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Old 01-04-2008, 06:06 PM    (permalink
dolfan
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Default dolphins draft

1) Chris Long DE
2) Tracy Porter CB
2) Tony Hills LT
3) Adarius Bowman WR
4) Vince hall LB
6) Will Arnold G
7) Darrien Williams S

chris long creates the pass rush we need to stop the run.

tracy porter provides speed and athletiscm to our dying SECONDARY.

tony hills gives us good depth and may be our starting RT, could be great with coaching.

ADarius Bowman falls to us luckly. Provides speed body frame and good game experience at our weak WR posistion.

Vince Hall is a proven LB who played against tough RBs.. hits like wood has speed and has vision.

will arnold falls because of game play but fits us perfect because is a proven GUARD woh played good DLman.

darrien williams falls to us because of injuries and playing time but gives us a sleeper S who gives us depth and can start.. has good body movement and plays strong
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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1) Chris Long DE
2) Tracy Porter CB
2) Tony Hills LT
3) Adarius Bowman WR
4) Vince hall LB
6) Will Arnold G
7) Darrien Williams S

chris long creates the pass rush we need to stop the run.

tracy porter provides speed and athletiscm to our dying SECONDARY.

tony hills gives us good depth and may be our starting RT, could be great with coaching.

ADarius Bowman falls to us luckly. Provides speed body frame and good game experience at our weak WR posistion.

Vince Hall is a proven LB who played against tough RBs.. hits like wood has speed and has vision.

will arnold falls because of game play but fits us perfect because is a proven GUARD woh played good DLman.

darrien williams falls to us because of injuries and playing time but gives us a sleeper S who gives us depth and can start.. has good body movement and plays strong

I dont see any way Vince Hall falls out of the 2nd round, and at the very least he's a mid 3rd rounder. No way he drops to the 4th.

Will Arnold in the 6th? Please. He could go going as high as the 3rd/4th at this point.

Darien Williams has too much upside to last til round 7. He's another mid round candidate.

You have way, way too many guys falling way to far for this to be realistic. I mean, Porter, Hills, Bowman and Hall are all guys that are looking right now like they could line up to be taken in the 2nd round. Yet you have us getting all those guys as low as the 4th.

I think something more realistic goes like this:

1- Chris Long, DE/OLB, Virginia
2a- Chris Williams, LT, Vanderbilt
2b- Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy
3- DJ Hall, WR, Alabama
4- Jason Shirley, DT, Frenso State
6- Curtis Gatewood, LB, Vanderbilt
7- Andrew Bain, OG, Miami (FL)
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Old 01-05-2008, 01:12 AM    (permalink
thebow305
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Hall doesn't fit our system, almost no way bowman falls out of 2nd round, hills doesn't look like the big offensive tackle type we usually go after, will arnold will probably go undrafted because he cannot play every snap anymore because he has very bad knees, and darien williams lost his starting FS spot this season and when he is in there he gets burned way more often than not.

Other than that its GREAT!

Really man, I would probably shank myself if we drafted like that.

My more realistic draft goes like this:

Round 1) Vernon Gholston, OLB, Ohio State
Round 2a) Dre Moore, NT, Maryland
Round 2b) Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
Round 3) Trae Williams, CB, South Florida
Round 4) Tavares Gooden, ILB, Miami
Round 6) Steve Johnson, WR, Kentucky
Round 7) Derrick Morse, OG, Miami
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Hall doesn't fit our system, almost no way bowman falls out of 2nd round, hills doesn't look like the big offensive tackle type we usually go after, will arnold will probably go undrafted because he cannot play every snap anymore because he has very bad knees, and darien williams lost his starting FS spot this season and when he is in there he gets burned way more often than not.

Other than that its GREAT!

Really man, I would probably shank myself if we drafted like that.

My more realistic draft goes like this:

Round 1) Vernon Gholston, OLB, Ohio State
Round 2a) Dre Moore, NT, Maryland
Round 2b) Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
Round 3) Trae Williams, CB, South Florida
Round 4) Tavares Gooden, ILB, Miami
Round 6) Steve Johnson, WR, Kentucky
Round 7) Derrick Morse, OG, Miami
Please, tell me, what exactly is realistic about Gholston going number 2 overall? Not gonna happen. Tavares Gooden? Is that serious? He's a cover 2 WLB in the NFL. Parcells loves the 3-4 and loves having big LBs. No way we draft Gooden. Last I checked, Derrick Morse was going back to Miami because he got a medical redshirt. He's not even gonna be in this draft.
Steve Johnson is going way before round 6.

The only realistic picks you have are Dre Moore, Chris Williams and Trae Williams.

