NBA Discussion Thread - Page 1850

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

I can't really comment on work ethic so much as I don't know how hard he works but he does have plenty of moments in games in which he coasts and seems disinterested and doesn't want to dominate like he can. I said the same thing about Rudy *** though even coming out of college. I think a year at Baylor in which he is the man in the national spotlight will make it clear if he's going to be a special player or not.

Rudy still has moments where it looks like he doesn't give a ****, although he has improved. Either you have it or you don't. It's quite difficult to completely change your work ethic. There are some exceptions (McCamey being one at Illinois), but the truly great players work at their craft day in and day out.

Talent only gets you so far.

soybean · 10-28-2010, 06:06 PM

Oden was predestined to be the number 1 pick ever since they wanted him to graduate HIGH SCHOOL early so he could declare for the draft.

yo123 · 10-28-2010, 06:09 PM

I know that, I'm just saying if I was in that situation I would have taken Durant and not thought twice about it. By the time the draft came around though there were plenty of people who had Durant #1 and Oden didn't end up being as clear of a #1 pick as most people thought he would be.

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

I know that, I'm just saying if I was in that situation I would have taken Durant and not thought twice about it. By the time the draft came around though there were plenty of people who had Durant #1 and Oden didn't end up being as clear of a #1 pick as most people thought he would be.

Are you saying this in hindsight or did you actually believe it before the draft?

I know STRIP has always been a hater on Oden. I remember him doubting Oden during Ohio State's tournament run.

Can't really call a player a bust when they haven't been healthy enough to prove anything. Some may have predicted Durant having more success than Oden, but no one could've predicted the amount of injuries he's sustained.

I'm not sure if he has a frail body or if the injuries are just freak accidents. Either way, it's tough to watch that happen to a player.

yo123 · 10-28-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetness34

Are you saying this in hindsight or did you actually believe it before the draft?

I know STRIP has always been a hater on Oden. I remember him doubting Oden during Ohio State's tournament run.

Can't really call a player a bust when they haven't been healthy enough to prove anything. Some may have predicted Durant having more success than Oden, but no one could've predicted the amount of injuries he's sustained.

I'm not sure if he has a frail body or if the injuries are just freak accidents. Either way, it's tough to watch that happen to a player.

Thought so before the draft, I wasn't nearly as down on Oden as STRIP though, I thought he'd be a damn good player.

I think at a certain point you do have to call him a bust though. If you can't stay healthy you aren't contributing anything to your team whether it's his fault or not. His knees might just be shot like Bynum's.

Shiver · 10-28-2010, 06:19 PM

Durant was probably the choice of about 30-40% of people, myself included. But you cannot fault Portland for taking Oden; especially after San Antonio and Detroit dominated the entire decade based off of dominating defensive play in the paint.

SeanTaylorRIP · 10-28-2010, 06:37 PM

Yup I was really down on Oden, but really I feel bad for the guy and he hasn't really been able to prove himself because of the injuries. Still though all of those weaknesses I talked about before are even highlighted now whenever he comes back because I'm sure he lost a lot of that explosiveness which was his #1 asset as a player.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 10-28-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetness34

I will too. I pimped Oden up to the draft and stand by the fact that if not for his injuries he could've been a damn good player at this level. Oden hasn't struggled because he's not good enough. He's struggled because of freak injuries.

No one could've predicted Jordan's rise to greatness either and to this day I still think people are too hard on the Blazers taking Bowie. What Jordan did at his size was unheard of in a big man's league.

Today's game hasn't changed much either. A big man like Dwight Howard can dominate in a guard driven league and Oden fit the bill. They had some depth at guard and wanted to solidify their front court. On paper, Oden was a good fit for that team and what they thought they needed.

Not only was the Bowie pick just following conventional wisdom, they had Clyde Drexler at the position already. Why pass up a potentially great big man like Bowie for a guy you have no room on the floor for? Even Rod Thorn, the guy who drafted MJ, said this:

"We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player."

Also I still stand by Oden the pick, but I've given up on him materializing into a very good player, if that wasn't clear.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 10-28-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Yup I was really down on Oden, but really I feel bad for the guy and he hasn't really been able to prove himself because of the injuries. Still though all of those weaknesses I talked about before are even highlighted now whenever he comes back because I'm sure he lost a lot of that explosiveness which was his #1 asset as a player.

