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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
Yes 623421 100.00%
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:44 PM    (permalink
Chucky
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Calling him the third best player on an elite team really isn't an insult..
It wasn't supposed to be. That is what I see his potential as. Opposed to the aformentioned potential of becoming one of the best second options in the league
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:51 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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It wasn't supposed to be. That is what I see his potential as. Opposed to the aformentioned potential of becoming one of the best second options in the league
You still haven't given me a reason why. He's a great shooter, he's dangerous attacking the hoop, draws contact well, is smart, is tough and checks for the pass if he doesn't have a great look. Offensively he's got a very versatile and talented set of skills, plus he's smart and knows how to use them. What's preventing Gallo from becoming a longer but slower Paul Pierce once he's fully adjusted to the NBA and his body?
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:53 PM    (permalink
Paul
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He's worn and battered, but I would take a flyer on Allen Iverson if I was the Cuban. If we were to have:

Allen Iverson
Jason Terry
Deshawn Stevenson/Tim Thomas
Shawn Marion
Tyson Chandler

coming off the bench, that'd be something to contend with.
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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He's worn and battered, but I would take a flyer on Allen Iverson if I was the Cuban. If we were to have:

Allen Iverson
Jason Terry
Deshawn Stevenson/Tim Thomas
Shawn Marion
Tyson Chandler

coming off the bench, that'd be something to contend with.
I think that team could beat the Wizards.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Gallinari is a great shooter...when he's on. The problem is that he was terribly inconsistent last season. 42% is good not great, and especially hurts when you see he only shot the ball 11 times a game.

I have only watched Gallo play full games vs. the Bulls and a handful of other games, and then just some clips, but it seems like his games where he's "on" he is a good shooter, not anything that special, but when he's "off" he was really, really bad and would keep launching 3s.

Just my 2 cents from what I've seen and obviously he will probably get better, but his "off" nights just really put me off to him. And idk if it was just because it was his rookie year, but he relied way too much on his 3 ball to be shooting 38% from distance (38% isn't bad, just not great)
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Gallinari is a great shooter...when he's on. The problem is that he was terribly inconsistent last season. 42% is good not great, and especially hurts when you see he only shot the ball 11 times a game.

I have only watched Gallo play full games vs. the Bulls and a handful of other games, and then just some clips, but it seems like his games where he's "on" he is a good shooter, not anything that special, but when he's "off" he was really, really bad and would keep launching 3s.

Just my 2 cents from what I've seen and obviously he will probably get better, but his "off" nights just really put me off to him. And idk if it was just because it was his rookie year, but he relied way too much on his 3 ball to be shooting 38% from distance (38% isn't bad, just not great)
He's still quite young. Most young players don't shoot well, and he's already established he has a talent for it. The Knicks also forced him to sit behind the three point line and make contested 3's all game until late in the year, which is when he really shined.

I just think Chucky hasn't watched him outside of a couple Knicks/Raptors games, and also dislikes the fact when Knicks fans rave about him. Thus he feels the need to discredit him without ever giving a definitive answer as to why he thinks he's not a high potential player.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:08 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Gallinari is a great shooter...when he's on. The problem is that he was terribly inconsistent last season. 42% is good not great, and especially hurts when you see he only shot the ball 11 times a game.

I have only watched Gallo play full games vs. the Bulls and a handful of other games, and then just some clips, but it seems like his games where he's "on" he is a good shooter, not anything that special, but when he's "off" he was really, really bad and would keep launching 3s.

Just my 2 cents from what I've seen and obviously he will probably get better, but his "off" nights just really put me off to him. And idk if it was just because it was his rookie year, but he relied way too much on his 3 ball to be shooting 38% from distance (38% isn't bad, just not great)
Here's the thing with gallo's % last year, for most of the year Duhon, Lee, Harrington and the other expiring bums where looking gallo off and weren't getting the ball to him outside of bailout 3s at the buzzer. Gallo's a very talented shooter, but no one is going to be shooting a great % when half of their 3s come off a **** pass with only a couple ticks on the shot clock.

Gallo's a little streaky like most shooters, but you're over-rating that, when he was on he was deadly, like when he came in his rookie year with only a couple games of PT and back pain and shot us back against the Magic, and when he's off he's just solid at a shooter and he actually did a great job not forcing up 3s when he wasn't on and we weren't telling him to stay deep and keep firing away.

A lot of the nights where he was his coldest were also the nights were he put up his biggest rebounding totals as he moved inside the arc and started battling and setting picks and doing the little things that he couldn't do when he was stuck behind the arc. That's something I love seeing from a young shooter, understanding on his own when he's cold and that when at those times he helps the team more doing other things.