Can't believe you told that guy Hall doesn't fit our system and then left the need to list Tavares Gooden. Neither fit our system but Hall is far and away closer then Gooden is. At least Hall can play ILB. Oh and you do realise that Gooden is going in the 1st day.

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Please, tell me, what exactly is realistic about Gholston going number 2 overall? Not gonna happen. Tavares Gooden? Is that serious? He's a cover 2 WLB in the NFL. Parcells loves the 3-4 and loves having big LBs. No way we draft Gooden. Last I checked, Derrick Morse was going back to Miami because he got a medical redshirt. He's not even gonna be in this draft.
Steve Johnson is going way before round 6.

The only realistic picks you have are Dre Moore, Chris Williams and Trae Williams.

Can't believe you told that guy Hall doesn't fit our system and then left the need to list Tavares Gooden. Neither fit our system but Hall is far and away closer then Gooden is. At least Hall can play ILB. Oh and you do realise that Gooden is going in the 1st day.
You have to be one of the most unknowledgeable posters on this site....and you prove it time and time again.

Gooden is not a weakside backer, he is strongside is anything. But he has played all three positions at Miami. He has the speed to do it, as I believe he ran as fast as in the high 4.4's this past offseason in workouts at UM. He played Weakside his sophomore year, then he gained some weight and played strongside his junior year, then got even bigger and played MLB at Miami this year, and did a DAMN good job at it. He isn't a good fit at MLB in a 3-4 like Parcells likes? Ok... who was one of Parcells MLB's in Dallas in HIS 3-4?? Bradie James, who happens to be one of the best in the league. What is his size you ask??? 6'2" 239 lbs. What is Gooden's size?? I'll answer that one for you. 6'2" 238. And yes he may go sooner than that, but players always fall that you don't expect, that is being realistic, if you don't get that, you are far more ignorant than I thought, and THAT is saying something. That also goes for Steve Johnson as well, who no one nows exactly at this point where he might end up. Scott has him ranked as the number 17 wideout right now and that would put him squarely around the 4-6 round range possibly.

You want me to tell you what is realistic about Gholston going to us at number 1?? The question I propose to you is, what isn't realistic about it?? He is Parcell's favorite type of player, the hybrid, who he drafted in NE with McGinest, who he had in New York with LT, and who he drafted in Dallas at number 10 with DaMarcus Ware. And judging on how successful they have been, combined with the recent success of more hybrids such as Merriman, our own Joey Porter, or Julian Peterson to name a few, it isn't hard to see why this could be the choice. Throw in the fact you have Chris Long as our possible pick and have him listed the same as a DE/OLB, and Gholston is much faster and stronger, it only seems the most realistic to me, but you be the judge, I guess.

Real smart post, you continue to amaze me. Just stop.
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Hall doesn't fit our system, almost no way bowman falls out of 2nd round, hills doesn't look like the big offensive tackle type we usually go after, will arnold will probably go undrafted because he cannot play every snap anymore because he has very bad knees, and darien williams lost his starting FS spot this season and when he is in there he gets burned way more often than not.

Other than that its GREAT!

Really man, I would probably shank myself if we drafted like that.

My more realistic draft goes like this:

Round 1) Vernon Gholston, OLB, Ohio State
Round 2a) Dre Moore, NT, Maryland
Round 2b) Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
Round 3) Trae Williams, CB, South Florida
Round 4) Tavares Gooden, ILB, Miami
Round 6) Steve Johnson, WR, Kentucky
Round 7) Derrick Morse, OG, Miami
I dont see Gholston as a number 1 overall type talent. Honestly I would rather have Jake Long and be sure of our oline for the next decade then Gholston reached for. Even though I think he is a nice player but too many ??? for him there but maybe that is me personally. Still I would like him there better then Chris Long at least.

Dre Moore makes my "toes tingle"
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Old 01-05-2008, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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You have to be one of the most unknowledgeable posters on this site....and you prove it time and time again.

Gooden is not a weakside backer, he is strongside is anything. But he has played all three positions at Miami. He has the speed to do it, as I believe he ran as fast as in the high 4.4's this past offseason in workouts at UM. He played Weakside his sophomore year, then he gained some weight and played strongside his junior year, then got even bigger and played MLB at Miami this year, and did a DAMN good job at it. He isn't a good fit at MLB in a 3-4 like Parcells likes? Ok... who was one of Parcells MLB's in Dallas in HIS 3-4?? Bradie James, who happens to be one of the best in the league. What is his size you ask??? 6'2" 239 lbs. What is Gooden's size?? I'll answer that one for you. 6'2" 238.
So just because Bradie James and Tavares Gooden are the same size, suddenly they are the same player. Playing MLB at Miami and playing ILB in Bill Parcells 3-4 are two completely different things. Ask Jon Vilma, he'll show you. Gooden is a cover-2 OLB in the NFL. WLB or SLB can be debated but he is a cover-2 OLB. Look at the recent tradition of Cane backers, Vilma, DJ, Morgan, Beason are all excelling in cover 2 style systems. As soon as the Jets went to a 3-4, Vilma game dropped off. That is the type of backer the Canes use and the type of backer they produce. Gooden isn't a 3-4 backer, plain and simple. Bradie James while smaller then a typical 3-4 LB has a style of play that fits well in the 3-4. Gooden doesn't fit with it at all.

