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Old 01-06-2008, 05:11 PM    (permalink
andyjo672
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Originally Posted by jayceheathman View Post
Its impossible to know whether or not to rent/lease or to buy a property. If you buy it you have to pay property tax and if you rent all you are paying is the rent money. If you buy a house then things will break down and you will have to have them replaced. Diswashers, A/C units, heaters, plumbing, will all wear down and you have to replace them. Those things arent cheap either. If you rent a lot of places will fix it for you. Its a tough call. If you bought a house in Las Vegas 10 years ago then you are laughing all the way to the bank.
Its never a question whether to rent or own. If you have the capital, and have a stable job that won't require to relocate often, you buy, build equity and acquire things that you actually own.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Its never a question whether to rent or own. If you have the capital, and have a stable job that won't require to relocate often, you buy, build equity and acquire things that you actually own.
Its more convenient to buy and not have people above or below bothering you. It sucks when you want to study and people across from you are having a party or vice versa. When you buy you have to pay property tax and that isnt cheap. At my parents house within the last 2 years they have had to replace both of the A/C units, the heater, the shower needed all new plumbing, the dishwasher needed to be replaced, 2 toilets had to be replaced, and the roof needed replaced. I believe they said it cost close to $40,000 and they havent got to the roof yet. They called insurance and it said it would cost close to $20,000 if not a little more to fix the roof. For that $60,000 I could live in a really nice apartment for almost 10 years just off of the cost it took to replace those items. Also when you buy you have to have someone waiting around all morning for the workers to come. If you cant find anyone to do it then you have to stay home from work and lose money. It can be more of hastle than people think.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Its more convenient to buy and not have people above or below bothering you. It sucks when you want to study and people across from you are having a party or vice versa. When you buy you have to pay property tax and that isnt cheap. At my parents house within the last 2 years they have had to replace both of the A/C units, the heater, the shower needed all new plumbing, the dishwasher needed to be replaced, 2 toilets had to be replaced, and the roof needed replaced. I believe they said it cost close to $40,000 and they havent got to the roof yet. They called insurance and it said it would cost close to $20,000 if not a little more to fix the roof. For that $60,000 I could live in a really nice apartment for almost 10 years just off of the cost it took to replace those items. Also when you buy you have to have someone waiting around all morning for the workers to come. If you cant find anyone to do it then you have to stay home from work and lose money. It can be more of hastle than people think.
Being a financial adviser, my job essentially comprises of telling people how to spend their money. And to hear someone telling other people that renting is a better financial decision than buying, makes me throw up a little bit.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Being a financial adviser, my job essentially comprises of telling people how to spend their money. And to hear someone telling other people that renting is a better financial decision than buying, makes me throw up a little bit.
I'm not saying buying isnt a bad decision but I am not dissing it and saying its always better over renting because it isnt. Its impossible to know which one is better. No one can predict which area people are going to want to buy in the future and as a financial advisor you should know that. If you did know it you would be a millionaire.
Time=money and renting saves you a ton of time because a lot of things the front desk can take care of. A/C is broken, no problem. When you buy you have to use up all day to wait around for the guy to come and fix/repair it. Its definitely the case with a bigger house. Do you want to use a sick day just so you can be around to let the guy in? With a bigger house you are probably going to have a bigger lawn. Do you want to use up time to do it or are you going to pay $50-60 to hire someone else to mow it? That adds up because it will need to be done probably once every 3 weeks.
Whether or not buying or renting is better depends on the person but financially no one knows that. Do you know how many foreclosures have gone on through the country during the housing bust? Everyone thought they could buy cheap, fix it up, and sell for a profit. Guess what? Those people are out a lot of money.
Your comment made me throw up a little.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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No offense but you might need to find yourself a new job then. I'm not saying buying isnt a bad decision but I am not dissing it and saying its always better over renting because it isnt. Its impossible to know which one is better. No one can predict which area people are going to want to buy in the future and as a financial advisor you should know that. If you did know it you would be a millionaire.
Time=money and renting saves you a ton of time because a lot of things the front desk can take care of. A/C is broken, no problem. When you buy you have to use up all day to wait around for the guy to come and fix/repair it. Its definitely the case with a bigger house. Do you want to use a sick day just so you can be around to let the guy in? With a bigger house you are probably going to have a bigger lawn. Do you want to use up time to do it or are you going to pay $50-60 to hire someone else to mow it? That adds up because it will need to be done probably once every 3 weeks.
Whether or not buying or renting is better depends on the person but financially no one knows that. Do you know how many foreclosures have gone on through the country during the housing bust? Everyone thought they could buy cheap, fix it up, and sell for a profit. Guess what? Those people are out a lot of money.
Your comment made me throw up a little.
Do you honestly believe what you're saying or are you argueing just to differ from generally accepted principles?

