NBA Discussion Thread - Page 2172

SimonRath · 03-10-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

And hes mentally soft? yeah.

sooo.. everyone whos missed multiple last minute shots is mentally soft?

iowatreat54 · 03-10-2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Welcome to my world! I've been doing since before he signed with the Heat because people were just stupidly unreasonable when it came to LeBron.

Honestly, I wish I did like him. It would make this much easier.

Although, I will say for comparison, that I like LeBron a million times more than MJ. But that's just because MJ is a giant ******* asshole both on and off the court.

Does it hurt more having one guy constantly prevent you from winning, or to have one guy get your hopes unrealistically high only to spurn you?

I guess I'd say the latter, because even when the first guy wasn't playing the Knicks still couldn't win anything...

yourfavestoner · 03-10-2011, 10:29 AM

Excited for the game tonight, but I've got a funny feeling the Heat will win. Both teams have been streaking for too long. It's just the law of averages.

Heat are about to go through an absolute murderer's row on their schedule (right when Chicago is hitting an incredibly easy part of their schedule). Heat need to try and use this game tonight to reboot and go on a little run before the playoffs.

Shiver · 03-10-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Excited for the game tonight, but I've got a funny feeling the Heat will win. Both teams have been streaking for too long. It's just the law of averages.

Heat are about to go through an absolute murderer's row on their schedule (right when Chicago is hitting an incredibly easy part of their schedule). Heat need to try and use this game tonight to reboot and go on a little run before the playoffs.

They won't win until Mike Miller gets his stroke back and Chris Bosh gets his confidence. If they do that they could easily go on another run like they did in December. The Heat are desperate so they might pull it off, but with Andrew Bynum on a tear I have a hard time envisioning LA not winning.

As for home court, it will be crucial against Boston but if they Heat right the ship and play like they can (think DEC/JAN) they will beat Chicago, no doubt in my mind. In fact, I would rather play Chicago any day than Orlando if I'm the Heat. Plus there is always a chance that New York or Atlanta knocks off Chicago, which I think could happen. I'm with BBD, Chicago is a regular season paper tiger. Chicago is the new Cleveland to me: too reliant on one offensive player to win in the playoffs.

Brodeur · 03-10-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Here is my plan for Miami: fire Spoelestra after they lose to Boston, sign Samuel Dalembert to a MLE next season and hire Nate McMillan to be your head coach. Then move Dwyane Wade to his original position, point guard, where he was in 2003 and 2004. In free agency target young and unproven players rather than the undead they tried this year: Juwan Howard? Jerry Stackhouse? Jamaal Magloire? Eddie House?

PG - Dwyane Wade
SG - Mike Miller
SF - LeBron James
PF - Chris Bosh
C - Samuel Dalembert

6th man Udonis Haslem

McMillan just got an extension, so tell me how this makes sense.

yourfavestoner · 03-10-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

They won't win until Mike Miller gets his stroke back and Chris Bosh gets his confidence. If they do that they could easily go on another run like they did in December. The Heat are desperate so they might pull it off, but with Andrew Bynum on a tear I have a hard time envisioning LA not winning.

As for home court, it will be crucial against Boston but if they Heat right the ship and play like they can (think DEC/JAN) they will beat Chicago, no doubt in my mind. In fact, I would rather play Chicago any day than Orlando if I'm the Heat. Plus there is always a chance that New York or Atlanta knocks off Chicago, which I think could happen. I'm with BBD, Chicago is a regular season paper tiger. Chicago is the new Cleveland to me: too reliant on one offensive player to win in the playoffs.

The thing about Chicago is that the slowed-down tempo of the playoffs works in their favor and works against the Heat. They will only go as far as Derrick Rose can take the, though, and I do share doubts that they can make it far without a reliable second scoring option. However, if Thibs can turn their series into low-scoring slugfests (which is what most playoff series end up being) then they can do some real damage.

The playoffs this year are going to be so ******* awesome. I can't wait.

Shiver · 03-10-2011, 11:59 AM

Oh noes, my plan is ruined.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 03-10-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Here is my plan for Miami: fire Spoelestra after they lose to Boston, sign Samuel Dalembert to a MLE next season and hire Nate McMillan to be your head coach. Then move Dwyane Wade to his original position, point guard, where he was in 2003 and 2004. In free agency target young and unproven players rather than the undead they tried this year: Juwan Howard? Jerry Stackhouse? Jamaal Magloire? Eddie House?

PG - Dwyane Wade
SG - Mike Miller
SF - LeBron James
PF - Chris Bosh
C - Samuel Dalembert

6th man Udonis Haslem

I disagree with targeting young guys in FA. You look at the Celtics and how they did it, it was through older veterans. Guys like House, Posey, PJ Brown were instrumental in winning. How many huge shots did House knock down? Ditto for Posey and how great was his D? How many times did PJ Brown pull down a rebound when that's exactly what they needed? Young players are really unpredictable and the vast majority wouldn't know "the little things that win championships" if it hit them in the face. Veterans are still the answer IMO. They'll provide some stability and hopefully keep the whiners in line.

