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View Poll Results: Who will win the NBA Championship in 2013?
Miami Heat 15 26.79%
Miami Heat 3 5.36%
Miami Heat 31 55.36%
Miami Heat 6 10.71%
Miami Heat 1 1.79%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-21-2010, 03:53 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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D-Unit you do realize that Darren Collison is a LONG way from being anything close to Chris Paul, right?

I know he played fairly well when Paul was out but he can't be playing point guard with the insane amount of turn overs he was committing.
Please don't tell me that you know how the rest of Collison's career is going to go down as. I don't even know if Paul will be the same after his injury. He may just reinjure it or be scared to reinjure it, or I dunno... there will be question marks for sure. But I do know that Collison will be a damn good player in his own right and I'm not ready to limit his ability just because he committed TOs in the short time he was a starter. He did WAY more good than bad as rookie. Then when you factor in how long you can keep him and how much he makes compared to Paul... Makes it easy to consider trading Paul away. It's not like NOR would be giving Paul away for nothing. You would bring back just as much value in return or else don't trade him. So what's the harm if you bring back the same value player wise, and get to improve the rest of your team? No harm at all. In fact, it's a plus.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mdmgrand View Post
Who else here wants to see a full year from Greg Oden... according to Hollinger Oden had a top ten PER before getting injured... The game has moved away from true centers.. I just want to see an enforcer out there who then can turn around and show at least some semblance of a post game...

If he stays healthy, I believe that the Lakers will have their hands full and have a legitimate roadblock to the championship...
Of course, but we'll be saying that about him his entire career so at some point you've gotta just let it go. Greg Oden will never be able to stay healthy, he's been mr. glass ever since he was drafted and it's not gonna change.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Kevin Pritchard picked Oden over Durant and people wonder why he was fired...

Then again... Dumars has got to be the worse and he still has a job.. picking Darko ahead of Wade, Bosh and Melo. ...giving Gordon and Villanueva those contracts too. LMAO. He got a ring so I guess his future is secure. LOL.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Well Oden was supposed to be the next great big man. And they're not the easiest things to find. I dont think you can really knock the pick all that much at the time.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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god, I can't wait til Bropez makes the USA team, starts, and dominates the world. literally
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Has anyone else's team made changes to their front office structure in preparation for the new CBA?

Lon Babby was hired as President of Basketball Operations, a new position for the Suns, he will be running most of the show but we are expected to hire a GM. And we have created 4 new positions in the front office, Talent Evaluation, CBA/Salary Cap, Negotiations, Communications With Players.

Talent Evaluation is like rookie scouting but for current NBA players, Suns have made it clear they don't intend build the future of the franchise through the draft.

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Sarver mentioned the Suns will focus more on scouting NBA players and will add dedicated staff for that without reducing scouts focused on college. Also mentioned hiring Goran's strength and conditioning coach to work full-time with the players in the offseason
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/20...ess-conference
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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god, I can't wait til Bropez makes the USA team, starts, and dominates the world. literally
how fast can he close out to guys on the perimeter...?
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Well Oden was supposed to be the next great big man. And they're not the easiest things to find. I dont think you can really knock the pick all that much at the time.
As if Portland didn't learn anything from the Sam Bowie incident. lol.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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As if Portland didn't learn anything from the Sam Bowie incident. lol.
I think the decision between Oden and Durant was a lot harder than what Bowie and MJ should have been...
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I actually got Adam Morrison for Vladimir Radmanovic once. Of course, it was NBA Live 07 (TMac on cover), and Morrison was supposed to be good.

I was also surprised to see that Kwame Brown + Aaron McKie for Pau Gasol does actually work in the game. Brown (75) isn't an expiring contract just yet, and McKie (60-something) just sucks. Gasol's pretty good (85).
In Madden I once traded Thomas Jones to the Jets and another time, I traded Alex Brown to the Saints....

Not exact, but this was at least 2-3 years ago so it's kind of creepy that those players ended up there.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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I think the decision between Oden and Durant was a lot harder than what Bowie and MJ should have been...
Not really, Portland already had Clyde Drexler.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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If I were NOR I would do this. Grade me.

Stojakovic and Songaila come off the books this summer. Let that happen and you're sitting with a salary around $46M. This year's cap is around $58M IIRC. $12M isn't enough to sign a max FA, so I go to work to get further under.