And considering the turn-over and net profits my company has and it's general stance on the buy v rent arguement i don't think i'll continue this arguement.

Oh and don't think this is just my opinion, i'm a 19 year old trainee that has only been doing this for 12 months, i'm not going to pretend i'm an expert. But what i have learnt is that in probably 80% of cases it's better to buy and if possible, (with a stable income and enough capital to set up a loan) buy a rental property to take advantage of these renters, sure it's more work but from a financial standpoint you're going to be much better off in the long run.

Sure this extra work isn't for everyone, especially not me, as evidenced by the fact i'm quitting in 2 months and travelling the world for a year. This means i'm going to be renting for a while yet, which i know is not the correct financial decision, but i value having fun over being rich at this stage in my life.

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Old 01-06-2008, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jayceheathman View Post
I'm not saying buying isnt a bad decision but I am not dissing it and saying its always better over renting because it isnt. Its impossible to know which one is better. No one can predict which area people are going to want to buy in the future and as a financial advisor you should know that. If you did know it you would be a millionaire.
Time=money and renting saves you a ton of time because a lot of things the front desk can take care of. A/C is broken, no problem. When you buy you have to use up all day to wait around for the guy to come and fix/repair it. Its definitely the case with a bigger house. Do you want to use a sick day just so you can be around to let the guy in? With a bigger house you are probably going to have a bigger lawn. Do you want to use up time to do it or are you going to pay $50-60 to hire someone else to mow it? That adds up because it will need to be done probably once every 3 weeks.
Whether or not buying or renting is better depends on the person but financially no one knows that. Do you know how many foreclosures have gone on through the country during the housing bust? Everyone thought they could buy cheap, fix it up, and sell for a profit. Guess what? Those people are out a lot of money.
Your comment made me throw up a little.
The number of foreclosures has nothing to do with the decision to buy or rent. People were dumb, lending agents were dumb, they overextended themselves and overestimated how much they could afford.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Do you honestly believe what you're saying or are you argueing just to differ from generally accepted principles?

And considering the turn-over and net profits my company has and it's general stance on the buy v rent arguement i don't think i'll continue this arguement.

Financially no one knows. I did an internship with Fidelity and everyone thinks the stock market will always go up 8%. It doesnt. Some times it goes up more and sometimes less. With the thought of a recession coming it will hurt the stock market and the housing market. Stock market and the housing market (buying a home) is basically the same thing. Try to buy low and sell high. I say if you want the house and will enjoy living in it for years to come then get it but dont do it just try to pull a quick profit.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:10 PM    (permalink
andyjo672
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I didnt know guys that couldnt spell arguing or argument could be a financial advisor.

If you think its always right then why arent you a millionaire/CEO of your company instead of just working there?

Maybe you can tell your "advice" to people that live 30 minutes from my place. A few years ago there used to be a man made lake and everyone "bought" a house since that is what their financial advisor told them to do and now all of that water from that lake has been taken out to fill a reservoir. All that is left in this million dollar neighorhood is a bunch of dirt where water used to be. Now the owners cant sell their house for 50% less because no one wants to look out their window and see a big hole.
So you cite one example of an instance when people's houses lost value because of an extremely rare happening. Anyone will tell you, the best investment and most surefire way to build equity is real estate ownership. And people can be perfectly successful without being the CEO, maybe he just started there, generally they dont hold open interviews for that person chucko.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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So you cite one example of an instance when people's houses lost value because of an extremely rare happening. Anyone will tell you, the best investment and most surefire way to build equity is real estate ownership. And people can be perfectly successful without being the CEO, maybe he just started there, generally they dont hold open interviews for that person chucko.
Okay then. Can you site many examples of people making a big profit off of real estate this last year? Real Estate is at an all time low. It doesnt look to me like too many people are making a profit "chucko." Outside of the normal NYC whose real estate always goes up and Las Vegas there isnt a huge market right now.

Its not the most "surefire" way to build equity. The most surefire way to build equity is putting your money into a mutual fund. I am not saying you cant be successful at selling real estate but if you chose the wrong location you could have been forced to sell for a loss. If you picked Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Albuquerque then you would be banking probably.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Do you honestly believe what you're saying or are you argueing just to differ from generally accepted principles?

