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Old 05-13-2009, 12:29 AM    (permalink
the decider13
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What 3 centers would you put before him? He's pretty damn dominant. Especially considering he was in an era where there are a lot of other 6'10''+ guys to match up against, unlike someone like Wilt who was pretty much playing against munchkins.
Hakeem/Russell/Kareem
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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I think Shaq's peak is top 3, but his early career and late career hurt him in my eyes.

As for Wilt vs. Russell, personally I would take Russell 11 times out of 10. Not only was he arguably the best defender and rebounder of all time, but he was the ultimate team player and pure blood winner. Wilt was a pretty big diva for a good part of his career, and didn't always give 100%. I have to take Russell just because of his character.



I hope it was just an honest mistake to forget Stockton...
It's hard to give 100% when you are busy laying over 10,000 women I guess.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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I think Shaq's peak is top 3, but his early career and late career hurt him in my eyes.
Early career?

1st year: 23.4/13.9/1.9/3.5 blocks
2nd year: 29.3/13.2/2.4/2.9 blocks

What's the problem here?

And Shaq was never as great of a defender as he should have been and that's why I don't believe he's top 3. He's top 5 though.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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So you think I'm insecure about my looks, chubby checkers?



Here's me with my girl, the same type you have to beat off about cuz you'll never touch the real thing... At least not for free hhahahaa
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Wow Dude, Seriously? Like super seriously? Are you going to post a picture of your dad next for a round of "My Dad can beat up your dad" and you shouldn't be LOL-ing at anyones stature, what are you like 5'2, you look like the SoCal white "Brah" version of Webster. I am just starting to wonder if this display of E-Smugness is making D-Unit regret giving you all that rep...
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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It's hard to give 100% when you are busy laying over 10,000 women I guess.
Hmm, touche. I didn't take that into account.

Honestly, Wilt was great, but I just personally don't like him as a player.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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When it comes to being a dominant offensive force, Shaq is possibly the best ever. MJ is right there as well, but Shaq simply couldn't be contained due to his size and physical size. That, and he has four rings. He has to be a top three center of all time.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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Wow Dude, Seriously? Like super seriously? Are you going to post a picture of your dad next for a round of "My Dad can beat up your dad" and you shouldn't be LOL-ing at anyones stature, what are you like 5'2, you look like the SoCal white "Brah" version of Webster. I am just starting to wonder if this display of E-Smugness is making D-Unit regret giving you all that rep...
Bro you can't phase him, he looks like that and thats his chick bro.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Early career?

1st year: 23.4/13.9/1.9/3.5 blocks
2nd year: 29.3/13.2/2.4/2.9 blocks

What's the problem here?

And Shaq was never as great of a defender as he should have been and that's why I don't believe he's top 3. He's top 5 though.
Good point. I guess I never really associated with him dominating early in his career. But that may be due to players such as Hakeem and Ewing playing in the peak of theirs.

And I don't really want to get into a whole argument about different time periods, but a lot of why Shaq dominated on offense was because of leniency from refs. In his prime, he should have been called for traveling or offensive fouls at least half the time. But it's not his fault so I can't fault him for it.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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<The Official NBA Discussion thread> where...douchebaggery...happens...

Wow Dude, Seriously? Like super seriously? Are you going to post a picture of your dad next for a round of "My Dad can beat up your dad" and you shouldn't be LOL-ing at anyones stature, what are you like 5'2, you look like the SoCal white "Brah" version of Webster. I am just starting to wonder if this display of E-Smugness is making D-Unit regret giving you all that rep...
He sent me a neg rep comment saying im insecure about my looks. Clearly Im not.

and yeah, I am a so cal brah, and im 5'10'' -- still short but not 5'2''

but hey, thanks for jumping into an argument you had no background on. welcome to the party.

and D-unit isn't responsible for all this rep. It's just my uncanny ability to state the obvious gayness in some people that people like. Apparently to the tune of 18000 meaningless rep points.

I'm sure he doesn't regret stacking up my E-cred bro, Ill give all to you if you want it.

EDIT: Do I sense a hint of jealousy? hahahah

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Old 05-13-2009, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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Bro you can't phase him, he looks like that and thats his chick bro.
Now you're starting to get the idea.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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I would like to say though... if Shaq came into the league just 5 years before, he might be challenging MJ as the GOAT. What really might have plagued him is that by the time he should have been in the back end of his prime... there was simply no one at his position even worthy of his effort. The middle of this decade was super duper weak at the 5 spot. He wasn't being pushed by anyone, and he didn't even really need to work on his game. I'm sure if he was in his prime against the 90s Cs like Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson, etc. he would have been pushed to his fullest abilities. He never had that MJ drive, so the weak competition killed him.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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Good point. I guess I never really associated with him dominating early in his career. But that may be due to players such as Hakeem and Ewing playing in the peak of theirs.

And I don't really want to get into a whole argument about different time periods, but a lot of why Shaq dominated on offense was because of leniency from refs. In his prime, he should have been called for traveling or offensive fouls at least half the time. But it's not his fault so I can't fault him for it.
I still remember when I was in the car listening to the radio with my dad and I heard shaq had signed with the lakers.

Crushed.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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I would like to say though... if Shaq came into the league just 5 years before, he might be challenging MJ as the GOAT. What really might have plagued him is that by the time he should have been in the back end of his prime... there was simply no one at his position even worthy of his effort. The middle of this decade was super duper weak at the 5 spot. He wasn't being pushed by anyone, and he didn't even really need to work on his game. I'm sure if he was in his prime against the 90s Cs like Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson, etc. he would have been pushed to his fullest abilities. He never had that MJ drive, so the weak competition killed him.
Definitely. I would love to see someone like Russell D up on Shaq. It would be epic. Or like you said, even prime Shaq vs. Hakeem in his prime.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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Definitely. I would love to see someone like Russell D up on Shaq. It would be epic. Or like you said, even prime Shaq vs. Hakeem in his prime.
Shaq definitely was the beneficiary of his own style though.

