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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:48 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
In far more minutes played per game, yes. Look at the per 36 numbers

Gasol:
Pts 14.0
Reb 10.0
Stl 1.0
Ast 2.7
Blk 2.1

Cousins:
Pts 18.5
Reb 13.6
Stl 1.4
Ast 1.1
Blk 1.7

Gasol PER: 19.9
Gasol USG: 17.7
Cousins PER: 20.3
Cousins USG: 26.4

Cousins SMOKES Gasol in points and rebounds, and has a slight edge on steals while Gasol has the slight edge on blocks. That leaves only assists in which Gasol has the edge. Cousins has the slightly better PER with the much higher usage percentage which is a feather in Cousins' cap. As you should know, when usage goes up, efficiency generally goes down. That Cousins is able to maintain such a high PER with a usage rate significantly higher than Gasol is big plus.
You didn't address the fact that Gasol is a MUCH MUCH better defender. And Cousins has insane foul issues and turns the ball over at a ridiculous rate (for a big man) while Gasol is one of the only centers capable of playing 38 minutes per game in the NBA with no problem. Plus, Gasol has played next to Dante Cunningham and Marreese Speights for most of the year with Z-Bo and his main backup (Arthur) out.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
You didn't address the fact that Gasol is a MUCH MUCH better defender. And Cousins has insane foul issues and turns the ball over at a ridiculous rate (for a big man) while Gasol is one of the only centers capable of playing 38 minutes per game in the NBA with no problem. Plus, Gasol has played next to Dante Cunningham and Marreese Speights for most of the year with Z-Bo and his main backup (Arthur) out.
This is what grasping for straws looks like.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
This is what grasping for straws looks like.
Grasping for straws? Umm, alright. He's a better defender, passer, doesn't foul and turn the ball over at an absurd rate, and if you want to look at advanced stats, Gasol's Roland Rating is +14.6 to Cousins' +0.5.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Grasping for straws? Umm, alright. He's a better defender, passer, doesn't foul and turn the ball over at an absurd rate, and if you want to look at advanced stats, Gasol's Roland Rating is +14.6 to Cousins' +0.5.
It's okay Brodeur, you keep playing with your little numbers and i'll keep watching games.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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This is what grasping for straws looks like.
Did you just spit in the face of someone and their opinion without so much as a proper counter-argument?

I mean, you would've had some ground to stand on if you used the 'potential' approach, saying Cousins could definitely improve in those categories listed, or you could've gone out of your way to debunk them using whatever method you work with best... but that's the best you've got?
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Let me break down the meat of this post as to not assume you're just looking at box scores as far as his usage rates go.

A lot of his missed attempts come from tip-in attempts (hence his league leading offensive rebounding numbers), so naturally his FG% will dip. He has shot extremely better in the last four or five games, and is scoring at a much more efficient rate. He rarely takes jump shots unless it's late in the shotclock (and the Kings "offense" does this extremely often since everyone is just looking to take people off the dribble, forcing guys into bad shooting situations), and so he's forced to put the ball up. The majority of the time he's getting the ball in the low block.

His foul issues stem from two main things, and ironically they're the complete opposite of one another. He gets a lot of fouls because he plays really aggressive help defense. He is Anderson Varejao-like in how many charges he tries to take, and sometimes he doesn't get the calls to go his way. A player of his caliber shouldn't be doing that, there's a reason why the scrappers off the bench do that, because you can't afford to risk getting the blocking foul called. Sometimes he's overly aggressive in his block attempts, and given his huge frame, he'll get a lot of contact and he isn't the superstar yet to get most of the calls his way.

The other reason would be laziness on man to man defense. When he's beaten by a smaller guard on help defense, he'll swipe at the ball, or make a last ditch effort to get a steal, and 80% of those are called against him. He needs to improve his footwork so he doesn't get taken out of position, or where he can trail the ball better without having to make cheap fouls. This is quite a simple thing to improve, and again, under Smart, he has gotten a lot better at this. He has dipped into some heavy minutes recently because he has stayed free of foul trouble.

Where i have to disagree with you and say you're completely wrong is when you say he's a black hole. He definitely isn't a Tyreke Evans black hole where the ball and the offense seems to disappear when it's in his hands. The ball rarely moves through him on offense, and a lot of his scores are due to his own hard work in the paint. His rebounding offensively is off the charts good, and when the ball is down in the low block, what do you expect him to do? He's given the ball in that position to score, so that's what he does. I'm really not sure why you say he's a black hole, i'd really like it if you elaborated further on that point.
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Originally Posted by Zycho32 View Post
Did you just spit in the face of someone and their opinion without so much as a proper counter-argument?

I mean, you would've had some ground to stand on if you used the 'potential' approach, saying Cousins could definitely improve in those categories listed, or you could've gone out of your way to debunk them using whatever method you work with best... but that's the best you've got?
Well, there's that. And i'm trolling Brodeur, so there's that as well. Also, don't just swing by once in a while in the middle of a discussion and pretend you know what's going on. Go read the last two or three pages.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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It's okay Brodeur, you keep playing with your little numbers and i'll keep watching games.
I DO watch the games, and I know I'd take Gasol this season every single time over DeMarcus (and not just because he's handsome).
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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I love Cousins, but id take Gasol over him every time as well. At least right now. Gasol is the 3rd best center in the league and is close to being 2nd imo.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Blake over Kevin Love? Goddammit come on.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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All i said originally was that at the very least he should be in consideration, and obviously we've done a good job making a case for him. Offensively Cousins is superior and his rebounding is in the top five in the NBA, probably only third to Howard and Love. I'd take that over defense and passing ability. This isn't the Rick Adelman Kings, we don't need passing big men.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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I hope both teams give a damn and put some effort into this all-star game. The lineups are pretty kick-ass.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Can Greg Monroe make the All Star team over Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, and Roy Hibbert?
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Shaq should not be an Analyst. He's like Barkley if Barkley didn't bother to watch the tape.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Blake over Kevin Love? Goddammit come on.
Numbers wise he shouldnt be trailing anyone for sure. Thing is there really is no end in sight because short of the T-Wolves winning big Love is always going to be behind Blake and Durant at the forward positions.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Ernie has the best lists of the 5 on the panel.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Ernie has the best lists of the 5 on the panel.
He's usually the only sober one.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Blake over Kevin Love? Goddammit come on.
Silly Brody, u know basketball in the west doesn't exist outside of LA.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Shaq should not be an Analyst. He's like Barkley if Barkley didn't bother to watch the tape.
He's like Barkley if Barkley weren't funny, charismatic, knowledgeable, and interesting.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Ive always loved Shaq, but thats been in small doses. He's pretty brutal when overexposed like he is on these shows.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Ugh, Blake is so overrated.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Blake is awesome, but hes no better than the 3rd best PF right now imo. He's tons of fun to watch though.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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Amare crossover awesomeness
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
Wootylicous
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Kyle Korver!!
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:55 PM    (permalink
soybean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
I hope both teams give a damn and put some effort into this all-star game. The lineups are pretty kick-ass.
not really, I think the East starters are going to smash on the West ones.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:04 PM    (permalink
soybean
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Blake over Kevin Love? Goddammit come on.
All star games are popularity contests... what do you expect? Would you rather see Blake Griffin dunk or Kevin Love Rebound?

Now what you want is for Kevin Love to make the NBA all second team. That'll be the true prize for the Kevin Love > Blake Griffin debate.

Last edited by soybean : 02-02-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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