I think that's why he fouled so often in his rookie year. He was so much slower than before, and I don't think he was used to his body not being able to make the plays he once made.

SeanTaylorRIP · 10-28-2010, 06:58 PM

Here's the thing though, I feel like Oden was always overhyped because since since high school he was referred to as the next LeBron type prospect. He was good his Freshman year but you can argue that Conley, Cook, and Lewis were just as important to their team. Where as Kevin Durant was far and away the best player in the nation, as a Freshman. He put up numbers we hadn't seen in a very long time. Hell Durant averaged like over 2 rebounds a game more than Oden. I always said it but Oden was never a really skilled post player. His touch around the rim was not good. He also was attrocious passing out of the post. Greg Oden was a rare athlete, rare blend of size, strength, and athleticism. I never saw him as a rare talent. Kevin Durant however always was a rare talent. He was scoring at will any way he wanted to and people often overlook how good his post defense and rebounding was at Texas. Really I even saw Durant more of a 3/4 tweener in the NBA rather than a 2/3 tweener. I never said Oden would be bad, but I always said he'd be limited to like a 15+10 player while everyone was arguing with me that he was the next great big man and a potential HOF. Of course we will never know now, but I still take the stand that even hadn't he gotten hurt he wouldn't be better than Dwight Howard.

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 07:12 PM

I hope Dwight doesn't fall in love with his post moves (and that jumper he showed in the youtube video). He still needs to play to his strengths. Dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk. Overpower people in the post and **** on their face. I don't want to see him become a finesse player because he's had so many people telling him he needs to refine his post game.

Yes, being able to use a jump hook, a drop step, "the dream shake," etc would be awesome to have in your arsenal, but right now that is not his game. As he keeps working on that area I wouldn't mind seeing him become more of a post player, but he's still got work to do.

Alley oops, beasting both sides of the boards, dunking over people, put backs...Those are what his team really needs him to do. The rest is icing on the cake.

I hope he's working on his post passing as well because he'll find himself in trouble if he's not ready for a double team. I know he can find shooters, but I'd like to see him find cutters and curlers as well, ala Andrew Bogut.

I think the first step for Dwight is becoming more serious on the court. He says he's devoted to stopping the trick shots and the dancing. His focus has to improve each night. Then he can take the next step in his offensive game.

SeanTaylorRIP · 10-28-2010, 07:16 PM

Against guys like Perkins though and Shaq who can play him one on one he needs to at least have a decent grasp of that hook shot because he's proven to be unable to just back those guys down and slam it down. Regardless though it's time to get the man more touches. Stop jacking up 3's Orlando. He should have his way tonight with Yi and Javale, so I guess we'll see.

D-Unit · 10-28-2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetness34

I hope Dwight doesn't fall in love with his post moves (and that jumper he showed in the youtube video). He still needs to play to his strengths. Dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk. Overpower people in the post and **** on their face. I don't want to see him become a finesse player because he's had so many people telling him he needs to refine his post game.

Yes, being able to use a jump hook, a drop step, "the dream shake," etc would be awesome to have in your arsenal, but right now that is not his game. As he keeps working on that area I wouldn't mind seeing him become more of a post player, but he's still got work to do.

Alley oops, beasting both sides of the boards, dunking over people, put backs...Those are what his team really needs him to do. The rest is icing on the cake.

I hope he's working on his post passing as well because he'll find himself in trouble if he's not ready for a double team. I know he can find shooters, but I'd like to see him find cutters and curlers as well, ala Andrew Bogut.

I think the first step for Dwight is becoming more serious on the court. He says he's devoted to stopping the trick shots and the dancing. His focus has to improve each night. Then he can take the next step in his offensive game.

He'll dunk plenty. Not worried about that part of his game going away. However, his offensive game must improve outside of the dunk. It's imperative for him to take the next step. From the looks of those videos, his footwork and touch are fine. He needs to have confidence in himself, and when he's making his move, he must remember not to rush it. When he rushes his move, his timing and momentum will throw everything off and he'll throw up a brick.