I'm sure if any centers in today's NBA tried to back people down like Shaq did, they would be called for an offensive foul 65% of the time, whereas Shaq probably got called for a charge 1 out of every 75 back downs or so.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Shaq definitely was the beneficiary of his own style though.

I'm sure if any centers in today's NBA tried to back people down like Shaq did, they would be called for an offensive foul 65% of the time, whereas Shaq probably got called for a charge 1 out of every 75 back downs or so.
Yea, I mean it's hard to say how players' styles would adapt to different periods, but everyone knows that once Shaq was within 5 feet of the basket, even if you stood there perfectly still, he was going to use his crab dribble and plow through you no call lol.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Yea, I mean it's hard to say how players' styles would adapt to different periods, but everyone knows that once Shaq was within 5 feet of the basket, even if you stood there perfectly still, he was going to use his crab dribble and plow through you no call lol.
I still don't understand what the crab dribble actually is. I've watched numerous video clips and dont see it.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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I still don't understand what the crab dribble actually is. I've watched numerous video clips and dont see it.
It's tough to explain. Basically, he backs down defenders and once he picks up his dribble, he essentially shuffles his feet back and it never got called. He technically wouldn't take more than 2 steps, he would just not pick up his feet.

Crab dribble = any time Shaq would be under the basket, he never kept his pivot foot or took 2 steps.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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It's tough to explain. Basically, he backs down defenders and once he picks up his dribble, he essentially shuffles his feet back and it never got called. He technically wouldn't take more than 2 steps, he would just not pick up his feet.

Crab dribble = any time Shaq would be under the basket, he never kept his pivot foot or took 2 steps.
Oh, when you try and look on clips on you tube, you basically see people side stepping with a dribble.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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Oh, when you try and look on clips on you tube, you basically see people side stepping with a dribble.
Yea, Shaq crab dribble is different than the present crab dribble. Present crab dribble is what Lebron had that big deal over. Shaq crab dribble was pretty much all from his Lakers days when he would constantly shuffle his feet under the basket and never get called. I tried to find a video, but like you said, all the ones on youtube are the "new" crab dribble.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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He called him out for putting Redick back in. Instead of staying with Pietrus, I'm sure. No that was not a great thing to do. It was an immature comment that could have been made behind closed doors...and then he went on to demand more touches, which is ludicrous considering how poorly he has played on offense.
No that's not what I got from it. In fact he purposely avoided naming names because he said he wasn't about to bash any of his teammates. But he alluded to the fact that SVG took bench guys out of the game that were playing well in favor for high paid starters. I think he was talking about taking Battie out and calling on Rashard. We'll never really know since he didn't name names.

He also complained of the way SVG asked them to slow down the game and settle for jumpers. Said the Magic should've kept on playing the same way that got them the lead. SVG panicked and changed the game plan. Complained about not getting the ball... just 10 touches all game. He didn't say he was a dominant force per se... he just said, if you have a dominant force, use it. To me I thought it was him having confidence in himself and acknowledging that he is and should be a main guy.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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No that's not what I got from it. In fact he purposely avoided naming names because he said he wasn't about to bash any of his teammates. But he alluded to the fact that SVG took bench guys out of the game that were playing well in favor for high paid starters. I think he was talking about taking Battie out and calling on Rashard. We'll never really know since he didn't name names.

He also complained of the way SVG asked them to slow down the game and settle for jumpers. Said the Magic should've kept on playing the same way that got them the lead. SVG panicked and changed the game plan. Complained about not getting the ball... just 10 touches all game. He didn't say he was a dominant force per se... he just said, if you have a dominant force, use it. To me I thought it was him having confidence in himself and acknowledging that he is and should be a main guy.
This is shocking to me, I just said a few pages ago that there was no way SVG said this. If he did, then yeah, terrible coaching.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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This is shocking to me, I just said a few pages ago that there was no way SVG said this. If he did, then yeah, terrible coaching.
Well now, I just saw... SVG's press conference. He's now blaming the players. What a douche. Saying the players didn't score. Saying, he didn't want to slow down the pace, but that's what the players did.

Wow. SVG you just showed that you have no control over this team and that you will place blame on them. Shaq called it... said SVG was a master panicker and would let down his team in the playoffs.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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"I know for a fact that he's a master of panic, and when it gets time for his team to go in the postseason and do certain things, he will let them down because of his panic.” -- Suns center Shaquille O'Neal on
Magic coach Stan Van Gundy

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3953133

Stan Van Gundy = No Class
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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If this is the case, Dwight needs to exercise his power as the franchise. I can tell he wants to win. He may smile a lot, but he has that fire brewing in him. If he wants to, he can have SVG fired in a snap. He can have anyone in that organization fired. If he doesn't feel SVG can get them over the hump, he can let Otis know. Change will come if he does that.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
If this is the case, Dwight needs to exercise his power as the franchise. I can tell he wants to win. He may smile a lot, but he has that fire brewing in him. If he wants to, he can have SVG fired in a snap. He can have anyone in that organization fired. If he doesn't feel SVG can get them over the hump, he can let Otis know. Change will come if he does that.
Everytime SVG goes in front of the mic he embarrasses the Magic franchise. Guy has no class.
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