Obviously, Chris Paul is your biggest trading chip. The dude wants out. Don't let the situation fester and in the meanwhile prevent the future from happening now. What I mean is, don't stunt the growth of Darren Collison by keeping Paul. Rearrange your money allocation. Collison is locked up until 2014 on a dirt cheap contract. If you compare the amount that Paul makes, and the amount Collison makes, it doesn't add up to Paul being THAT much better. Collison is a perfect replacement for Paul. He's bound for stardom and he made a lot of people believers last year when he got the chance. I'd kill for him to be on the Magic. Behind him is a young vet, Luther Head. I've always liked him going back to his days in college. He's a nice compliment to Collison. Your current PG situation is fine as is. Just need depth for a 3rd stringer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Next summer, Marcus Thornton is also going to be a FA. You can bet he will cash in big time. So you need more than just the $12M in cap if you want to resign Thornton and add some nice FAs. Thornton showed incredible scoring ability and looked like the biggest steal of the draft at the end of the year last year. He and Collison built instant chemistry on the floor. Give them time to grow and play together and they will flourish. Right now the depth behind him is weak. As much as you want to let Thornton soak up his opportunity and flourish, you still need some kind of stability.

Trade1:

Hornets get:
Vince Carter $17M expiring
Brandon Bass $4M per year
Marcin Gortat $6.3M per year
Total: $27.3M

Magic get:
Emeka Okafor $11.5M per year
James Posey $6.5M per year
David West $8.3M per year
Total: $26.3M


Why it works for NOR:
Carter can be a solid presence off the bench. He's a high character guy who can guide Thornton down the correct path to stardom. Then at the end of the season, you clear $17M off the books...even if he's not what you thought he would be. You also dump Okafor and Posey's ugly contracts and free up your financial future for the long term. The rewards are self explanatory. Losing West stings a little, but not a lot. The guy has a player option to choose to hit FA next summer. The FA crop is weak. By making himself eligible, he becomes one of the most sought after FAs. This will probably be his last high paying contract, and I think it would be difficult for NOR to keep him in the fold under the current situation without this trade. Besides, Craig Brackins is a David West clone in the making AND you are also getting Brandon Bass from Orlando. Bass has a small $4M per year deal that lasts until 2013, but he has a PO in 2012 when he could choose to opt out. Gortat is the international flavor guy that your new GM loves. He has the ability to be a starting caliber NBA center. He's still young yet very mature and experienced. I could see him flourishing in a starting role. Plus, he doesn't make a lot of money that would strap you from upgrading the position if you desired. This trade saves NOR's multimillions and frees up their financial freedom of the future.

Why it works for the Magic:
Carter is a hated man in Orlando. I think it's undeserving, but his critics are loud and they are harsh. This deal does not help Orlando financially, but they are already strapped hard. It's not a matter of looking to save money, it's a matter of making that money spent, work effectively. Orlando has hit problems once they've hit the elite teams like LA and Boston. They're problem was partly being inadequate in the post. Gasol and Bynum were too much. KG, Davis, Wallace, Perkins were too much. Now Orlando has the post to match up. Howard, West, Okafor, Lewis. The good thing about it is that Okafor can play PF or C and he is a defensive specialist who doesn't need to be a ball hog to be effective. West is a guy who doesn't clog up the post where Dwight is either. He has a fantastic mid range shot and he knows how to work his way to the rim off the dribble. Both Okafor and West are also great rebounders. That will help the Magic who currently starts Lewis at the 4 who averages a measly 4 rebounds a game last year. Now Lewis can slide to the 3 where he played the first 9 years of his career. He still can stretch the floor effectively from that position and post up on smaller opposing SFs which he is good at. Posey is a solid guy off the bench when healthy and he'll find work at SG and SF at times. This deal locks up Orlando financially for a long time, but ownership hasn't been shy about spending money if they think it will help and they are not looking to be playing under the cap anytime soon either. They are banking on West to sign an extension which he would probably like to do on a winning team at this stage of his career in a tax free state too.

---------------------------------------------------------

Trade 2:

NOR gets:
Danny Granger $11M
Brandon Rush $2M
Roy Hibbert $2M
Total: $15M

IND gets:
Chris Paul $15M
Total: $15M

This is what I mean by allocating your resources. Trade a guy like Paul to get a guy like Granger to fill your need at SF, and build depth with Rush and Hibbert. You don't want to start the season with Peja Stojakovic as your starting SF, do you? Nah. Grab Granger who has been on the block to Indiana who has been desperately seeking a PG. Bada bing, bada boom.