Biggest thing is his FT shooting. Because in the playoffs, all the Celtics did when they were successful was throw bodies at him to put him at the line. No matter if he was close enough to dunk, they straight fouled him. This summer they tried to add more bigs to throw at him in Shaq and Jermaine. I know what they are trying to do... put him at the line. So if Dwight can make them pay and hit his shots, then he literally will be unstoppable.

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 07:26 PM

Andray Blatche has some of the worst shot selection in the league at times.

Hey, I'm open from 15, but I'll take two steps back and shoot a fade away. And he just shot another one.

Ugh, Rose is not a bad shooter you jackass. Do your research. Rondo on the other hand, yes.

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

He'll dunk plenty. Not worried about that part of his game going away. However, his offensive game must improve outside of the dunk. It's imperative for him to take the next step. From the looks of those videos, his footwork and touch are fine. He needs to have confidence in himself, and when he's making his move, he must remember not to rush it. When he rushes his move, his timing and momentum will throw everything off and he'll throw up a brick.

When he does it consistently in games then I'll believe it. Until that happens he can make the sickest moves in practice all he wants.

That said, when we played them in preseason he had two very nice spin moves to the baseline that he finished with jump hook.

D-Unit · 10-28-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetness34

When he does it consistently in games then I'll believe it. Until that happens he can make the sickest moves in practice all he wants.

That said, when we played them in preseason he had two very nice spin moves to the baseline that he finished with jump hook.

He's not going to have consistent success without going through his lumps, but he has to start somewhere. I think he's tried his best to improve in the offseason, so hopefully he takes another step forward.

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 07:36 PM

Man, Washington's defense is really bad right now. Ya might want to find Vince Carter behind the arc mmkay.

Nice patience and vision by Dwight in the post. Didn't force it with the double coming and made a nice skip pass.

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 07:40 PM

Brandon Bass...man beast.

JJ would've looked sooo good next to Rose at the 2. Once again, **** you Otis.

jayceheathman · 10-28-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetness34

Man, Washington's defense is really bad right now. Ya might want to find Vince Carter behind the arc mmkay.

Nice patience and vision by Dwight in the post. Didn't force it with the double coming and made a nice skip pass.

The worst defense ever was seen in the Houston vs Golden State game last night. There were 260 points scored in that game. They beat the over/under almost by the 3rd quarter.

D-Unit · 10-28-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetness34

Brandon Bass...man beast.

JJ would've looked sooo good next to Rose at the 2. Once again, **** you Otis.

Redick has become a fan favorite for Magic fans. To the point where they think he's now better than he really is. I used to like him when he was an underdog. Now that he's improved himself, now I think he's overrated (by our fans...I know most outsiders still think he sucks).

senormysterioso · 10-28-2010, 07:50 PM

Is it just me?

SeanTaylorRIP · 10-28-2010, 07:52 PM

WTF happened to Blatche. Take the fcking mid range jumper. Why is he hesitating and letting the defense close in. God no one is helping Wall. No one is flashing, when he's driving no one is looking to get the ball. This is pathetic.

sweetness34 · 10-28-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Redick has become a fan favorite for Magic fans. To the point where they think he's now better than he really is. I used to like him when he was an underdog. Now that he's improved himself, now I think he's overrated (by our fans...I know most outsiders still think he sucks).

I don't care if he's overrated or not. He can shoot, he can defend and he's underrated at getting to the hoop/running the point.

All we needed was a guy to take the pressure off Rose a bit and hit shots. Redick fit the bill, but Otis had to go and **** it up. Greedy Bastard. You didn't need him. :(

STRIP, now you know how Rose felt on a nightly basis last year in Vinny's offense of stagnation and why his assists were so low. No shooters, no cutters...just pick and roll and isolation. Washington's offense is painful to watch when Wall doesn't have the ball.

yo123 · 10-28-2010, 09:46 PM

Man I love Stan Van Gundy as a coach. They don't have let downs against bad teams, they just absolutely destroy them.

Da-Phins · 10-28-2010, 09:49 PM

Rockets giving up 130+ points made me wanna go find a ******* milf and use her tits as a punching bag.. I mean seriously how do you let any team score 130 on your ass? I miss the days when Van Gundy was the coach and our defense was always top ten. Since Adelmen been hired slowly but surely our defense has went downhill. I miss defense. :( And I miss you Van Gundy.