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Old 04-03-2014, 01:19 PM    (permalink
comahan
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
Plus Aldridge matched up against tjones
Jones is a fine defender, but Aldridge matchups don't matter that much since most of what he does is taking 18 foot jumpers. He's gone 9-19, 9-19, 11-26, and 10-27 against Houston this year, leading his team to a 1-3 record. And three of those games were before they started struggling. Who knows, maybe they catch fire and beat Houston, but I'd say they're by far Houston's easiest matchup in the playoffs. I'd much rather play POR than GSW, MEM, or DAL.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
If you compare their stats side by side they're almost a complete wash. Melo scores more though.

Narratives though.
No they're not though.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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No they're not though.
Technically you're right. Melo is having a better season.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Melo averages 2.9 PPG more than Harden on 5.3 more shots per game lol
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Same FG% though. Unless you consider 0.06% higher FG % for Harden to mean anything.

Plus Melo gets a lot more attention from defenders than Harden does. Melo is having the best season of his career but it's overlooked for a bunch of biased reasons.

And bc of narratives.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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FT count for points too. And Harden destroys Melo in terms of playmaking ability.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Was on Basketballreference when I read that post. After what you said, I hit ctrl+f to search for Melo to compare his stats this year to his stats in the past, but I came up with no results. My mistake. I was on the win shares per 48 mins page, a stat that Melo has never finished top 10 in.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Melo is a better rebounder and post player, Harden is a better playmaker and perimeter player. Radically different players, whose only real similarity is that they both score a lot of points.

Though Harden beats him in all the metrics by a comfortable margain ;)
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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FT count for points too. And Harden destroys Melo in terms of playmaking ability.
Getting to the line is washed by the fact that Melo is much better beyond the arc. Both have their advantages, Harden is drawing the defense in more effectively but Melo is stretching them out more effectively.

From a scoring perspective, they're basically a wash. Both can score at will. Melo is more versatile. Neither are world beater defenders. Harden assists more but Melo rebounds more. I also contend that it's easier to get more assists with more talent around you, plus basketball doesn't count the pass before the assist like hockey, bc if they did Melo would have a lot more "assists". That's something you can't measure with stats alone, but is evident when you watch him play. He's passing out of the double a ton, and the second passer gets the "assist"


And I would debate the "playmaking" argument. I don't see it.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Melo is a better rebounder and post player, Harden is a better playmaker and perimeter player. Radically different players, whose only real similarity is that they both score a lot of points.

Though Harden beats him in all the metrics by a comfortable margain ;)
Basically. And Melo hasn't been an above average rebounder until this year anyway.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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To clarify, I don't think Harden is a bad player by any stretch, I just think he's a little overrated on here. He's not any better than Melo, and if Melo isn't in your top 5 (or some ppl's top 10) there's no way Harden should be either.

My personal top 5:

1. LeBron
2. Clown
3. CP3
4. Anthony Davis
5. Dwight Howard
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Jones is a fine defender, but Aldridge matchups don't matter that much since most of what he does is taking 18 foot jumpers. He's gone 9-19, 9-19, 11-26, and 10-27 against Houston this year, leading his team to a 1-3 record. And three of those games were before they started struggling. Who knows, maybe they catch fire and beat Houston, but I'd say they're by far Houston's easiest matchup in the playoffs. I'd much rather play POR than GSW, MEM, or DAL.
It wasn't a knock on Jones, it was more of a size thing. But that's still just ridiculous. I don't understand why he doesn't work the paint more. LMA on the block or even the high post, is deadly. He has such a perfect skill set for it. It's maddening.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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I think people take too much into consideration as to how a team is performing as of late, and who is hot or not. NBA playoffs are not like the nfl where the hot team can win any given Sunday. I fully expect every series to be a dog fight, except for the Suns.


Edit - in the west, at least.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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The 3P% advantage for Melo balancing the other stats isn't accurate btw. It makes sense on the surface, but it just doesn't pan out that way because of where they take most of their shots from.

From 3-16 feet away from the rim, Melo is 177-435(40.6%), while Harden is 96-224(44.1%). Melo takes double the amount of shots at that range, and is *not* good from there. On 435 shots, a 3P shooter need only shoot 27% from beyond the arc to match Melo's midrange efficiency. And that's why Harden is more efficient on offense. Even though Melo has a better 3P% this season, he takes far fewer 3P shots. Harden is able to resist taking the poor midrange shots, converting them to a higher volume of 3P attempts instead.

There's a 211 shot difference between the two from 3-16 feet. 40% of Harden's shot selection are 3Ps. So while Melo takes 211 more shots than Harden from that area at 40%, Harden is taking 84 3's instead, hitting nearly the same percentage of those shots as Melo hits from 3-16 feet. He launches up 3s at a 37% clip instead of taking a ton of midrange shots at a 40% clip. And that makes all the difference in the world.

That's why Harden has a big advantage on Melo in stats like True Shooting Percentage (.619 to .564) and Effective FG% (.564 to .506), and why most everyone considers Harden to be a far more efficient player. It's not down to just him getting to the line 9 times a night and shooting 87% from there. It's the fact that he's one of the VERY RARE great scorers that doesn't give in to taking tough, inefficient midrange shots all the time.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I've never been a Melo fan, but I do feel the hate gets a bit excessive at times.

He's great as the "scorer" in your offense and is really just asked to score and grab some boards. His playmaking sucks though so if he is asked to be the offensive focal point in all aspects (which kind of happens on the Knicks) then things go bad. I actually think he'd be an interesting fit next to Rondo.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Yeah the Melo hate is too much. I don't think hes one of the elite players in the league, but he's a very good player. I think he's sort of like Iverson though, in that a team with Melo as the best player won't ever win a title, and his mindset/skillset probably wont let him play 2nd fiddle to someone that *can* carry a legit title team.

Maybe I'm wrong though, because he was fantastic as the 3rd option on the Olympic team.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Remember the greatness of White Chocolate

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Old 04-03-2014, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Harden settles for 3pt shots when you get into his face for a long period of time I.e playoff series
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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He takes 6-7 threes per game in both the regular season and the playoffs. His game is taking a lot of 3s. His 3PA rate is almost identical in the playoffs and regular season.
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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What's his shooting percentage from 3 during the playoffs? They definitely look more contested/ill timed
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Melo needs to go to Chicago.
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
What's his shooting percentage from 3 during the playoffs? They definitely look more contested/ill timed
.355 career, 49 games, 31.2 mpg

regular season averages are:

.369 career, 364 games, 31.2 mpg

so the percentage goes down a touch.
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Last edited by comahan : 04-03-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:11 PM    (permalink
Forenci
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Getting to the line is washed by the fact that Melo is much better beyond the arc. Both have their advantages, Harden is drawing the defense in more effectively but Melo is stretching them out more effectively.

From a scoring perspective, they're basically a wash. Both can score at will. Melo is more versatile. Neither are world beater defenders. Harden assists more but Melo rebounds more. I also contend that it's easier to get more assists with more talent around you, plus basketball doesn't count the pass before the assist like hockey, bc if they did Melo would have a lot more "assists". That's something you can't measure with stats alone, but is evident when you watch him play. He's passing out of the double a ton, and the second passer gets the "assist"


And I would debate the "playmaking" argument. I don't see it.
Melo is a terrible passer and Harden is a very good passer. How do you not see that?
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:11 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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also: beard.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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