Later in the season when he became a bigger part of the offense due to injuries and expiring bums getting benched he shot a much better % and when his long ball wasn't falling he attacked the hoop with great effect and was really impressive at drawing contact to get to the line. I know exactly what you're talking about and it's why I'm not a big fan of many big men who make their living with their jumpers, but Gallo is a guy who did a good job not shooting us out of games when he was cold. Sure there were games like the chicago game where he was told to just keep shooting so he did end up missing like 4 straight 3s, but he also ended up hitting 3 straight after that.

Another big thing to consider is we were being cautious with him, we didn't want the back to become a recurring thing so we wanted him to protect himself, see the game from the court, learn how the players here play and just shoot. This year those restrictions will be lifted from day one and he's a smart player who won't force up 3s when he's not hitting them if there are other guys that can be depended on to spread the floor.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 08-20-2010 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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You guys are making valid points. I've obviously expressed that I'm not big on Gallinari, but I don't think he's a bum. I do think a lot of it had to do with being early in his career and being forced into his position rather than allowed to play freely.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic with his ability to overcome being streaky because of his play. I think that because a large part of his game is/will be his mid to long range shooting (ala Dirk, for a loose comparison) being streaky is much more of a concern. Yea, young players usually have ups and downs, but inconsistency affects shooters more than anything. Maybe he will show a broader repertoire this season, who knows. But until then, I still see him as primarily a shooter that needs to stop being so streaky.

Also, his last 4 months he shot 41.6%, 41%, 43%, 43%. Again, not terrible, but he really didn't improve his shooting as the year went on. Actually, looking at his monthly totals he was pretty consistent in his shooting %. That actually shows that when he was on, he was lights out, but when he was off he was ice cold. Obviously you can say look at the potential from when he's really on, but there's no way to say that there's a better chance he will grow to be the lights out guy rather than the ice cold guy. At this point, no one can know what to expect.

Boooo long post.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Didn't realize his percentage stayed that steady, as he seemed to make more good shots as the season went on, although he did make a lot of bad shots earlier which I guess is why the percentage didn't change too much as well as fatigue from going through his first full NBA season. Still you're under-rating just how effective he was attacking the hoop, but that's something that he'll get to show more of this year to change your mind. I'm a big fan of this kid even though I was ready to write him off before my italian friend made me sit down and watch what he was doing over there.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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Yea, I'll admit I don't know the most about him. But from what I've seen, he shoots a lot and when he was cold he would throw up really terrible shots, which especially put me off on him. But that could just be inexperience. We'll have to see what happens this year.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Yea, I'll admit I don't know the most about him. But from what I've seen, he shoots a lot and when he was cold he would throw up really terrible shots, which especially put me off on him. But that could just be inexperience. We'll have to see what happens this year.
Plus that one BUlls game was just a really bad night by him where he took some really bad deep 3s, but then again at that point in the season the 2 feet behind the arc 3 was around the range he was forced into getting used to.

EDIT:

BTW WTF is up with all of this Rudy Fernandez chatter? I love the dude's talent as he could be a sweet player if he didn't force as many bad shots and tried on D, but what's he done in the NBA to warrant that much value? Wilson Chandler's shown a lot more and is younger even if he doesn't have as high of ceiling offensively, so why should the knicks give up a kid who's proven his strong midrange game and slashing for an unknown? Especially if we intend to hold out for Denver to get desperate enough to take a package for Melo centered around AR and not Gallo. Rudy's just too big of a risk to have as much value as the rumors seem to be suggesting.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 08-20-2010, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Great article on Pro Basketball Talk:

Quote:
Pat Riley used to talk about wanting to play five players of all basically the same height -- five players between 6'5" and 6'9" who could switch ever defensive pick, could all run the floor, who could all handle the ball a little, who could all cut to the basket from the wing, could all do things that would create matchup problems all over the court.

Those players could not have identical skills. Someone would have to be a playmaker, someone else a rebounding force. But the idea was potentially revolutionary -- to heck with traditional positions, it's about skills. Riley could think this way, he had a position-bending player in Magic Johnson leading his team.

Welcome to 2010, where we dare you to define Dirk Nowitzki as a power forward. Or Andray Blatche as a center. Or Kevin Durant as a small forward. Or LeBron James and Kobe Bryant period.

All over the NBA blogshpere this summer there have been discussions of a "positional revolution" -- an NBA without positions. That the versatility of today's players means we need to define NBA players in a way other than "he plays the five." It started with a great post from Drew Cannon at Basketball Prospectus, and has been followed up by some fascinating work, including by our own Rob Mahoney at his own blog Two Man Game.

Kobe Bryant was asked about this at Rucker Park last weekend and Dime Magazine has him backing the idea (via TrueHoop).
Speaking to the media during his World Basketball Festival appearance at Harlem's Rucker Park last weekend, Kobe said the influence of international players in the NBA has helped create a "hybrid" culture, where players of all sizes possess skills in all areas and can conceivably play any position on the floor.

