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Old 05-12-2009, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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mmmm yeah, I guess, but stack Barkely on a team with 2 other HOFers and what happens?

He pretty much only had that opportunity in his rookie year and he was with 2 really old guys.

The mail man and KG are only equal in terms of how big of pieces of **** they are. One is dirty, the other just has a dirty mouth haha. Still, I'd take malone.
To be fair, Barkley did latch onto a team with Olajuwon and Drexler near the end of his career. They were all past their primes, but so are Pierce, KG and Allen. It would have been one thing if they ran into the Bulls buzzsaw, not winning a championship is understandable. But they didn't make the Finals.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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So you are adding Pierce and Allen to your HOF list now??? Lets get this straight. It started as Lebron and Kobe then it went to Lebron/Kobe/Duncan. Now it is Lebron/Kobe/Duncan/Peirce/Allen?
No, the list was for a three deep all time team.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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Personally I'd take Isaiah Thomas, John Stockton, Oscar Robertson all ahead of Nash or Kidd
Eh, I guess it is debatable. JMO but Kidd is top three.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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So you are adding Pierce and Allen to your HOF list now??? Lets get this straight. It started as Lebron and Kobe then it went to Lebron/Kobe/Duncan. Now it is Lebron/Kobe/Duncan/Peirce/Allen?
No, you're twisting my words.

I said KG was not a HOF. However, I said if I was making an All time list that only went 3 deep at every position, Duncan, Shaq, Bron, Kobe would be the only current players to make that list.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Stockton, Thomas, Magic, Payton, and prolly Cousy are all ahead of Kidd imo.

EDIT: also thought someone meant top 3 PGs, not just HoF. Nevermind.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, Barkley did latch onto a team with Olajuwon and Drexler near the end of his career. They were all past their primes, but so are Pierce, KG and Allen. It would have been one thing if they ran into the Bulls buzzsaw, not winning a championship is understandable. But they didn't make the Finals.
True, Barkely was about as fat as he is right now though haha. If we would have hopped on that team a few years earlier they could have done it.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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Stockton, Thomas, Magic, Payton, and prolly Cousy are all ahead of Kidd imo.
I didn't know what to count Magic as. I mean, PG was his primary position, although he could and did play all 5 but yeah, Kidd doesn't make my 3 deep list.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure he can.

JMO.

He can do it at times, yes... but for a whole series against a team as good as those Lakers? I dunno. He wouldn't have led them to victory, I don't think. This year he has the luxury of West and Mo, who can bring the ball up the court and let scoring possessions happen without LeBron even touching the ball. He still is the PG, leading scorer and defensive anchor, but not to the extent KG had to be.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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No, you're twisting my words.

I said KG was not a HOF. However, I said if I was making an All time list that only went 3 deep at every position, Duncan, Shaq, Bron, Kobe would be the only current players to make that list.
I wouldn't take shaq top 3.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Personally I'd take Isaiah Thomas, John Stockton, Oscar Robertson all ahead of Nash or Kidd
I'd add Magic (who's probably the best ever) and Cousy.

EDIT: Forgot about The Glove for a second there, thanks Iowa.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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I didn't know what to count Magic as. I mean, PG was his primary position, although he could and did play all 5 but yeah, Kidd doesn't make my 3 deep list.
Yea, I agree, but imo he's at least in the convo at PG. Big O is another one that is a tweener.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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I didn't know what to count Magic as. I mean, PG was his primary position, although he could and did play all 5 but yeah, Kidd doesn't make my 3 deep list.
If you're counting Big O as a PG, then Magic certainly is.

In any case, this is a terrible argument. I know the game is terrible but we should really talk about something else.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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SG would have Kobe and Jordan, not sure who the other would be.

PF for me would prob be Duncan, Barkley, Mail Man -- but I don't know enough about guys like Unseld, Elvin Hayes, and McHale to really say
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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So who wants to have some fun and list these 3 deep teams? I'll throw mine out. No real particular order. I put guys I think can get on this list, but can't in good conscience be there now, by the end of their career in brackets.

Magic/Stockton/Zeke(CP3)
MJ/Kobe/West(Wade)
Bird/Bron/Dr. J
Duncan/Malone/KG
Wilt/Kareem/Russell
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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Any top PG list without Magic would instantly lose all credibility. He was PG through and through.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't take shaq top 3.
What 3 centers would you put before him? He's pretty damn dominant. Especially considering he was in an era where there are a lot of other 6'10''+ guys to match up against, unlike someone like Wilt who was pretty much playing against munchkins.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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So who wants to have some fun and list these 3 deep teams? I'll throw mine out. No real particular order. I put guys I think can get on this list, but can't in good conscience be there now, by the end of their career in brackets.

Magic/Stockton/Zeke(CP3)
MJ/Kobe/West(Wade)
Bird/Bron/Dr. J
Duncan/Malone/KG
Wilt/Kareem/Russell
Damn, another Shaq shafting...

I hate the guy, thought he became a huge diva, but he's gotta make my 3 deep squad.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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If you don't have O at PG, then he has to be at SG.

Also, Jerry West has to be in the discussion.

For PF, depends on who the C are. My C would be Kareem, Russell, and Wilt/Shaq.

However, you can certainly put Russell at PF (although he played C), leave the other 3 C, and add Duncan and Barkley/McHale imo. I hate Malone.

