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Old 10-17-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
Rob S
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I want Melo to leave. Unlike some of you, I think he is a clear max level player. Just not the super max deal he would get from the Knicks. Paying a 34 year old Melo $30M sounds beyond awful.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Gotta re-sign him. Who would you replace him with?

It's not like Wiggins is coming through the door.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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I want Melo to leave. Unlike some of you, I think he is a clear max level player. Just not the super max deal he would get from the Knicks. Paying a 34 year old Melo $30M sounds beyond awful.
For as much as I rag on Melo it's purely to poke fun at BBD. I'd agree that he is a max level player.

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Gotta re-sign him. Who would you replace him with?

It's not like Wiggins is coming through the door.
I want Melo to opt into free agency and then sign with the Knicks for super-max (5 years and $130 million). Mainly because I want to see if even BBD could justify paying Melo that much at the tail end of the contract.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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For as much as I rag on Melo it's purely to poke fun at BBD. I'd agree that he is a max level player.



I want Melo to opt into free agency and then sign with the Knicks for super-max (5 years and $130 million). Mainly because I want to see if even BBD could justify paying Melo that much at the tail end of the contract.
Honestly, I think we're stuck. We kind of have to. Who else can we get? We have no draft picks, we can't build through the draft, and without Melo here, we can't get any other free agents to come here either.

Our management is so awful it will scare players away. Melo brings some credibility to the team and we need him to lure other guys here. We're stuck.

We just have to go All In with Melo and hope we can build a championship team around him. He has 4 good years left in the tank. We just have to manage the cap around him and hope for the best.

Stat and Chandler and Bargs all come off the books at the same time. If we extend Melo we can totally redo the roster around him and go for another championship run.

But we need Melo to bring credibility to the team so other FAs will come. If we lose Melo too we're back to square one.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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You will never build a championship team around Melo at this point. You can build a championship team with Melo as a complementary piece, but he will never be the center piece that you build around.

Only chance you have is to get some superstar big man and possibly PG to join forces with Melo, which I doubt will ever happen. Plus, once you sign Melo to the ridiculous super max contract, good luck being able to afford anyone else worth a damn to join with him.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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You will never build a championship team around Melo at this point. You can build a championship team with Melo as a complementary piece, but he will never be the center piece that you build around.

Only chance you have is to get some superstar big man and possibly PG to join forces with Melo, which I doubt will ever happen. Plus, once you sign Melo to the ridiculous super max contract, good luck being able to afford anyone else worth a damn to join with him.
He's better than Rose.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Seriously bbd, I'm trying to have a rational discussion.

Melo at this point in his career is neither A. the player you build a championship team around going forward or B. invest that kind of money in. He will be best fit as a complementary piece on a championship team, but not the focal point. He's game is too ball-demanding to have a legit secondary scorer that isn't all star caliber, and he is not dominant enough to carry a team of role players, e.g. the last 2 seasons.

The Knicks legitimately need at least one of a guard or PF/C that can be at least an above average scorer, and you aren't getting that if you resign Melo to the super max.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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He's better than Rose.
You stop it......youuuuuuuu......
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Seriously bbd, I'm trying to have a rational discussion.

Melo at this point in his career is neither A. the player you build a championship team around going forward or B. invest that kind of money in. He will be best fit as a complementary piece on a championship team, but not the focal point. He's game is too ball-demanding to have a legit secondary scorer that isn't all star caliber, and he is not dominant enough to carry a team of role players, e.g. the last 2 seasons.

The Knicks legitimately need at least one of a guard or PF/C that can be at least an above average scorer, and you aren't getting that if you resign Melo to the super max.
I think he can be that player. He was a borderline MVP candidate last year, what suddenly changed in half a year?

He just needs a good defensive center and a stud PG who can score and pass. That's the missing link. He's a ball stopper so you can't just funnel the offense through him.

But he's shown in the past, particularly in the Olympics that when he plays with a great PG he can play within the flow of the offense.

We desperately need a Chris Paul type PG to play with him, and if we can get that, a SG who can spread the floor and a defensive center, I think we can be a title contender as long as you surround those pieces with great defenders and rebounders.

It's doable.

He really is no different from Derrick Rose. Both are players who are ball stoppers who need to dominate the ball to be effective. Both can win championships if you compliment them with the right pieces.

It's gonna take a team full of great defenders and rebounders, and another scorer/distributor to make it happen.

You won't be a dynasty but you can win a championship that way.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Nah. You just trade Melo this year.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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I think he can be that player. He was a borderline MVP candidate last year, what suddenly changed in half a year?

He just needs a good defensive center and a stud PG who can score and pass. That's the missing link. He's a ball stopper so you can't just funnel the offense through him.

But he's shown in the past, particularly in the Olympics that when he plays with a great PG he can play within the flow of the offense.

We desperately need a Chris Paul type PG to play with him, and if we can get that, a SG who can spread the floor and a defensive center, I think we can be a title contender as long as you surround those pieces with great defenders and rebounders.

It's doable.

He really is no different from Derrick Rose. Both are players who are ball stoppers who need to dominate the ball to be effective. Both can win championships if you compliment them with the right pieces.

It's gonna take a team full of great defenders and rebounders, and another scorer/distributor to make it happen.