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That also goes for Steve Johnson as well, who no one nows exactly at this point where he might end up. Scott has him ranked as the number 17 wideout right now and that would put him squarely around the 4-6 round range possibly.
You wanna know where the 17th WR went last season? Round 3. But good job, this year you have him going all the way in round 6. Very realistic.

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You want me to tell you what is realistic about Gholston going to us at number 1?? The question I propose to you is, what isn't realistic about it?? He is Parcell's favorite type of player, the hybrid, who he drafted in NE with McGinest, who he had in New York with LT, and who he drafted in Dallas at number 10 with DaMarcus Ware. And judging on how successful they have been, combined with the recent success of more hybrids such as Merriman, our own Joey Porter, or Julian Peterson to name a few, it isn't hard to see why this could be the choice. Throw in the fact you have Chris Long as our possible pick and have him listed the same as a DE/OLB, and Gholston is much faster and stronger, it only seems the most realistic to me, but you be the judge, I guess.
I haven't seen a mock draft by anyone all season that has Gholston in the top 5. Much less at number 1. Chris Long on the other hand has been going consistently in the top 3 and has been number 1 overall several different times. Let's you know what people are thinking about these guys. Not to mention Chris Long is coming off a better season, arguably the best season by a D player this year. And he has NFL ties which will help him handle the change in way of life better which makes him a safer pick and the fact he is seen as a better prospect all around. You can see why Chris Long is rated as the better prospect.

Besides don't act like you really thought Gholston is a number 1 overall guy. You were pulling for him after last year's draft after you thought we were gonna have a decent season and a middle of the 1st pick.
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Old 01-05-2008, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Do you have a link or something to Morse coming back? I didn't hear anything about that.

As for some of the other stuff, I'd be very shocked to see Vince Hall go in the 2nd, 3/4 makes much more sense and depending on which junior backers come out I'd expect he should be there around the top of the 4th.

I'd be shocked to see Arnold drafted. Some one might take a shot on Williams in the 5th/6th area but 7th seems reasonable.

Bowman seems like a solid 2nd rounder, shuffling Bowman up to the first 2nd, Porter to the other 2nd and Hills to the third makes a lot more sense (though that may be a bit high for Hills depending on his health).

While Gooden isn't a great fit for our defense he isn't a cover/tampa 2 style only guy either. He could fit in any type of 4-3 defense, but I'd keep him away from 3-4s. As for UM backers, Beason is a guy that would have worked in a 3-4 (there was a lot of talk about him with the Pats I think) and the only backer that is more of a cover 2 guy is Vilma.
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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So just because Bradie James and Tavares Gooden are the same size, suddenly they are the same player. Playing MLB at Miami and playing ILB in Bill Parcells 3-4 are two completely different things. Ask Jon Vilma, he'll show you. Gooden is a cover-2 OLB in the NFL. WLB or SLB can be debated but he is a cover-2 OLB. Look at the recent tradition of Cane backers, Vilma, DJ, Morgan, Beason are all excelling in cover 2 style systems. As soon as the Jets went to a 3-4, Vilma game dropped off. That is the type of backer the Canes use and the type of backer they produce. Gooden isn't a 3-4 backer, plain and simple. Bradie James while smaller then a typical 3-4 LB has a style of play that fits well in the 3-4. Gooden doesn't fit with it at all.



You wanna know where the 17th WR went last season? Round 3. But good job, this year you have him going all the way in round 6. Very realistic.



I haven't seen a mock draft by anyone all season that has Gholston in the top 5. Much less at number 1. Chris Long on the other hand has been going consistently in the top 3 and has been number 1 overall several different times. Let's you know what people are thinking about these guys. Not to mention Chris Long is coming off a better season, arguably the best season by a D player this year. And he has NFL ties which will help him handle the change in way of life better which makes him a safer pick and the fact he is seen as a better prospect all around. You can see why Chris Long is rated as the better prospect.