Here's your 2010-11 New Orleans Hornets:

PG Darren Collison / Luther Head / 3rd stringer
SG Marcus Thornton / Vince Carter / Brandon Rush
SF Danny Granger / Julian Wright / Quincy Pondexter / Peja Stojakovic
PF Brandon Bass / Craig Brackins / Darius Songaila
C Marcin Gortat / Aaron Gray / Roy Hibbert

Going into the summer of 2011 you clear $37.1M off the books:

Stojakovic - $15.3M
Carter - $17M
Songaila - $4.8M

Plus you have the option to give very cheap Team Options to Hibbert, Rush, Collison and Wright has a Qualifying offer. That's flexibility. You have the ability to do MAJOR damage in FA. I haven't calculated it, but I think you could add 2 max contracts to that existing core.

As Keak would say... Bingo, Jingo, Jango!
Luther Head isn't on the team. The Hornets canceled the contract when Jeff Bower was fired. I agree with you that trades need to happen. I have posted several trade scenarios that the Hornets could do which would help clear space.

I don't see how the Indiana trade improves them but it is similar to the one Charlotte is proposing.

Charlotte receives:
Chris Paul

New Orleans receives
Erik Dampier ($13 mil expiring)
Gerald Wallace
Gerald Henderson
D.J. Augustin

Of course New Orleans would need to use several trade exceptions to make that trade work but they would be getting back a huge expiring plus some young talent in return.

Next thing to do is to try and get rid of Okafor and Posey's contracts. Atlanta could be in the market for Okafor and possibly Orlando in a trade like you proposed.

If those two trades happened (Charlotte and Orlando) then New Orleans could have Dampier, VC, Peja, and Darius Songalia coming off the books next year which would clear $50.1 million.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Please don't tell me that you know how the rest of Collison's career is going to go down as. I don't even know if Paul will be the same after his injury. He may just reinjure it or be scared to reinjure it, or I dunno... there will be question marks for sure. But I do know that Collison will be a damn good player in his own right and I'm not ready to limit his ability just because he committed TOs in the short time he was a starter. He did WAY more good than bad as rookie. Then when you factor in how long you can keep him and how much he makes compared to Paul... Makes it easy to consider trading Paul away. It's not like NOR would be giving Paul away for nothing. You would bring back just as much value in return or else don't trade him. So what's the harm if you bring back the same value player wise, and get to improve the rest of your team? No harm at all. In fact, it's a plus.
When did I say I knew what Darren Collison career was going to be like, good or bad? I said he had a long way to go before he was on Paul's level (long being a indeterminate amount of time).

In fact, I think Collison will be a good player as well, I just don't think he has the talent nor vision that Chris Paul does. Which isn't really a knock as CP3 is a top 10 NBA player and arguably the best PG in the NBA.

He can still be a very good starting NBA point guard, if he reduces his turnovers. I just don't think everyone should be penciling him in as the next Chris Paul or anything close to that level, is all.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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When did I say I knew what Darren Collison career was going to be like, good or bad? I said he had a long way to go before he was on Paul's level (long being a indeterminate amount of time).

In fact, I think Collison will be a good player as well, I just don't think he has the talent nor vision that Chris Paul does. Which isn't really a knock as CP3 is a top 10 NBA player and arguably the best PG in the NBA.

He can still be a very good starting NBA point guard, if he reduces his turnovers. I just don't think everyone should be penciling him in as the next Chris Paul or anything close to that level, is all.
You would probably be surprised how good Collison's floor vision actually is then. I'm not gonna say he's on Paul's level, but he's not that far away like you make it seem. He definitely has all the tools to do be a great PG in his own right. Regardless of the comparison.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=26uqnbg

maybe Blazers get a 2nd too

Nash - Dragic - Reynolds
Richardson - Fernandez
Turkoglu - Childress - Cunningham
West - Warrick - Lawal
Fropez - Frye
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:42 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Luther Head isn't on the team. The Hornets canceled the contract when Jeff Bower was fired. I agree with you that trades need to happen. I have posted several trade scenarios that the Hornets could do which would help clear space.

I don't see how the Indiana trade improves them but it is similar to the one Charlotte is proposing.