You won't be a dynasty but you can win a championship that way.
The difference is Rose is a PG, Melo is not. Building a team around a ball dominant PG is very different than around a ball dominant wing, especially one that is primarily a jump shooter. Also, Rose is 5 years younger and would be making about $40Mish less than Melo.

So you tell me, if they are at least comparible to build a team around, you would rather have the 30 year old for 5 years at $26M/year or the 25 year old for 5 years at $19M/year? See how awful this comparison is?
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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I don't even see how Melo can be a number 2 option on a contender, because 99% of all number two options have an actual secondary skill. Giving him the max is beyond stupid, and they can do some smart things with their roster...

-Trade Melo for Gasol this season/re-sign Gasol
-Trade Felton for whatever
-Release Bargs or buy him out
-Buy out Amar'e
-Sign Kyle Lowry in the offseason
-Sign a shooter like Will Barton

Lowry/Shumpert/filler/Gasol/Chandler COULD be decent enough, and it will get them just as far as Melo will for a lot less money/bad roster construction.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I don't even see how Melo can be a number 2 option on a contender, because 99% of all number two options have an actual secondary skill. Giving him the max is beyond stupid, and they can do some smart things with their roster...

-Trade Melo for Gasol this season/re-sign Gasol
-Trade Felton for whatever
-Release Bargs or buy him out
-Buy out Amar'e
-Sign Kyle Lowry in the offseason
-Sign a shooter like Will Barton

Lowry/Shumpert/filler/Gasol/Chandler COULD be decent enough, and it will get them just as far as Melo will for a lot less money/bad roster construction.
Winning 54 games last year, the 2 seed, and losing in the 2nd round to a team that took the Heat 7 games, isn't a contender?

Come on.

At least make up the magical player ceiling (he CAN'T win a title).
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Winning 54 games last year, the 2 seed, and losing in the 2nd round to a team that took the Heat 7 games, isn't a contender?

Come on.

At least make up the magical player ceiling (he CAN'T win a title).
Well looking at it this way (not necessarily agreeing with Brody's original point) but the Knicks won 54 games last year and were the 2 seed. You want to spend more money on the same player that took you there, and still think you will improve enough to not only get past the 2nd round but contend for a title? That's my original point, tying up more money in the same player you already have who will likely not grow or evolve his game anymore is not the recipe for success you need to build a team around the type of player Melo is. You just won't have any money for other top players he needs and have any type of depth. A super max contract for Melo would be crippling.

And while they were good last year, I hesitate to call any team that can't at least make the conference finals a contender that year.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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The difference is Rose is a PG, Melo is not. Building a team around a ball dominant PG is very different than around a ball dominant wing, especially one that is primarily a jump shooter. Also, Rose is 5 years younger and would be making about $40Mish less than Melo.

So you tell me, if they are at least comparible to build a team around, you would rather have the 30 year old for 5 years at $26M/year or the 25 year old for 5 years at $19M/year? See how awful this comparison is?
You're trying to bring the troll out of me aren't you?

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I don't even see how Melo can be a number 2 option on a contender, because 99% of all number two options have an actual secondary skill. Giving him the max is beyond stupid, and they can do some smart things with their roster...

-Trade Melo for Gasol this season/re-sign Gasol
-Trade Felton for whatever
-Release Bargs or buy him out
-Buy out Amar'e
-Sign Kyle Lowry in the offseason
-Sign a shooter like Will Barton

Lowry/Shumpert/filler/Gasol/Chandler COULD be decent enough, and it will get them just as far as Melo will for a lot less money/bad roster construction.
That's a terrible team. If a GM trades Melo and winds up with that team he should be fired immediately.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Marc Gasol > Melo to build a team around. He has an overall better skillset, allows you to complement him with a different array of players, and would be cheaper.

If you traded Melo for Gasol, you would have much more flexibility to build around him with better players than Brody listed if needed. With Melo and that contract, you would have much worse personnel than that.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
I don't even see how Melo can be a number 2 option on a contender, because 99% of all number two options have an actual secondary skill. Giving him the max is beyond stupid, and they can do some smart things with their roster...

-Trade Melo for Gasol this season/re-sign Gasol
-Trade Felton for whatever
-Release Bargs or buy him out
-Buy out Amar'e
-Sign Kyle Lowry in the offseason
-Sign a shooter like Will Barton

Lowry/Shumpert/filler/Gasol/Chandler COULD be decent enough, and it will get them just as far as Melo will for a lot less money/bad roster construction.

Which Gasol?
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Allen Iverson is going to announce his retirement at the 76ers home opener.

Wait what.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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No. No he's not. Marc Gasol is not nearly as good as you guys think he is.

Is he good? Yes. But he's not anywhere near top 10 in the league but will get paid max money. You guys overrate big men with ball skills.

You can't tell me Melo isn't worth top dollar but Gasol is. No way. Melo is 10x the player Gasol is.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Carmelo's best role would be as the 3rd piece to Paul and Griffin in LA.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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No way Memphis trades Marc for Melo he has to be talking about Pau.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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You do realize a Knicks signing Melo max contract is significantly higher than a Knicks signing Gasol max contract, right?
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Brody is talking about Pau. No way the Grizz would do Marc for Melo.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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No way Memphis trades Marc for Melo he has to be talking about Pau.
I assumed Marc, because if Pau then nevermind my points.

Lowry-Shump-____-Pau-Chandler would be nowhere near a contending team.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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I wish Marc Gasol would leave the West...
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