SimonRath · 03-10-2011, 12:09 PM

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46195

JOIN!

yourfavestoner · 03-10-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)

I disagree with targeting young guys in FA. You look at the Celtics and how they did it, it was through older veterans. Guys like House, Posey, PJ Brown were instrumental in winning. How many huge shots did House knock down? Ditto for Posey and how great was his D? How many times did PJ Brown pull down a rebound when that's exactly what they needed? Young players are really unpredictable and the vast majority wouldn't know "the little things that win championships" if it hit them in the face. Veterans are still the answer IMO. They'll provide some stability and hopefully keep the whiners in line.

Exactly. Playoff basketball is an old man's game.

thefalconer · 03-10-2011, 01:08 PM

kemba walker >>>>>> lebrick

Shiver · 03-10-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

The thing about Chicago is that the slowed-down tempo of the playoffs works in their favor and works against the Heat. They will only go as far as Derrick Rose can take the, though, and I do share doubts that they can make it far without a reliable second scoring option. However, if Thibs can turn their series into low-scoring slugfests (which is what most playoff series end up being) then they can do some real damage.

Chicago is the new Cleveland: slow tempo and defense, one superstar who carries the entire offensive load and a goofy looking Center who hustles and plays defense. It didn't work for Cleveland and I think LeBron and those teams were better.

By the way, anyone notice that DeAndre Jordan was an unstoppable force against the Celtics? That's the downside when you get rid of your only reliable interior defender. I have a feeling they are going to regret that trade mightily in the playoffs.

bigbluedefense · 03-10-2011, 01:35 PM

Boston was the runaway favorites in my eyes in the East until they traded Perkins.

Now I feel the East is wide open. That's why I think the Knicks have a puncher's chance to do some damage in the playoffs.

SickwithIt1010 · 03-10-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Chicago is the new Cleveland: slow tempo and defense, one superstar who carries the entire offensive load and a goofy looking Center who hustles and plays defense. It didn't work for Cleveland and I think LeBron and those teams were better.

By the way, anyone notice that DeAndre Jordan was an unstoppable force against the Celtics? That's the downside when you get rid of your only reliable interior defender. I have a feeling they are going to regret that trade mightily in the playoffs.

Those Cleveland teams didnt have the supporting cast that this Bulls team has. This Bulls team is better than those Cavs teams.

yo123 · 03-10-2011, 01:41 PM

Yeah Boozer, Noah, and Deng are all better than anyone other than Lebron on those Cavs teams...

Shiver · 03-10-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

Those Cleveland teams didnt have the supporting cast that this Bulls team has. This Bulls team is better than those Cavs teams.

The Bulls supporting cast isn't that great: Noah is a lot like Varejao, Mo Williams and Luol Deng are probably equivalent. Carlos Boozer would be the trump card, I guess, but we've seen him in the playoffs...

SickwithIt1010 · 03-10-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Not by a lot, they're the same at SG (terrible), have hustle Centers (Varejao and Noah) and a secondary scorer that plays horrible defense (Mo Williams and Carlos Boozer). So I guess Luol Deng is the trump card? And Derrick Rose is no LeBron James, by the way.

Noah is better than Varejao, Boozer is a better 2nd option than Mo Williams, Deng is a good compliment, and Rose is the MVP of this league right now.

They have a deeper/better bench as well with Gibson, Korver, Brewer etc.

RaiderNation · 03-10-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Chicago is the new Cleveland: slow tempo and defense, one superstar who carries the entire offensive load and a goofy looking Center who hustles and plays defense. It didn't work for Cleveland and I think LeBron and those teams were better.

You forgot to add Boozer. I think he will play a vital piece to the team and was what the Cavs missed was another reliable scorer downlow. For the Cavs it was just Lebron vs the other 5 guys on the floor most of the time

Brodeur · 03-10-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

Noah is better than Varejao, Boozer is a better 2nd option than Mo Williams, Deng is a good compliment, and Rose is the MVP of this league right now.

They have a deeper/better bench as well with Gibson, Korver, Brewer etc.

Noah's a much better overall player than Varejao, but he isn't really a better defender. And Rose still isn't the MVP dammit, it's either LeBron or Dwight or Dirk.

