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Old 02-20-2007, 11:08 AM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by CDub
While many of you are commenting on how this can improve his potential as a HC because he gets to learn under Norv Turner as well as learn the 3-4 scheme, one point you are skipping over, however, is the fact that he was not only passed over by the 6 teams that he interviewed with for HC jobs, but he was also NOT re-signed by his current employer and had to take a lesser role. Now I may not know everything there is to know about the man, but being passed on by 6 teams has to show that there were some serious deficiencies in his percieved ability to take on the full duties of a HC, much like Russ Grimm here in PIT. And not being re-signed by the Bears puts a dent in his DC resume and if Lovie is able to maintian the success that D has had without him, that will only discredit him more.
He didn't even get to interview for most of the jobs since the Bears were still playing up until the Superbowl. For all we know, one of those teams may have hired him.
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
He didn't even get to interview for most of the jobs since the Bears were still playing up until the Superbowl. For all we know, one of those teams may have hired him.
Exaclty. I also think the 3-4 argument carries less weight than people think. For one thing the 3-4 was less en vogue than the Cover 2 anyways and for another both super bowl teams this year ran the Cover 2 in a copy cat league. This was a desperation move, most teams have filled their openings.
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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He'll end up being the most versatile Defensive Coach out there. He'll know the Cover 2 (Chicago), Blitz Heavy 4-3 (Philly), and the 3-4 (San Diego).
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Good move by Rivera. He doesn't want to be tagged as a system DC. He's getting experience in the 3-4 to further increase his stock.

It won't matter though. He'll probably just run Cover 2 in whatever team he goes to.

I see him going to Tampa if Gruden doesn't produce this year.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CDub
While many of you are commenting on how this can improve his potential as a HC because he gets to learn under Norv Turner as well as learn the 3-4 scheme, one point you are skipping over, however, is the fact that he was not only passed over by the 6 teams that he interviewed with for HC jobs, but he was also NOT re-signed by his current employer and had to take a lesser role. Now I may not know everything there is to know about the man, but being passed on by 6 teams has to show that there were some serious deficiencies in his percieved ability to take on the full duties of a HC, much like Russ Grimm here in PIT. And not being re-signed by the Bears puts a dent in his DC resume and if Lovie is able to maintian the success that D has had without him, that will only discredit him more.
It's clear in Chicago that he's no longer there because of a few different reasons: a bit of difference in philosophy, Lovie Smith already has his replacement on Staff, Bob Babich, they've been friends for over 20 years since they were at Tulsa, and since the Bears will likely give Smith a new contract where he is paid 4 or 5 million a year, the front office won't retain Rivera because he was due a huge increase in pay. That doesn't make sense for them since Lovie already has his ideal replacement for him and a guy he's been waiting to give the job to for a while now. They thought Rivera would get a Head Coaching job but didn't so now Smith and the organization are saying they want to go in a different direction and people have to realize it was more than that. They definitely won't pay Rivera a million if Smith is getting 5 mill. There was also the thought that if Lovie didn't do well in the playoffs during his tenure that Rivera would be the likely fit. Like when Lovie was rumored to be going to Dallas this year, Rivera was talked about by everybody who discussed it as the lead candidate for the Bears job right away.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tom
In the long run this may be a good move, but he has to prove he can coach the 3-4. IMO he'll have to be a 3-4 DC before he becomes a HC, so he'll probably be out of the running for 2007+2008. If he can take over as DC next year, and be successful, he'll get a HC gig for 2009. If not, he's a gonner. So altough this could be a good move, remember it can also be a horrible one.
It's not like he had much of a choice, the Bears told him they didn't want him to come back.

I still think he'll be a Head Coach or DC next year. If the Chargers have another great year on defense that will only reflect well on him. If they don't, Cotrell could be gone and Rivera could be the new DC.

Best of luck Ron.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Rivera is way overrated, he's been interviewed 6 or 7 times for HC posirion and each time the owner and GM didn't like what they saw. I don't think he has what it takes to be a HC, somethings missing and I doubt he was the real DC for Chicago. Lovie Smith probably ran the defense himself and people around the league know it. I doubt anybody hires this guy as a DC, I think he is pretty much stuck as a position coach.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Things don't look so bad in Chargerville anymore. I love Rivera's attitude, asking on to the Chargers coaching staff, willing to try something new. He could have been understandably upset about being passed over for these jobs, but he's going into this with the attitude that he's going to improve himself individually and wants to help the team accomplish it's greater goal of a championship. The guy seems to have little ego. I love the mindset that his defense had of always looking to force turnovers.

LB coach was also an important hire, because it's more than likely that Cooper, Wilhelm and Dobbins are the primary inside backers in 07 and none of them have much starting experience. I think Chargers fans should be content with the new staff coming in. Both playbooks are being preserved, the cancerous element of the Schottenheimer/Smith relationship is gone and everyone is happy in this honeymoon period. It could have been a disaster, but I think everything worked out well in the end.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Things don't look so bad in Chargerville anymore. I love Rivera's attitude, asking on to the Chargers coaching staff, willing to try something new. He could have been understandably upset about being passed over for these jobs, but he's going into this with the attitude that he's going to improve himself individually and wants to help the team accomplish it's greater goal of a championship. The guy seems to have little ego. I love the mindset that his defense had of always looking to force turnovers.

