NBA Discussion Thread - Page 2206

fenikz · 05-06-2011, 11:50 PM

...Bill ******* Russell what is wrong with you people

yo123 · 05-07-2011, 12:03 AM

Kobe is around 7th. I'd put MJ, Bill Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, and Kareem ahead of him. Guys like Shaq and Tim Duncan have good arguments as well. No way is he the second best player ever.

CrankthatCrabtree · 05-07-2011, 12:11 AM

Russell, Bird and Kareem to add to that list

yo123 · 05-07-2011, 12:15 AM

I literally included all three of them.

CrankthatCrabtree · 05-07-2011, 12:18 AM

Ya, sorry...clicked last post and it just took me to your last post on the previous page.

In regards to your new list...I would likely put Timmy D ahead of Kobe and agree that Shaq and him may be too close to call. Although Shaq was def more dominant

tuan33 · 05-07-2011, 01:06 AM

I don't see how you could put the most dominate player in NBA history lower than kobe. To tell the truth, if I could pick a player for one season, it'd have to be shaq over MJ. The man was just unguardable and he was a better defender than people give him credit for.

SickwithIt1010 · 05-07-2011, 01:33 AM

Duncan isnt better than Kobe, enough said.

Kobe definitely isnt 2nd right now and prolly never will be.

My number 2 is Magic, and I know I might get slammed for saying this, but had he not gotten the HIV virus he could have very well gone down as the best player ever.....yeah I said it.

Docta · 05-07-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuan33

I don't see how you could put the most dominate player in NBA history lower than kobe. To tell the truth, if I could pick a player for one season, it'd have to be shaq over MJ. The man was just unguardable and he was a better defender than people give him credit for.

Don't be ignorant. Shaq is limited, while MJ could score from anywhere on the court. Opposing teams actually wanted Shaq to be on the court in the last few minutes, just for the reason that they'd be able to foul him.

yo123 · 05-07-2011, 01:37 AM

I love when people bring up people possible being better than MJ, I don't know if it's just ignorance or for the sake of being different but no. Jordan is the best player ever and it's not even an argument.

SickwithIt1010 · 05-07-2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

I love when people bring up people possible being better than MJ, I don't know if it's just ignorance or for the sake of being contrarian but no. Jordan is the best player ever and it's not even an argument.

I said he was, however I stand by my statement. So....sorry bout it.

yo123 · 05-07-2011, 01:43 AM

Whether you stand by it or not is irrelevant it's wrong. I'm sure you being a Laker fan has nothing to do with it.

Jordan in his prime was elite at everything you want in an NBA SG other than 3 point shooting. Nothing Magic could have done after the HIV would have come close to him. The only thing he did better was playmaking for others and Jordan was great at that too. MJ being tons better as a scorer and defender makes up for that and much more.

SickwithIt1010 · 05-07-2011, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Whether you stand by it or not is irrelevant it's wrong. I'm sure you being a Laker fan has nothing to do with it.

Jordan in his prime was elite at everything you want in an NBA SG other than 3 point shooting. Nothing Magic could have done after the HIV would have come close to him. The only thing he did better was playmaking for others and Jordan was great at that too. MJ being tons better as a scorer and defender makes up for that and much more.

Its prolly wrong in quite a few peoples' eyes, but I really dont give a ****.

Just like every person in the world who has been a basketball fan, MJ was my favorite player in his prime. But Magic's game was not comparable to anyone who has ever played the game of basketball. A PG at 6'9" who was the best passer, best scorer, best at everything at his position. He was impossible to guard because he was too quick to be guarded by a 3 or a 4, and way too big to be guarded by a 1 or 2.

He could go off for 20 assists in any given game, and if he really wanted to could go off for 40 points. Just like MJ, Magic was unguardable, he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. Me being a Laker fan has nothing to do with my opinion. Its just being a basketball fan, so you can swallow that idea.

So once again.....sorry bout it.

tuan33 · 05-07-2011, 03:04 AM

Bah my reply got deleted but here's the TDLR of it cause I don't want to write it again.

1. A big is easier to build around
2. A big's defense affects the game more than a perimeter
3. Shaq needed to be tripled and double teamed every time in his prime.
4. I don't care where my points come from whether it's FTs or 2/3 pointers. I'd take 57% anytime.
5. Shaq had the most dominate finals I've seen in 99-00. He averaged 38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds and 2.67 blocks .
6. I'd take Shaq if it was one season but career wise it has be to be Jordan.

tuan33 · 05-07-2011, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

Don't be ignorant. Shaq is limited, while MJ could score from anywhere on the court. Opposing teams actually wanted Shaq to be on the court in the last few minutes, just for the reason that they'd be able to foul him.

Limited? What do you want him to do play like Dirk? Take jumpers? Why go for a lower percentage shot when a dunk is about 99.9% to go in. His job was the pound the paint and he was the best I've ever seen at that.