Shiver · 03-10-2011, 02:01 PM

Honestly it should be Dwight Howard, but he won't win it.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 03-10-2011, 02:05 PM

There was nothing fundamentally wrong with the Cavs approach. If you look at it this way, they somehow made the Finals despite being totally overmatched against Detroit. That's one. I think it was the next year when Boston won it all, it was a tight game 7. A game 7 without Boobie, who was one of the best 3 point shooters in the league that year. If he was there, there's a possibility the Cavs upset Boston. The next year against Orlando, it was insane, literally every player on the Magic had the best series of their career. Dwight Howard was hitting FTs. Turkoglu was knocking down insane shots with a hand in his face. Lewis was cold blooded clutch. Pietrus nailed practically every corner 3 he took, whether he was open or not. The next year, LeBron has the worst playoff game in his career in game 5 against Boston and Cavs can't recover. Especially against Orlando, Cavs just ran into some **** luck. It's unbelievable how far over their heads Orlando played that series. I didn't even mention Rafer Alston. Or Delonte West getting tackled in game 4 with no call that would have won the game. There was nothing fundamentally wrong with that model at all, it easily could have worked. And the Bulls have that going right now.

JETS5128 · 03-10-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

The Bulls supporting cast isn't that great: Noah is a lot like Varejao, Mo Williams and Luol Deng are probably equivalent. Carlos Boozer would be the trump card, I guess, but we've seen him in the playoffs...

Noah>Varejao at everything, literally

Boozer> any 2nd scoring option the Cavs ever had

Deng> any perimeter defender the Cavs had

Not to mention the bulls bench is also significantly better than those Cav's teams

You guys are severely under-estimating this bulls team, if they are healthy come playoff time I would pen them into the ECF's. Rose is an animal, Booz can score at will on the block, and Noah is a defensive anchor. Not to mention they are one of the 3 best defensive teams in the league

These guys are alot closer to being the Lakers of the East than the Cavs. Boozer isn't quite Pau, Bynum and Noah are pretty similar players and Rose is coming into his own as an elite baller. What they are missing is an X-factor like Lamar Odom, which is why i dont think they are quite ready to contend for a championship

sweetness34 · 03-10-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

The Bulls supporting cast isn't that great: Noah is a lot like Varejao, Mo Williams and Luol Deng are probably equivalent. Carlos Boozer would be the trump card, I guess, but we've seen him in the playoffs...

There are some similarities. Both are damn good defensive teams (although our defense is just flat out dominant right now). Both rely on one player to create offense. Both lack a second 'star.'

That said, Cleveland severely lacked a front court and that is our strength. Interior defense and rebounding are keys in the playoffs and we thrive in those areas. We don't have the perimeter shooting that those Cleveland teams did though and that can hurt us because teams tend to either pack the paint, shade Rose or play zone. Korver is really our only big time shooter outside of Rose. Cleveland had shooters everywhere.

It's true that we'll go as far as Derrick takes us, but I do think he has help. It may not be offensive help, but defensively and rebounding (second chance opportunities) wise he has help and it puts him in positions to win. You don't get to 20+ games over .500 by yourself. Derrick is an MVP candidate because he's the most valuable player on an elite team, but he has not carried this team the entire year.

I still have doubts about our ability to go all the way. Our offense can bog down and if Derrick doesn't have it going we struggle to score points. We also don't have an immense amount of talent and we tend to play down to competition too much.

That said, we have had a great regular season so far and haven't been healthy outside of 17 games. We have a solid record against elite competition and we hold home court extremely well. I really like our chances if we get the #1 seed. My optimism goes down if we don't have home court advantage (we're only 4 games above .500 on the road).

sweetness34 · 03-10-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Honestly it should be Dwight Howard, but he won't win it.

I agree with this, but the formula for voting doesn't add up in his favor. Unless he jumps Rose in the standings it's not going to happen.

Plus, Rose has a lot of steam going his way right now and that is a large variable in his corner. MJ called him the MVP yesterday so barring a complete collapse it's his to lose right now.

Frankly, I'd rather him not win it and go nuts in the post season, but I can't say it wouldn't be awesome to see him get the award. It's crazy how far his game has come in 2 1/2 seasons.

sweetness34 · 03-10-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Chicago is the new Cleveland: slow tempo and defense, one superstar who carries the entire offensive load and a goofy looking Center who hustles and plays defense. It didn't work for Cleveland and I think LeBron and those teams were better.

By the way, anyone notice that DeAndre Jordan was an unstoppable force against the Celtics? That's the downside when you get rid of your only reliable interior defender. I have a feeling they are going to regret that trade mightily in the playoffs.

Also, Cleveland did better in uptempo settings. They bogged down when the tempo slowed. Why do you think everyone was calling for Shaq to be benched? He slowed the game down and clogged the lane. LeBron feasts in the open floor (same thing with Miami).

Our style of play is completely opposite. We like to limit possessions and play defense. We'll get out and run every once in a while, but the majority of our offense sets use the duration of the shot clock. We are truly a half court team.

Right now we are grinding out games. It's not pretty, but the job is getting done and that's what we'll have to do in the playoffs. We give a new definition to the term winning ugly.