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Old 06-18-2008, 01:07 PM    (permalink
Turtlepower
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Originally Posted by Byrd430 View Post
I have a lot of knocks on Gasol. Sure, I feel that he's a great scorer down low, but he's not aggressive, he doesn't play much defense, and he turns the ball over too much.

Kobe is the best player in the NBA, but he can't do things by himself. Boozer and Williams run the pick and roll really well and both are among the best at their position.

I'll give you that Kobe-Gasol may be on the same level as McGrady-Ming. Duncan-Ginobili-Parker. But the fact is that Kobe did not have the same cast since Shaq that Jordan had with the Bulls.
It doesn't matter how good your cast is when you choke in the Finals. The Celtics did play great defense in the 2nd half of game 4, but Kobe really choked in the 2nd half as well.
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
Giants, ASU Sun Devils, Yankees
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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At least Isaiah and Dolan were trying. No matter how big of a joke those two are/were, they will never even be a noticeable fraction of how inept the Patriots were run for years. Now I know Madison Square Garden may not be the newest facility in the country, but is still the Mecca and no different then going to Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. There's a reason to go, even if people could care less about the Knicks.

Sullivan Stadium was a glorified high school stadium. John Hannah came to this team and said his high school in Alabama had better facilities. On top of that, Foxboro is in the middle of nowhere, an hour from Boston, Providence, Worcester, the Cape and like two hours from Hartford. Who the hell would want to go there and deal with THAT situation?

You're comparing apples and oranges. The Pats had a groundswell of support in the 60's and 70's, when they were actually pretty good and may have even won a Super Bowl if not for, get this, a horrible call in the AFC Title game against... the Raiders... ownership in the 80's just blew it all away and Kraft came in and saved this franchise from total destruction.
So you're saying that Dolan and Isiah were/are not entirely incompetent because we have a historic stadium? I'm sorry but that's stupid, Isiah is the worst GM I've seen in any sport. He took a bad team and made it terrible, in fact it'll take years to even get us back to bad thanks to Isiah's "leadership". The fact that pats got no love and the knicks still have people showing up can only attest to the fact that NYK fans care more for their team, and not because Isiah was trying. I would have more respect for Isiah if he came out and said that he'd been tripping on Acid for the past few years straight, and that's why he made the moves he did. Atleast then we'd have an explanation for the endless stupidity and indifference to the fact that he was a complete failure as a GM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Byrd430 View Post
I have a lot of knocks on Gasol. Sure, I feel that he's a great scorer down low, but he's not aggressive, he doesn't play much defense, and he turns the ball over too much.

Kobe is the best player in the NBA, but he can't do things by himself. Boozer and Williams run the pick and roll really well and both are among the best at their position.

I'll give you that Kobe-Gasol may be on the same level as McGrady-Ming. Duncan-Ginobili-Parker. But the fact is that Kobe did not have the same cast since Shaq that Jordan had with the Bulls.
i agree that kobe is the best player in the NBA although it didnt show for the majority of this series but i dont think he is in the same league as jordan
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Any news on where Gilbert Arenas might be playing next year?
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Any news on where Gilbert Arenas might be playing next year?
Washington....please or else the organization better have some things planned of who were bringing in...come on big man....
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by trkaline View Post
Washington....please or else the organization better have some things planned of who were bringing in...come on big man....
Dude is the most overrated player in the league. I don't get why you want him to stick around.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Dude is the most overrated player in the league. I don't get why you want him to stick around.
He's a dangerous scoring threat at all times and he runs the fast tempo offense fairly well.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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He's a dangerous scoring threat at all times and he runs the fast tempo offense fairly well.
He also jacks up 50 shots per game, has never won anything andhas an ego that surpasses his ability. Superstar indeed
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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He also jacks up 50 shots per game, has never won anything andhas an ego that surpasses his ability. Superstar indeed
Atleast he's not Starbury.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
Dude is the most overrated player in the league. I don't get why you want him to stick around.
Our team is good enough without him ,but my main thing is I want to give him another shot of hopefully having a season where he doesn't get injured and seeing how he gels if he stays healthy and plays as a team...
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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what can we get for odom?