Charlotte receives:
Chris Paul

New Orleans receives
Erik Dampier ($13 mil expiring)
Gerald Wallace
Gerald Henderson
D.J. Augustin

Of course New Orleans would need to use several trade exceptions to make that trade work but they would be getting back a huge expiring plus some young talent in return.

Next thing to do is to try and get rid of Okafor and Posey's contracts. Atlanta could be in the market for Okafor and possibly Orlando in a trade like you proposed.

If those two trades happened (Charlotte and Orlando) then New Orleans could have Dampier, VC, Peja, and Darius Songalia coming off the books next year which would clear $50.1 million.
Yeah, that Charlotte trade would be really REALLY great for you.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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As if Portland didn't learn anything from the Sam Bowie incident. lol.
To be fair, they had Clyde the Glide in his prime at SG. It would have been like the Jazz taking John Wall kinda.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, they had Clyde the Glide in his prime at SG. It would have been like the Jazz taking John Wall kinda.
Awesome?!!?
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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I think Portland clearly wanted Hakeem, but they lost out and Bowie forced their hand.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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That Dampier contract used to be ours :(

I doubt NO would trade him to a division rival anyways.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, that Charlotte trade would be really REALLY great for you.
If I were the Hornets I would do that trade immediately same with the Orlando trade. The only problem I see with the Magic trade, however, is that it is fairly lopsided in terms of talent but acquiring Vince Carter's HUGE expiring contract would help the Hornets out tremendously when it comes to clearing cap space.

Here's what the lineup would look like if both trades happened:

PG: Darren Collison / D.J. Augustin
SG: Marcus Thornton / Vince Carter / Gerald Henderson
SF: Gerald Wallace / Julian Wright / Quicy Pondexter / Peja
PF: Brandon Bass / Craig Brackins / Darius Songalia
C : Marcin Gortat / Sean Marks / Eric Dampier

As of now, I would think Julian Wright could be used to supplement a trade with a team too just to cut down on roster size but having fifteen players would make them fairly deep. While that line-up might not make them a playoff team they would be incredibly young and shed their salary by over $50 million in 2011.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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D-Unit you do realize that Darren Collison is a LONG way from being anything close to Chris Paul, right?

I know he played fairly well when Paul was out but he can't be playing point guard with the insane amount of turn overs he was committing.
I'm somewhere between you two, I think Collison will make big strides, but his inconsistency would prevent them from a playoff run. That's why I think a NYK trade where they get Felton back would be helpful at PG. Collison gets to be the man with a consistent and steady vet sitting behind him for the games where he's off and to push him while providing good advice. The problem is what else would a NY trade for Paul take? Chandler, Randolph and/or Gallo? Taking back Posey and/or Okafor?
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Well Oden was supposed to be the next great big man. And they're not the easiest things to find. I dont think you can really knock the pick all that much at the time.
Yeah. In hindsight, it looks like a bad pick, but at the time you couldn't really fault them. Look at the young talent they had at the time. They had Roy, Martell Webster, Travis Outlaw and Lamarcus Aldridge. Those are all 3 positions Durant will ever be considered to play. Sure, none of them are as good as Durant, but considering that many had Oden rated the top prospect at the time, and their lack of a center after The Vanilla Gorilla, The Thrilla, Pyzbilla, the Oden pick is definitely understandable. It's just a shame he hasn't been able to stay healthy. He was inhumanly quick before he hurt his knee. I still think if that didn't happen he'd be either the best or 2nd best C in the NBA already.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=26uqnbg

maybe Blazers get a 2nd too

Nash - Dragic - Reynolds
Richardson - Fernandez
Turkoglu - Childress - Cunningham
West - Warrick - Lawal
Fropez - Frye
Scottie Reynolds and Dante Cunningham on the same NBA team? Sign me up to be a Suns fan. Still not sure Scottie makes the team even now, but that'd be awesome. Bet he gets a chance somewhere though, seems like Arn Tellem has taken a personal interest in the kid.

I'd like to see Rudy land on the Bulls though, a SG with some offensive talent would be nice. Bet he ends up back in Europe though, seems like he wants to go there and I don't think they're going to get much back for him. Teams know they need to get rid of him, not enough room at the 2/3 spots.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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I was severly saddened Scottie wasn't drafted. I also tried to get him on the mock offseason but didn't have any picks as a Nuggets GM. He seems to me as a solid backup but no 6th man or anything.
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