EDIT: I'll list mine lol

1- Stockton, Magic, Thomas
2- Jordan, Kobe, West
3- Bird, Big O, Dr. J
4- Duncan, Barkley, Malone
5- Kareem, Russell, Hakeem

If Big O isn't on some of your lists, you fail. And I moved him to SF even though he should be a guard, whatever.

EDIT: Thanks Brodeur, I completely forgot Hakeem.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Well, after further review haha I guess Kidd would be just outside the top three. I didn't count Oscar. I would say the top three are Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, and John Stockton.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Ill go with

Magic/Stockton/Robertson
MJ/Kobe/West
Bron/Bird/Dr. J (good list SABF)
Duncan/Malone/Barkley
Kareem/Shaq/Russell
(Hard not to put Wilt here, but I feel like Shaq had a much high level of competition to go against, at least in terms of size.)

I think CP3 has a chance to be an all time great. Dwight is someone I wish I could say that about, but all of the all time great centers had a much, much more polished offensive game by this time in their career -- sadly, he'll never fulfill my original potential I saw for him.

I think Wade's health will stop him from ever making this list.

My sleeper (probably never make this 3 deep team, but that's why he is a sleeper) is Melo. If he dedicates himself to playing defense and keeps improving, he has a chance to be an all time great. It would take a full time commitment, which I don't think he has (too much hollywood lifestyle) but he's got the size, speed, "clutchness", and mental makeup to do it if he wanted.

Side note, I think I would put Billups in the same tier with Kidd and Nash. Definitely a different breed of PG, but an all timer none the less.

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Old 05-12-2009, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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I've always said that Hakeem was a better center than Shaq and I think he's the second best center of all time (behind Kareem) personally. List:

PG: Magic/Isiah/Stockton
SG: MJ/Kobe/West
SF: Bird/LeBron/Baylor
PF: Duncan/KG/McHale (I just really hate Karl Malone)
C: Kareem/Hakeem/Russell
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Damn, another Shaq shafting...

I hate the guy, thought he became a huge diva, but he's gotta make my 3 deep squad.
I have Shaq 4th, just ahead of Hakeem. I love the guy, but I can't put him above those three. Wilt didn't play against Munchkins, that's a common misconception. The average player then was every bit as tall as today. And unlike now, when the top Cs(Howard and Yao) play twice a year, there were 8 teams back then, and the best saw each other a lot. Wilt wasn't even the tallest player when he played. He was a phenomenal athlete, was huge and long, with incredible skill. The only C to ever lead the NBA in assists, he was the top scorer and rebounder(I won't compare numbers across eras, considering pace, but being the top scorer and rebounder in the league for so long is tough), and also has the best FG% ever for a season(although this was when his role changed and he only scored ~15 per).

Kareem is Kareem, not much else needs to be said.

Russell seems to get a pass when people talk about playing in the 60s, and he was a far worse offensive player. Terrible even. But he defended and rebounded as well as anyone ever, fed the break with his amazing outlet passes, and of course he won almost every year he played.

If we're talking absolute peak, Shaq makes this list over Russell IMO but Shaq's absolute peak was considerably shorter than the others.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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PG: Oscar Robertson/Isiah/Walt "Clyde" Frazier ( I no I am being a Knick homer but he was a dam good pg)

SG: MJ/Magic/Kobe
SF: Bird/LeBron/DR. J
PF: Duncan/Barkley/Russell (I am making him a pf cause of height)
C: Kareem/Wilt/ Shaq
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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I think Shaq's peak is top 3, but his early career and late career hurt him in my eyes.

As for Wilt vs. Russell, personally I would take Russell 11 times out of 10. Not only was he arguably the best defender and rebounder of all time, but he was the ultimate team player and pure blood winner. Wilt was a pretty big diva for a good part of his career, and didn't always give 100%. I have to take Russell just because of his character.

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PG: Oscar Robertson/Isiah/Walt "Clyde" Frazier ( I no I am being a Knick homer but he was a dam good pg)

SG: MJ/Magic/Kobe
SF: Bird/LeBron/DR. J
PF: Duncan/Barkley/Russell (I am making him a pf cause of height)
C: Kareem/Wilt/ Shaq
I hope it was just an honest mistake to forget Stockton...
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:27 PM    (permalink
Burns336
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I have Shaq 4th, just ahead of Hakeem. I love the guy, but I can't put him above those three. Wilt didn't play against Munchkins, that's a common misconception. The average player then was every bit as tall as today. And unlike now, when the top Cs(Howard and Yao) play twice a year, there were 8 teams back then, and the best saw each other a lot. Wilt wasn't even the tallest player when he played. He was a phenomenal athlete, was huge and long, with incredible skill. The only C to ever lead the NBA in assists, he was the top scorer and rebounder(I won't compare numbers across eras, considering pace, but being the top scorer and rebounder in the league for so long is tough), and also has the best FG% ever for a season(although this was when his role changed and he only scored ~15 per).

Kareem is Kareem, not much else needs to be said.

Russell seems to get a pass when people talk about playing in the 60s, and he was a far worse offensive player. Terrible even. But he defended and rebounded as well as anyone ever, fed the break with his amazing outlet passes, and of course he won almost every year he played.

If we're talking absolute peak, Shaq makes this list over Russell IMO but Shaq's absolute peak was considerably shorter than the others.
Well that changes things. Obviously I wasn't around to watch those games, but that is what you commonly hear.

Not sure about my centers list anymore.
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