wish we still had caron.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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what can we get for odom?

wish we still had caron.
No trade backs...bustah....
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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So you're saying that Dolan and Isiah were/are not entirely incompetent because we have a historic stadium? I'm sorry but that's stupid, Isiah is the worst GM I've seen in any sport. He took a bad team and made it terrible, in fact it'll take years to even get us back to bad thanks to Isiah's "leadership". The fact that pats got no love and the knicks still have people showing up can only attest to the fact that NYK fans care more for their team, and not because Isiah was trying. I would have more respect for Isiah if he came out and said that he'd been tripping on Acid for the past few years straight, and that's why he made the moves he did. Atleast then we'd have an explanation for the endless stupidity and indifference to the fact that he was a complete failure as a GM.
I think you are missing my point. The two had nothing to do with each other.

Those two guys want to win. They aren't losing out of a lack of trying. Making bad decisions on some personnel moves is a lot different then completely running a franchise into the ground, top to bottom.

The reason I bring up the stadium is because it doesn't matter how good or bad the Cubs or Red Sox are, people still go because it is Fenway or Wrigley and they are in the middle of everything and easy to get to. Same thing with MSG. It's in the middle of the biggest city in America and people go because it is MSG, regardless of their allegiance.

Foxboro/Sullivan Stadium was a DUMP. There was no reason for ANYONE to go there, least of all drive an hour or two out of the way to do it. If the Patriots played in the Boston city limits during those years, I guarantee attendance during those years would have increased dramatically. If MSG was in Albany or Long Island, no one would go see the Knicks. So you really can't compare the two.

It's also a different era for the NFL right now. Almost every team sells out regardless just because the NFL is what it is. None of these fans were here 20 years ago. It's not just the Patriots who are up, it's across the board. Did the Patriots have their problems? Absolutely. But I don't blame fans for not going. Those people didn't deserve the business, and if they had gone and supported the team, who's to say Bob Kraft ever gets the chance to buy the team? It worked out perfect.

The problem with the Knicks is that everyone still goes. The Bruins were the same way for years, just good enough to make the playoffs with a total eye on the bottom dollar. Fans have officially had it with the way Jeremy Jacobs runs the team and have stopped supporting the team. There was a point in time where the Boston Bruins were the undisputed #1 team in this city, and the fans chose to go away until Jacobs cuts the crap.

Dolan never had to change because you guys kept buying the tickets. It's the catch 22 of sports. But either way, it's a stupid argument to begin with...
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I think you are missing my point. The two had nothing to do with each other.

Those two guys want to win. They aren't losing out of a lack of trying. Making bad decisions on some personnel moves is a lot different then completely running a franchise into the ground, top to bottom.

The reason I bring up the stadium is because it doesn't matter how good or bad the Cubs or Red Sox are, people still go because it is Fenway or Wrigley and they are in the middle of everything and easy to get to. Same thing with MSG. It's in the middle of the biggest city in America and people go because it is MSG, regardless of their allegiance.

Foxboro/Sullivan Stadium was a DUMP. There was no reason for ANYONE to go there, least of all drive an hour or two out of the way to do it. If the Patriots played in the Boston city limits during those years, I guarantee attendance during those years would have increased dramatically. If MSG was in Albany or Long Island, no one would go see the Knicks. So you really can't compare the two.

It's also a different era for the NFL right now. Almost every team sells out regardless just because the NFL is what it is. None of these fans were here 20 years ago. It's not just the Patriots who are up, it's across the board. Did the Patriots have their problems? Absolutely. But I don't blame fans for not going. Those people didn't deserve the business, and if they had gone and supported the team, who's to say Bob Kraft ever gets the chance to buy the team? It worked out perfect.

The problem with the Knicks is that everyone still goes. The Bruins were the same way for years, just good enough to make the playoffs with a total eye on the bottom dollar. Fans have officially had it with the way Jeremy Jacobs runs the team and have stopped supporting the team. There was a point in time where the Boston Bruins were the undisputed #1 team in this city, and the fans chose to go away until Jacobs cuts the crap.