Docta · 05-07-2011, 04:24 AM

It doesn't matter if a big is easier to build around in this situation. The player you are building around is MJ. You're only focusing on Shaq's strengths, and you're underestimating MJ's.

Nalej · 05-07-2011, 10:05 AM

The arguement of Magic VS MJ is being solely looked at from the offensive end.
The reason Jordan goes down as the greatest isn't his 30ppg career avg and his dunk contrest trophies.
It's that coupled with his DPOY and 9-time 1st team All-Defense

tuan33 · 05-07-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

It doesn't matter if a big is easier to build around in this situation. The player you are building around is MJ. You're only focusing on Shaq's strengths, and you're underestimating MJ's.

Under estimating his strength? He's probably the top 2 greatest perimeter defender and top 10 offensive player. There's no underestimating MJ but you're acting like he's unstoppable. Payton, Lewis, and the knicks have all slowed/stopped him. Prime Shaq though was unguardable.

yo123 · 05-07-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

The arguement of Magic VS MJ is being solely looked at from the offensive end.
The reason Jordan goes down as the greatest isn't his 30ppg career avg and his dunk contrest trophies.
It's that coupled with his DPOY and 9-time 1st team All-Defense

Not to mention the insane efficiency. He had a 5 year stretch where he averaged over 30 a game on over 51% shooting. You won't ever see that from a guard again. Ever.

It makes me so sad that I have to argue this.

tuan33 · 05-07-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Not to mention the insane efficiency. He had a 5 year stretch where he averaged over 30 a game on over 51% shooting. You won't ever see that from a guard again. Ever.

It makes me so sad that I have to argue this.

Only way for a guard to score like that is be to a slasher like Wade. Wade is pretty much early Jordan-lite. He doesn't have the length of Jordan so he wouldn't be as effective. Also the scoring over 30 a game back in the 80's is different from how it is now. The game is slower now than it was in Jordan's prime years. From 85-95 the league average for points was from 101-110 points per game and now it's around 97 points per game.
This maybe due to players being less skilled now than they were then but it's harder to score 30 now than it was back when Jordan was doing.

yo123 · 05-07-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuan33

Only way for a guard to score like that is be to a slasher like Wade. Wade is pretty much early Jordan-lite. He doesn't have the length of Jordan so he wouldn't be as effective. Also the scoring over 30 a game back in the 80's is different from how it is now. The game is slower now than it was in Jordan's prime years. From 85-95 the league average for points was from 101-110 points per game and now it's around 97 points per game.
This maybe due to players being less skilled now than they were then but it's harder to score 30 now than it was back when Jordan was doing.

No way it's harder now with the tightened handchecking rules. MJ would score 35 a game every year with today's rules.

CrankthatCrabtree · 05-07-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

No way it's harder now with the tightened handchecking rules. MJ would score 35 a game every year with today's rules.

That is def one of the most overlooked points when people compare MJ to Kobe

tuan33 · 05-07-2011, 05:08 PM

It's harder now because the pace of the game is slower than in Jordan's heyday. Did you ever watch the show time lakers and how fast they moved the ball up the court? Less possessions per game=less chance to score. So while I don't doubt he'd be a leading scorer, he wouldn't be able to jack up 35-37 points a game and it not be detrimental to his team winning.

LonghornsLegend · 05-07-2011, 05:23 PM

I'm glad Dirk has been giving Tyson Chandler alot of love lately. I've been bitching and moaning about trading for Chandler for 2 years in the NBA discussion thread every time an off-season or trade deadline approached. Granted he is getting the business by Bynum who is an absolute stud but his defense, rebounding, and defensive presence is what we lacked in the Finals vs Miami.

Plus our depth has really come to play. Peja is just clutch, lots of playoff experience and big shot experience. It excites me that the winner of the OKC/Memphis series is gonna be the inexperienced and younger team in comparison.

One of the more exciting playoff games I've watched in years last night. Big shot after big shot, nobody led by more then 8 all the way through.

yo123 · 05-07-2011, 05:29 PM

OKC looks really tough. They don't even need Westbrook and Durant to go off the way some of their supporting guys are playing. Ibaka has taken his game to a new level and the scary part is he's only ******* 21 years old. The thing that held them back last year is interior defense but with Ibaka/Perk/and Collison who has been great throughout the playoffs that's now another strength. I have them over the Bulls in the championship.

LonghornsLegend · 05-07-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

OKC looks really tough. They don't even need Westbrook and Durant to go off the way some of their supporting guys are playing. Ibaka has taken his game to a new level and the scary part is he's only ******* 21 years old. The thing that held them back last year is interior defense but with Ibaka/Perk/and Collison who has been great throughout the playoffs that's now another strength. I have them over the Bulls in the championship.

I have OKC over the Heat atm. Don't know if Rose is enough to stop the way the Heat are playing. OKC is a much better team then the Mavs also, all I'm really banking on is the experience factor and hope it gives a slight advantage.

But the interior defense has picked up a ton which was the missing link. If Harden can continue to play big they'll be tough to beat. I'd love to see Durant win a ring.