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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
Yes 623421 100.00%
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Why does the conversation keep coming back to the opinion of the media? Who cares? Why do we have to hold them in such high regard?

The much more interesting argument is who WILL end up being a better player not who the talking heads tell us is.
Because most "best player ever" arguments tend to devolve into arguments of "greatness," which is largely narrative-based.

Best and greatest are not mutually exclusive, which is why these arguments get stupid.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Well, fine, I think that competent basketball fans will view Lebron as the better player when it's all said and done.
The only fans who will feel this way are ones who are too young to remember Jordan in his prime.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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The only fans who will feel this way are ones who are too young to remember Jordan in his prime.
You're just saying that because he prevented Ewing from ever winning a ring.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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The only fans who will feel this way are ones who are too young to remember Jordan in his prime.
Everyone here only bring arguments from his 2nd 3-peat.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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You're just saying that because he prevented Ewing from ever winning a ring.
Everyone on the planet that's 28+ years old feels the same way I do.

Jordan wasn't just the greatest player of all time, but he forever changed how the game of basketball was played (for worse actually). He shaped an entire generation of players who modeled their games after his.

No one is building their game around LeBron's. Jordan transcended the sport.

There will never be another Michael Jordan. Kids who never saw him play in their life line up outside of stores to buy his shoes.

No one will ever impact the game like he did.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Everyone here only bring arguments from his 2nd 3-peat.
I honestly can't believe we're even having this argument.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Everyone on the planet that's 28+ years old feels the same way I do.

Jordan wasn't just the greatest player of all time, but he forever changed how the game of basketball was played (for worse actually). He shaped an entire generation of players who modeled their games after his.

No one is building their game around LeBron's. Jordan transcended the sport.

There will never be another Michael Jordan. Kids who never saw him play in their life line up outside of stores to buy his shoes.

No one will ever impact the game like he did.
Again, I don't think Lebron is ever going to get to MJ's level, but this is just more romanticized nonsense that doesn't measure how good he was on the court. It measures how impactful he was. Little kids trying to play like him doesn't make him better, it makes him more of an icon.

Allen Iverson was one of the most impactful players of the generation and he doesn't belong anywhere near these conversations. Tim Duncan is the best PF of all time, most kids aren't trying to model their game after his.

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Old 04-18-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't think I have seen realistic fans say Lebron is the greatest ever NOW. As a matter of fact, right now I'd put Kobe closer to MJ than Lebron. I just don't think you can rule him out being the greatest ever when it is all said and done at the end of his career. If he stays healthy like he has so far in his career, the #'s he will put up in an 18+ year career like Kobe has had will be unheard of at that point.

I think it really begins this year. If the Heat win the championship, and then have a chance at 3 peat - he is heading right towards being the best ever. He was blessed a lot more than Jordan naturally, but his work ethic is just as good as Jordan. That is why he will be the greatest ever when it is all said and done with the track he is on at the moment.....that time is not now obviously.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Again, I don't think Lebron is ever going to get to MJ's level, but this is just more romanticized nonsense that doesn't measure how good he was on the court. It measures how impactful he was. Little kids trying to play like him doesn't make him better, it makes him more of an icon.

Allen Iverson was one of the most impactful players of the generation and he doesn't belong anywhere near these conversations.
Jordan was better on the court. You don't get to his iconic stature without being ridiculously good.

LeBron is going to be a top 5 player of all time, but even as good as he's been, I haven't seen him take over in the playoffs the same way Jordan did.

When LeBron has a monster playoff game it's newsworthy. When Jordan did it was just another day at the office.

Dude, I'm a Knicks fan. I've seen this guy t-bag my favorite team every friggin year over and over again, I know how good Jordan was.

You know the difference btw Jordan and Lebron? When Jordan was in his prime, he never failed. LeBron did. Numerous times.

That's what makes Jordan so special. We never got to see him fail during his prime. He won every time. How many athletes can say that?
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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You know the difference btw Jordan and Lebron? When Jordan was in his prime, he never failed. LeBron did. Numerous times.

Was Lebron in his prime? 2 Years ago, You can say that against Dallas. I won't disagree. He failed.

All his other "failures" he was 22-25 years old and Jordan failed plenty of times at that age. Lebron led the Cavs to the finals when he had Gibson as his sidekick.

This part of your argument is very flawed. You can not just throw aside the fact that LeBron came into the league when he was 18!
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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It's a different era now. Coming in the league at that age was unheard of when Jordan played. Players played 4 years of college. That's just how it was back then, college basketball and programs meant a lot more then.

I mean...LeBron won ONE title. Lost 2 championships. We can't even start having this conversation until he wins at least 3 more.

And I still don't see it. Because even if he succeeds more than Jordan, he's already failed more than him.

That's what people are missing. What makes Jordan so special is that he never failed. That's what's so iconic about his career, and it's something no one will ever replicate. The man was unbeatable in his prime.