Dolan never had to change because you guys kept buying the tickets. It's the catch 22 of sports. But either way, it's a stupid argument to begin with...
If isiah wanted to win and made the decisions he made I hope he was on PCP the whole time, because otherwise I'm shocked he doesn't choke on air regularly. Also if Dolan actually cared about winning this team would've been run completely differently. But people care about the team and will root for them pretty much regardless, and not because it's MSG, but because they're the Knickerbockers.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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I hope Dumars tears up the Pistons and starts rebuilding around Suckey. That would just be lovely.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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That was an amazing game to watch last night (if you wanted the Celtics). Rajon Rondo and Leon Powe have very bright futures, both play basketball the right away. Play good defense, very good hustlers, always play 100 percent. Rondo would be one of the top PG's in the league if he had a good jumper.

Don't be too down though Laker fans, you will be back next year with Bynum.

And D-Unit, is Stucky really a player you can build around? I mean does Dumars think he is THAT good?
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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so yea, who's up for early predictions?

Nets over Hornets in 6
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Knicks win it all going through the playoffs undefeated.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter how good your cast is when you choke in the Finals. The Celtics did play great defense in the 2nd half of game 4, but Kobe really choked in the 2nd half as well.
It didn't show up on the stat sheet, but when he was healthy Kenderick Perkins MAN HANDLED Gasol. The Celtics were the more physical team which helped them win the finals. Plus they had the much better bench. I have always been a fan of having a strong bench. Championship teams ALWAYS have good role players.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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gasol was exposed in this series. Even when we got him I didn't think the lakers were going to coast through the playoffs.

hindsight is 20/20 though.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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I think what we saw from Rondo last night was his ceiling. If he could put it together and play within 85% of the way he did last night, every night, he's going to be deadly. It's only his second year so he still has time to develop. Just has to work on that shot so teams take him more seriously...

Kid has heart though. For a kid that's 6'1 and about 150 soaking wet, he takes a beating and keeps coming back for more. Pao Gasol should take notes.

Did anyone's reputation and legacy take a bigger hit these playoffs then Pao Gasol and Kobe Bryant? Sheesh...
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Did anyone's reputation and legacy take a bigger hit these playoffs then Pao Gasol and Kobe Bryant? Sheesh...
all of the lakers except maybe derek fisher.

walton and vlad rad showed that they aren't quick or strong enough to keep up with the other quicker and stronger SFs in the league.

Odom showed his inconsistency on a national stage.

and farmar showed he's soft and can't keep up with the bigger stronger pgs.

i still love this team though and will root for them every step of the way.

we were out matched, out played and out coached, hope to be back next year.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:02 PM    (permalink
mqtirishfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatEscape View Post
If isiah wanted to win and made the decisions he made I hope he was on PCP the whole time, because otherwise I'm shocked he doesn't choke on air regularly. Also if Dolan actually cared about winning this team would've been run completely differently. But people care about the team and will root for them pretty much regardless, and not because it's MSG, but because they're the Knickerbockers.
Look, you're fooling yourself if you think Isiah was not trying to win. You don't spend that much money on players unless you're trying to win. GMs either spend to win, or save money. They don't waste money to purposely make a losing team.

As for the Pats v. Knicks, (and I don't give two shits about either team) the Knicks have a far better chance of selling out every game than the Pats in a down period. For one thing, the Knicks are an iconic team. That really helps boost attendance. The fact that everyone knows MSG only helps.

Second, they're in the middle of ******* New York City! There are millions upon millions of people there. Seriously, think about that.

Finally, MSG seats over 40,000 fewer people than an NFL stadium. It's not difficult to figure out how it might be easier sell out MSG.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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We'll be back. I hope this loss is forever embedded in the young guys hearts and minds.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Hahahahaha:



I don't care, it was a much more fair trade then the Memphis/LA one...
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