"That's the one difference I'd like to see us kind of shift to," Kobe said.
There is truth to this. Particularly at what you might instead call the wing position, where guys like Durant and Kobe and LeBron live. The traditional definitions of a player no longer fit.

But at the same time, the NBA has seen a return in recent years to a traditional point guard more and more. Guys like Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Bradon Jennings, Darren Collison and more have flourished with quickness in a league with no hand-checking on the perimeter.

Then inside, a traditional big man is still a force. Dwight Howard is a classic center and one of the best players in the league. The two teams that reached the finals last June had Andrew Bynum and Kendrick Perkins in the middle. That kind of physical force in paint still is a game changer.

But the game is evolving, and with it our understanding or it needs to evolve with it. And redefining classic positions -- in the same way we need to redefine the classic box score -- is part of that.
That's one of the things that concerns me for the Heat, actually. Will Coach Spo unleash his dynamic, freakishly talented players? Or will he constrain them to a traditional style? I think the Heat's best lineup is:

G - Dwyane Wade
G - Mike Miller
F - LeBron James
F - Chris Bosh
C - Joel Anthony
6th man - Udonis Haslem


Use LeBron James as the "point" and run up and down the floor. The Heat had one of the slowest paces in the league last year; they need to play like Pat Riley's 80s Lakers and not Riley's 90s Heat.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Spoelstra said a while ago that he is gonna let them run, the offense won't even closely resemble what was on the court last year (aka get the ball to Dwyane).
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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I still think their small lineup will be the best one. It may not be the starting unit, but I think it will be their most productive one.

PG - Chalmers
SG - Wade
SF - Miller
PF - Lebron
C - Bosh

They're going to be weaker in the paint than anywhere else, but nobody would be able to run with that unit.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Wade mentioned that PG is Chalmers "to lose" and that he (Wade) can do it, but he likes Mario Chalmers shooting and defense. If he steps up, Rondo style, great. But if not there is really no purpose of starting a "Point Guard" on a team where both LeBron James and Dwyane Wade can do everything asked of them.

Best Lineup with a Center:

Wade
Miller
James
Bosh
Anthony

Best Lineup:

Wade
Miller
James
Haslem
Bosh

Lineup I expect day-1:

Chalmers
Wade
James
Bosh
Anthony
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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My favorite Chris Bosh moment. Nothing he does with Miami can top this classic.

BTW Bosh had a great quote about the Lakers:
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"We look good on paper. They look good on the Larry O'Brien Trophy."
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:19 PM    (permalink
diabsoule
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From Bill Simmons twitter about Team USA: "I'm OK w/ Chris Bosh skipping out on Team USA, he didn't need any more big game reps. The 2003 NIT, 1 Olympics + 11 playoff games is enough."
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Rose looked to be about the worst PG on the floor today
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
Rose looked to be about the worst PG on the floor today
Didn't Rubio have like 10 turn overs? Also, Rose did help them with a clutch basket towards the end of the game.
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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idk never saw stats, but Rubio stole it from Rose 4x when I was watching

Westbrook & Curry outplayed him though
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
I think that team could beat the Wizards.
John Wall > AI
Gilbert Arenas > Jason Terry
Josh Howard > Deshawn Suckenston
Blatche > Marion
McGee < Chandler

Yeah they'd beat us...
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
idk never saw stats, but Rubio stole it from Rose 4x when I was watching

Westbrook & Curry outplayed him though
Um, he stole it from Rose one time.

Derrick didn't have the greatest of games, but he came up clutch yesterday when the team needed him to.

And Rose hands down outplayed Chauncey Billups. If Billups isn't shooting he's pretty much worthless.

Westbrook was pretty damn inconsistent too (missed a dunk and a layup and had some pretty bad shot selection).

Curry only played 10 minutes so it's pretty difficult to get a true sample size of how he played.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang View Post
John Wall > AI
Gilbert Arenas > Jason Terry
Josh Howard > Deshawn Suckenston
Blatche > Marion
McGee < Chandler

Yeah they'd beat us...
I was just taking a shot at the Wizards, didn't say that with the intention of it being taken seriously.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Rubio outplayed Curry. Curry had a nice 2 possession stretch then got pulled for chucking a 3.
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like honestly lebron, instead of south beach, why don't you take your talents and just shove them up your ass.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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It's too bad we may not see Rubio, Navarro or Fernandez in the NBA for a while.... Spain's team is loaded, they'd clobber this team if they had Pau.

I still think Team USA was poorly constructed this go around. They have length and athleticism galore, but do they really expect to win with little 3P shooting and zero post game. Really Coach K? Four point guards and the back-up Center for the Mavs is your ticket to victory? Unless Kevin Durant goes off for 25/10 and getting two game saving blocks every game, this team is toast when the real bullets start flying.
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