Ewing, Malone, Payton, Barkley, Reggie, Stockton, the list of HOF players who never won a ring bc of Jordan is incredible. Who else can put that on their resume?

Jordan can put together a whole team of HOFers who couldn't win a ring bc Jordan got in their way.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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nets better beat at least the bulls. just one round. plz

sorry da bears, love you but I need this
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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No, we need the Bulls to win. They'll lose to the Heat, but they'll beat them up a little bit and soften em up before the ECF.

The Heat would harlem shake all over the Nets and win every game by 20 in a sweep.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Lawrence Frank was fired.. Pistons have gone through soooo many coaches. In the past 10 years we've had Rick Carlisle, Larry Brown, Flip Saunders, Michael Curry, John Kuester, and Lawrence Frank. Six coaches in 10 years isn't very good. Hopefully we can hold on to our next coach for more than 2 years.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I want to see how Lebron's game changes as he gets older. I know he's not that old right now, but with his size I don't see him pulling the Jordan/Kobe postup to the jump shot as they get older.

He's the most physically gifted player the league has ever seen, so I feel like the ways he can go are endless, which is why it will be interesting to see how his game evolves over the next 5-7 years.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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No, we need the Bulls to win. They'll lose to the Heat, but they'll beat them up a little bit and soften em up before the ECF.

The Heat would harlem shake all over the Nets and win every game by 20 in a sweep.
You don't want to see this happen to the Nets?

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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God really does hate Cleveland.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/91...-scott-sources
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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It's a different era now. Coming in the league at that age was unheard of when Jordan played. Players played 4 years of college. That's just how it was back then, college basketball and programs meant a lot more then.

I mean...LeBron won ONE title. Lost 2 championships. We can't even start having this conversation until he wins at least 3 more.

And I still don't see it. Because even if he succeeds more than Jordan, he's already failed more than him.

That's what people are missing. What makes Jordan so special is that he never failed. That's what's so iconic about his career, and it's something no one will ever replicate. The man was unbeatable in his prime.

Ewing, Malone, Payton, Barkley, Reggie, Stockton, the list of HOF players who never won a ring bc of Jordan is incredible. Who else can put that on their resume?

Jordan can put together a whole team of HOFers who couldn't win a ring bc Jordan got in their way.
Jordan failed plenty early in his career. It's just people don't remember it because of how much he accomplished.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlwUFA5Sric

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Coples is that dude.
Go Amare.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dabears10 View Post
Everyone here only bring arguments from his 2nd 3-peat.
Horace Grant with the Bulls > Bosh with the Heat. That good enough?
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Jordan failed plenty early in his career. It's justspeople don't remember it because of how much he accomplished.
Exactly. Meanwhile, LeBron is quinessentially penalized for being the runner up two times

That's akin to if Jordan brought one of the earlier bulls teams to tjw finals and lost. His 6-0 record would have been tarnished despite winning MORE.

Also, LeBron just got into his prime a little over a year ago. Hr has imrpved immensely since arriving in Miami.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
Forenci
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The thing about Jordan is many people have selective memory. They forget he didn't have early success, like LeBron, they forget what a complete asshole/douche bag he was. LeBron is far more likable than Jordan ever will be.

If LeBron goes on to win 6 rings and more MVP's no one will give a crap about his early failures.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Simmons trade value list is ******* atrocious, Jesus.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Heat over Bucks in 5. Eh, I am just being generous that it isn't a sweep.
Bulls over Nets in 6. Tho I hope I am wrong cuz I want a really easy run!
Pacers over Hawks in 5. Come on, its the Hawks.
Knicks over Celtics in 7. The Celtics will not go down easy.
Thunder over Rockets in 5. Harden gets a game at home.
Clippers over Grizzlies in 7. I have no idea here, this should be a good series. Clips have home court.
Nuggets over Warriors in 4. I got to pick a sweep and I am really pulling for the Nuggets in the west cuz of Karl, seems like a great dude.
Spurs over Lakers in 7. Once again, its the Lakers, they aren't going down without a fight.

Heat over Bulls in 5. Come on, we all know I am picking the Heat right?
Knicks over Pacers in 7. This is gonna be a good series to see who loses to the Heat in 6.
Thunder over Clippers in 6. Good series, but the I just don't see the Thunder losing until the finals.
Nuggets over Spurs in 6. The Nuggets run the old guys out of the playoffs.

Heat over Knicks in 6. Melo can't score 50 and they can't hit 20 three pointers four times in two weeks.
Thunder over Nuggets in 7. This is a good series, but I think the starless Nuggets fall to the Thunder because of their star (KD)

Heat over Thunder in 6. Eh, nobody is prolly reading this anymore cuz they knew how it was gonna end up.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Simmons trade value list is ******* atrocious, Jesus.
What's so bad about it?
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