And considering the turn-over and net profits my company has and it's general stance on the buy v rent arguement i don't think i'll continue this arguement.

Oh and don't think this is just my opinion, i'm a 19 year old trainee that has only been doing this for 12 months, i'm not going to pretend i'm an expert. But what i have learnt is that in probably 80% of cases it's better to buy and if possible, (with a stable income and enough capital to set up a loan) buy a rental property to take advantage of these renters, sure it's more work but from a financial standpoint you're going to be much better off in the long run.

Sure this extra work isn't for everyone, especially not me, as evidenced by the fact i'm quitting in 2 months and travelling the world for a year. This means i'm going to be renting for a while yet, which i know is not the correct financial decision, but i value having fun over being rich at this stage in my life.
Sorry about saying you need to find a new job. I think differently than you on this topic but I took it too far.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Financially no one knows. I did an internship with Fidelity and everyone thinks the stock market will always go up 8%. It doesnt. Some times it goes up more and sometimes less. With the thought of a recession coming it will hurt the stock market and the housing market. Stock market and the housing market (buying a home) is basically the same thing. Try to buy low and sell high. I say if you want the house and will enjoy living in it for years to come then get it but dont do it just try to pull a quick profit.

Sorry about saying you need a new job. I just got into the moment I guess.
Hahaha, i do need a new job, i hate this, you were more correct than you knew.

And i'm not a millionaire cause i'm a 19 year old still attending university with a work production rate of 38%. In other words i have no motivation because i really don't enjoy my job in the slightest

Anyway bringing up ridiculously rare examples is not the way to win an arguement such as this. Of course there is going to be outliers in any study, but when you stand back and look at the property market in most locations around the world you will see a sharp increase in prices in the last 15 years or so (sorry if this isn't exact for the US, i'm kinda basing this off Australia because thats what i know most about). Combine this with the fact that property is argueably the safest investment option (other than maybe bluechip stocks) it really is a good idea to get into the property market as soon as you financially are able.

Anyway, i'm at work now and i really do need to do something so i think i'll stop for a while
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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And about the spelling; typical American ignorance, believe it or not not every country in the world spells the same as you. We spell mom, mum for example. Shocking i know...
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Okay then. Can you site many examples of people making a big profit off of real estate this last year? Real Estate is at an all time low. It doesnt look to me like too many people are making a profit "chucko." Outside of the normal NYC whose real estate always goes up and Las Vegas there isnt a huge market right now.

Its not the most "surefire" way to build equity. The most surefire way to build equity is putting your money into a mutual fund. I am not saying you cant be successful at selling real estate but if you chose the wrong location you could have been forced to sell for a loss. If you picked Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Albuquerque then you would be banking probably.
About mutual funds, you're right, you're not going to lose money, but you wont get the level of returns as you do with real estate. And real estate markets run on cycles, generally 7 years or so, so yes, if you bought a house this year, its probably lost some value, but becaues you generally own homes for longer than a year, you'll be just fine in a few years. Oh, and by the way, my 401(k), based mostly on mutual funds, hasnt been positive this year. Leave this kinds of talks to the adults.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Okay then. Can you site many examples of people making a big profit off of real estate this last year? Real Estate is at an all time low. It doesnt look to me like too many people are making a profit "chucko." Outside of the normal NYC whose real estate always goes up and Las Vegas there isnt a huge market right now.

Its not the most "surefire" way to build equity. The most surefire way to build equity is putting your money into a mutual fund. I am not saying you cant be successful at selling real estate but if you chose the wrong location you could have been forced to sell for a loss. If you picked Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Albuquerque then you would be banking probably.
Dude property is a LONG term investment type of thing. Those people selling up this year are more than likely selling only because they are desperate for cashflow, that or they're mildly ********
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Leave this kinds of talks to the adults.
I'm no adult, and i know nothing about the subject. But i still would like to talk about it
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:31 PM    (permalink
jayceheathman
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Hahaha, i do need a new job, i hate this, you were more correct than you knew.

And i'm not a millionaire cause i'm a 19 year old still attending university with a work production rate of 38%. In other words i have no motivation because i really don't enjoy my job in the slightest

Anyway bringing up ridiculously rare examples is not the way to win an arguement such as this. Of course there is going to be outliers in any study, but when you stand back and look at the property market in most locations around the world you will see a sharp increase in prices in the last 15 years or so (sorry if this isn't exact for the US, i'm kinda basing this off Australia because thats what i know most about). Combine this with the fact that property is argueably the safest investment option (other than maybe bluechip stocks) it really is a good idea to get into the property market as soon as you financially are able.

