitted to Allen and Pierce in a desperate attempt to remain relevant only to see Miami totally **** them.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH View Post
Rose just isn't that type of player. He's not a Kobe or lebron type guy or even a gilbert arenas. Rose will always be a #2 guy that needs a #1 to be truly successful.
I strongly, strongly disagree with this assessment. He's certainly not going to carry a team night in and night out, but give him a #2 option and some solid role players and he will be extremely successful.

And BBD, I don't like the Wade comparison. Rose's jumper is already light years ahead of where Wade's was at 21 (he's 8 years older than Rose as well). Wade also draws contact a lot better than Rose, which is why I say Wall reminds me of Wade moreso than Derrick does.

Rose is the definition of a combo guard, not that there is anything wrong with that. He's still figuring out how his game fits into this league. He's certainly not a true PG, but he's also not a 2. He's somewhere in between.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Let's hate on Boston.

lol they're old and recommitted to Allen and Pierce in a desperate attempt to remain relevant only to see Miami totally **** them.
I'm on that bandwagon. I can't stand anyone on that roster (outside of Ray Allen).
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Break out player this year... Donte Greene SF for the Kings. 6'11 225lbs so he already has the size and length factor over almost every SF in the league. His jump shot has been improving every year and with Tyreke hopefully improving off his 20 5 5 season and Cousins being a go to big man he should thrive. He is our defensive stopper also and as of now has the nod over Casspi to start IMO.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Rose did a decent job of taking the team on his back in several games, he just wasn't consistent with it. He also hasn't figured out his balance between scoring and passing. A few things I said earlier in this thread was that we don't know where his ceiling is, and that we will see better things from him in his third year, with more to work with. The things that he has going for him are his work ethic and that he is very responsive to coaching.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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This supremely talented fellow has more rings alone that the new Heat-trifecta combined.

Also, their faces are funny.

Someone needs to add Vujacic and his two rings to this.
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Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
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do i tell you when to flip the burger?
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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John Salley laughs at Adam Morrison.
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