LB coach was also an important hire, because it's more than likely that Cooper, Wilhelm and Dobbins are the primary inside backers in 07 and none of them have much starting experience. I think Chargers fans should be content with the new staff coming in. Both playbooks are being preserved, the cancerous element of the Schottenheimer/Smith relationship is gone and everyone is happy in this honeymoon period. It could have been a disaster, but I think everything worked out well in the end.
We'll see after San Diego wins 6 games how you feel. Your living in a dreamworld if you think these moves won't send the team into a tailspin. You can forget the playoffs, This was a panic hiring (Turner and Rivera) by Spanos and Smith and now San Diego fans will pay the price.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WildDude
not wit norv turner i say a 7-9 record... u heard it here first
The Chargers could coach themselves to a 10-6 record, Norv isn't the greatest HC but he has a good football mind. He'll do fine.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I see him going to Tampa if Gruden doesn't produce this year.
That is a great prediction. Good call.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Things don't look so bad in Chargerville anymore. I love Rivera's attitude, asking on to the Chargers coaching staff, willing to try something new. He could have been understandably upset about being passed over for these jobs, but he's going into this with the attitude that he's going to improve himself individually and wants to help the team accomplish it's greater goal of a championship. The guy seems to have little ego. I love the mindset that his defense had of always looking to force turnovers.

LB coach was also an important hire, because it's more than likely that Cooper, Wilhelm and Dobbins are the primary inside backers in 07 and none of them have much starting experience. I think Chargers fans should be content with the new staff coming in. Both playbooks are being preserved, the cancerous element of the Schottenheimer/Smith relationship is gone and everyone is happy in this honeymoon period. It could have been a disaster, but I think everything worked out well in the end.
We'll see after San Diego wins 6 games how you feel. Your living in a dreamworld if you think these moves won't send the team into a tailspin. You can forget the playoffs, This was a panic hiring (Turner and Rivera) by Spanos and Smith and now San Diego fans will pay the price.
Well, lets examine your post for what it is, step by step.

Could the Chargers win six games? Altogether possible, but dependent on a major injury or two to a cornerstone type player (one of maybe three or four guys on the team). Probably a blowup internally as well, and the teams on the schedule need to have very good seasons. Unlikely though.

Could these moves turn out to be bad moves, ultimately yes. By themselves send the team into a tailspin? I don't think so. I'll give you or anyone that there isn't much precedent for a team at this level to go through a coaching change. Two examples come to mind though, the Rams after 99 and the Cowboys after 93. In neither case the coaches hired to replace the outgoing regime were anything to shout about, but those teams still sustained some level of success for at least a few years. The ultimate decline happened mostly because of age, or injuries, same as any NFL team. Coaching can make average talent look good, but talent can also make average coaching look good.

Was it a panic hiring? It's not clear. If Turner were hired by the Cowboys instead of Phillips, would that be considered a panic hiring? I think they did a good job in a short period of time of lining up the candidates quickly, and ultimately, the Chargers hired two of the six guys they interviewed.

Some people might have argued that the lame duck status and frayed relationship between Marty and AJ had the potential to destroy the team. If nothing else the poison that existed there is gone, as I think it's important for talent evaluation purposes for the HC and GM to be on the same page.

I'm a Chargers fan so maybe I'm being too optimistic but I'm also trying to look at it from the standpoint of a realist. And trust me there are lots of fans in the city who are not happy with this hire, so I'm not trying to act as the pulse of the fans or anything.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Makes you wonder if hes not really the HC candidate he's been hyped up to be.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Makes you wonder if hes not really the HC candidate he's been hyped up to be.
well the bears screwed him over for doing this now all the coaching changes have been made he easily coulda gotten a DC job if they did this earlier
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Old 02-20-2007, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Could we see him as SD, HC if the chargers suck under Turner
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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If anyone honestly believes that a 14-2 team is going to slip to 6-10 by hiring the guy who architected their offense as the head coach, I have a bridge to sell you.
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Old 02-20-2007, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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:| He really could have found himself a better job. I'm sure Dallas would love to have him as DC...
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Old 02-20-2007, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by detroit4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
Makes you wonder if hes not really the HC candidate he's been hyped up to be.
well the bears screwed him over for doing this now all the coaching changes have been made he easily coulda gotten a DC job if they did this earlier
No...the Bears did him a favor by waiting to do it untill all the Head Coaching positions were full. If they would have let him go beforehand he would have had NO shot. Nor would he have been waiting around for DC spots if there were Head Coaching spots open. The Bears did the best for him that they could, and it's not like being a DC somewhere else would have mattered a whole hell of a lot. Oooh..he gets to be a DC for a worse defense? Yeah that'll definately boost his resume. This is the best move he could have made.
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Old 02-20-2007, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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If anyone honestly believes that a 14-2 team is going to slip to 6-10 by hiring the guy who architected their offense as the head coach, I have a bridge to sell you.
I agree with both you and SDChicken. It's not like Marty did a whole lot anyways. Remember, this is the same guy that made the Oakland Raiders offense look functional with the same personnel they have now minus Kerry Collins.
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