Anyway, i'm at work now and i really do need to do something so i think i'll stop for a while
We were citing different examples. I know nothing about how homes have been selling in Australia. In the U.S at the moment its at an all time low. The dollar is down compared to everything, inflation has been rising, and home sales have lowered rediculously.

I'm not stating buying is bad but when you do its a risk just like buying in the stock market. Your not guaranteeing yourself a profit.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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We were citing different examples. I know nothing about how homes have been selling in Australia. In the U.S at the moment its at an all time low. The dollar is down compared to everything, inflation has been rising, and home sales have lowered rediculously.

I'm not stating buying is bad but when you do its a risk just like buying in the stock market. Your not guaranteeing yourself a profit.
Actually, you are pretty much guaranteed a profit even in relation to inflation.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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We were citing different examples. I know nothing about how homes have been selling in Australia. In the U.S at the moment its at an all time low. The dollar is down compared to everything, inflation has been rising, and home sales have lowered rediculously.

I'm not stating buying is bad but when you do its a risk just like buying in the stock market. Your not guaranteeing yourself a profit.
There isn't an investment in the world that is guaranteed. But there are some that are bloody close. And in the long term, an educated purchase in the property market happens to be one of them

The Australian economy is always generally going to follow trends seen in the American economy, but then again, i don't expect you to know that
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Dude property is a LONG term investment type of thing. Those people selling up this year are more than likely selling only because they are desperate for cashflow, that or they're mildly ********
Very true but a home is a lot more upkeep. I guess it depends if you are willing to spend a lot of time and money to keep it looking nice or if you would rather be doing something different with your time. I believe more of it is luck and buying into an area where people will want to buy in the future. If you keep your house in a nice and tidy condition then you could make a return off of it. Its tough in the U.S to find out if you would have made a lot of money because you can buy a lot less with your money right now than you could say 10 years ago.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Very true but a home is a lot more upkeep. I guess it depends if you are willing to spend a lot of time and money to keep it looking nice or if you would rather be doing something different with your time. I believe more of it is luck and buying into an area where people will want to buy in the future. If you keep your house in a nice and tidy condition then you could make a return off of it. Its tough in the U.S to find out if you would have made a lot of money because you can buy a lot less with your money right now than you could say 10 years ago.
Well i'm sorry but in my opinion, that arguement is just plain wrong. Upkeep of a house is not as important as you say it is. It's all location, and only location (unless you're buying and renting it out). And doesn't the bit about being able to buy less with your money right now than you could 10 years ago kind of destroy your own arguement?
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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There isn't an investment in the world that is guaranteed. But there are some that are bloody close. And in the long term, an educated purchase in the property market happens to be one of them

The Australian economy is always generally going to follow trends seen in the American economy, but then again, i don't expect you to know that
You arent going to make a huge amount though unless you get lucky. The opportunity cost would be to put the money in a mutual fund or savings account. My savings account pays out 4.3% a year. If you would keep that house for 5 years then it better pay out 22% more than what you paid or it wouldnt have been worth it.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Well i'm sorry but in my opinion, that arguement is just plain wrong. Upkeep of a house is not as important as you say it is. It's all location, and only location (unless you're buying and renting it out). And doesn't the bit about being able to buy less with your money right now than you could 10 years ago kind of destroy your own arguement?
Time is money my friend, time is money. Have your parents ever made you stay home on a weekend to wait for a repair guy to come? I know I have. They always schedule it to for like 8am and I would much rather be sleeping. I dont even own the house but I get stuck waiting around and the guys never come when they say they would.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Congratulations and good luck with that...whens the first NFLDC house party? ;)

yeah ill bring the beer with my fake ID



congrads on the house also
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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You arent going to make a huge amount though unless you get lucky. The opportunity cost would be to put the money in a mutual fund or savings account. My savings account pays out 4.3% a year. If you would keep that house for 5 years then it better pay out 22% more than what you paid or it wouldnt have been worth it.
Yeah but even if you only get a 22% return on a house over 5 years (pretty unlikely really) it's next to gauranteed it's going to outstrip that return by a fair margin in future years.

And lets not even go into the inflationary issues associated with that 4.3% interest on your investment account.
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