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Old 05-14-2013, 01:49 AM    (permalink
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Just for shits and giggles. Nothing better to do on a non GSW night. (RIP 12-13 Thunder)



1. Chris Paul
2. Stephen Curry
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Tony Parker
5. Rajon Rondo
6. Derrick Rose
7. Kyrie Irving
8. Deron Williams (if he continues his revival)
9. John Wall
10. Mike Conley
11. Ty Lawson
12. Ricky Rubio
13. Jrue Holiday
14. Damian Lillard
15. Kemba Walker
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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So many quality PG's in the NBA now.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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And that's after some pretty solid guys got left out. Calderon, Isaiah Thomas, George Hill, Kyle Lowry, and Brandon Jennings (hate everything about his game but he had some decent stats for a playoff team).
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I mean, technically it makes sense since there are a lot more shorter guys in the world so it would make sense there is a lot of good PGs. Still, it makes me depressed to realize how many terrible bigs there are these.

I'd hate to even look at a top 15 for centers.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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I really dislike the guy, but I think Rondo has to vault to #2 when healthy.


And yes, the fact that all these quality PG's have no big men to go to is depressing.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Yeah, I mean, technically it makes sense since there are a lot more shorter guys in the world so it would make sense there is a lot of good PGs. Still, it makes me depressed to realize how many terrible bigs there are these.

I'd hate to even look at a top 15 for centers.
Oh gosh... True centers? i.e. not PFs pretending to be Cs (like Tim Duncan or Greg Monroe)?

1. Dwight Howard
2. Joakim Noah
3. Marc Gasol
4. Roy Hibbert
5. Demarcus Cousins
6. Andrew Bogut
7. Omer Asik
8. Brook Lopez
9. Tyson Chandler
10. Al Horford (not really true center)

Yikes. That's so so so patchy just as it is. And I'm just as inclined to put Cousins at 9 or 10 as 5.

If we are talking about true centers, you can probably chop the list off after 9 and that's a list of true starting centers in the league right now.

*Edit - there are others like Perkins but he can't even get 19 minutes a game.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:14 AM    (permalink
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Meh, I'm not a big Rondo fan. His offensive game is so limited. I've also thought his assists were overrated a bit too when you compare them to how many times he's turning the ball over. Paul can put up those assists with about 2 less turn overs per game.

That and he's a massive tool and is not very coachable.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Yeah, I mean, technically it makes sense since there are a lot more shorter guys in the world so it would make sense there is a lot of good PGs. Still, it makes me depressed to realize how many terrible bigs there are these.

I'd hate to even look at a top 15 for centers.
Right, it makes sense, but seven, eight years ago it wasn't as deep as it is now. My PG list has 7, potentially 9 franchise level guys with five being good enough to be all-nba without a huge argument. That's insane.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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Oh gosh... True centers? i.e. not PFs pretending to be Cs (like Tim Duncan or Greg Monroe)?

1. Dwight Howard
2. Joakim Noah
3. Marc Gasol
4. Roy Hibbert
5. Demarcus Cousins
6. Andrew Bogut
7. Omer Asik
8. Brook Lopez
9. Tyson Chandler
10. Al Horford (not really true center)
.
Oh wow. It's even worse than I thought when written out into a list.


I agree that Rondo is a tool, but his offensive game is improving a lot. He actually has a decent 15-18 foot jump shot when he doesn't think about it and just shoots. I've witnessed him catch fire quite a few times. When you talk about court vision, Rondo's is second to none. I don't think his assists are as overrated as you say and he can slash to the rim whenever he chooses. His defense is legit, and he runs that team on offense like a true floor general. He is still a dbag.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:21 AM    (permalink
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Meh, I'm not a big Rondo fan. His offensive game is so limited. I've also thought his assists were overrated a bit too when you compare them to how many times he's turning the ball over. Paul can put up those assists with about 2 less turn overs per game.

That and he's a massive tool and is not very coachable.
He's a career 48% shooter on offense and has greatly improved on that end of the floor from the days where you didn't have to guard him. He has elite court vision and passing ability to go along with elite rebounding for a PG, and very good man and off-ball defense. The turnovers do worry me to a certain extent, since he does try to get too fancy with his passes sometimes. But he's very much an elite PG in the NBA.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:24 AM    (permalink
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Oh wow. It's even worse than I thought when written out into a list.
Oh yeah... So bad...

Although there is some younger talent. Drummond could really jump up that list if he can come back from injury and be as effective in more minutes. Cousins could jump up if he can get his head out of his ass--give it another 5 years and 3 teams maybe. Omer Asik and Brook Lopez would make a very nice center if they were combined together into one.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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Rondo is an elite point guard.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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I actually don't think the C list is all that awful. 9 of the 10 guys in that top 10 were starters for playoff teams and defensive anchors. The problem is that most of them are much more talented on the defensive end than on the offensive side. Off that list the only ones i think have, or can have top level offensive production are Howard, Gasol, Cousins and Bropez. The rest are just decent on that end but with very good productivity on defense. Except Chandler, who is 30 going on 48.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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Look at the Celtics in the playoffs last year. Now look at them this year.

Also remember that this year's playoff team had Green and Bradley. Last year's did not.

Doc Rivers loves Rondo and said he is the smartest player he has ever coached. Doc is a smart man himself.

Do you still think Rondo's impact is overrated? The difference is drastic.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Even with this "weak" draft class coming up there are a ton of C's coming out I'm hoping someone just comes out and beast day 1. I really miss the dominate center era, especially watching Shaq play.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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Even with this "weak" draft class coming up there are a ton of C's coming out I'm hoping someone just comes out and beast day 1. I really miss the dominate center era, especially watching Shaq play.
Andre Drummond could do that...
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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In hindsight i enjoyed Shaq's career. As it was happening, i hated his guts. He's been one of just a handful of guys who were truly unstoppable.

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Andre Drummond could do that...
Not sure if srs.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:37 AM    (permalink
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Injuries have robbed some potential elite C's last few years. Yao and Oden off the top of my head.

Although, I'm not sure how far Oden's offensive game would have progressed by now.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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Yao actually produced at an elite level in the NBA before his feet gave out on him. Greg Oden was all hype and speculation.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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Damn I loved Yao.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:40 AM    (permalink
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I didn't respect Yao's career until I looked back on it when he retired. He really was a complete offensive weapon at 7'6.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:14 AM    (permalink
Brodeur
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
Oh gosh... True centers? i.e. not PFs pretending to be Cs (like Tim Duncan or Greg Monroe)?

1. Dwight Howard
2. Joakim Noah
3. Marc Gasol
4. Roy Hibbert
5. Demarcus Cousins
6. Andrew Bogut
7. Omer Asik
8. Brook Lopez
9. Tyson Chandler
10. Al Horford (not really true center)

Yikes. That's so so so patchy just as it is. And I'm just as inclined to put Cousins at 9 or 10 as 5.

If we are talking about true centers, you can probably chop the list off after 9 and that's a list of true starting centers in the league right now.

*Edit - there are others like Perkins but he can't even get 19 minutes a game.
Cousins above Asik, Chandler and Bropez is very amusing. Good show.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:02 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
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NIP, Bropez has gotta be #4 on that list behind Howard, Noah and Hibbert. Actually, probably 5 behind Marc Gasol.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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Kevin Durant is an overrated player. Don't worry guys, you'll see the light soon enough. Give it a couple of years.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
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Durant just tried to do literally everything last night and forced up some bad shots, which was sad to see.

Plus, the Grizz are such an awesome team defensively. Durant's going virtually 1 v 5 against a top defensive team
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