Besides don't act like you really thought Gholston is a number 1 overall guy. You were pulling for him after last year's draft after you thought we were gonna have a decent season and a middle of the 1st pick.
Just because Gooden is from the same school as Vilma, Williams, Morgan, and Beason, it doesn't mean he is the same type of player. That is a TERRIBLE argument. He is much better suited, IMO, to play ILB in the 3-4 than any of them with the exception of of DJ, who is the closest player to him in comparison of their skills. It's not just Bradie James, Akin Ayodele is the same size as him as are Foote and Farrior from Pitt's 3-4. He is strong enough and fast enough to play inside in the 3-4, or outside/inside in the 4-3. Although he isn't my favorite choice for the spot (Maualuga or Laurinaitis), we could get him a lot later and at better value.

I said the 4-6 round range for Johnson, and he could fall a little bit, because good players always do, and I'm not the realistic one? Good argument once again.
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Just because Gooden is from the same school as Vilma, Williams, Morgan, and Beason, it doesn't mean he is the same type of player. That is a TERRIBLE argument. He is much better suited, IMO, to play ILB in the 3-4 than any of them with the exception of of DJ, who is the closest player to him in comparison of their skills. It's not just Bradie James, Akin Ayodele is the same size as him as are Foote and Farrior from Pitt's 3-4. He is strong enough and fast enough to play inside in the 3-4, or outside/inside in the 4-3. Although he isn't my favorite choice for the spot (Maualuga or Laurinaitis), we could get him a lot later and at better value.

I said the 4-6 round range for Johnson, and he could fall a little bit, because good players always do, and I'm not the realistic one? Good argument once again.

Ok, bro. This is pointless. When the draft comes around and Gooden goes to a team that plays cover-2 and he's an OLB, I'm gonna come back and here point it out.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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So what's the general consensus here on where the dolphins will be going with their first round pick; dorsey, long or gholston? Gholston to me didn't seem to have a good enough game to warrant a first overal selection, but than dorsey didn't play lights out either. However, i do feel a DT with dorsey's ability is more of a rarity in general.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Ok, bro. This is pointless. When the draft comes around and Gooden goes to a team that plays cover-2 and he's an OLB, I'm gonna come back and here point it out.
wouldn't make a difference. Doesn't matter, if he goes to a cover-2 team, what would that prove? He doesn't choose where he goes or what system he fits in best, Carriker was projected as a 3-4 end by everyone, and looked like a damn good prospect there, someone like Aaron Smith in Pittsburgh. Yet, he got drafted into a 4-3 in St. Louis where he is a tackle now, which is fine, but IMO, a little out of position and is being misused..because the 3-4 would have suited him much better. You just don't get it I guess. So yes, this argument is pointless, think what you want.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Here is my take based on what Parcells and Ireland usually do .... no trades .... they love established school players ...

1. Chris Long (DE)
2a. Shawn Crable (OLB)
2b. Chris Williams (OT)
3. Adrian Arrington (WR)
4. Kendall Langford (DE)
5. DeJuan Tribble (CB)
6. Red Bryant (NT)
7. Kyle Wright (QB)
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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Here is my take based on what Parcells and Ireland usually do .... no trades .... they love established school players ...

1. Chris Long (DE)
2a. Shawn Crable (OLB)
2b. Chris Williams (OT)
3. Adrian Arrington (WR)
4. Kendall Langford (DE)
5. DeJuan Tribble (CB)
6. Red Bryant (NT)
7. Kyle Wright (QB)
Wouldn't be a bad draft at all. Not a big fan of Crable, so I would like to see what other OLB's are there, but it could work. If we draft Kyle Wright, I might shank myself.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Here is my take based on what Parcells and Ireland usually do .... no trades .... they love established school players ...

1. Chris Long (DE)
2a. Shawn Crable (OLB)
2b. Chris Williams (OT)
3. Adrian Arrington (WR)
4. Kendall Langford (DE)
5. DeJuan Tribble (CB)
6. Red Bryant (NT)
7. Kyle Wright (QB)
Wouldn't be a bad draft at all. Not a big fan of Crable, so I would like to see what other OLB's are there, but it could work. I doubt Tribble and Bryant fall that far though. If we draft Kyle Wright, I might shank myself.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingjames View Post
Here is my take based on what Parcells and Ireland usually do .... no trades .... they love established school players ...

1. Chris Long (DE)
2a. Shawn Crable (OLB)
2b. Chris Williams (OT)
3. Adrian Arrington (WR)
4. Kendall Langford (DE)
5. DeJuan Tribble (CB)
6. Red Bryant (NT)
7. Kyle Wright (QB)
Wouldn't be a bad draft at all. Not a big fan of Crable, so I would like to see what other OLB's are there, but it could work. I doubt Tribble and Bryant fall that far though. If we draft Kyle Wright though, I might shank myself.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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I want Gholston at number one, not Dorsey, although I wouldn't hate Dorsey, just would like Gholston more. I kinda don't want Chris Long though, that pick would be very unexciting. I would love to just trade down though and nab Gholston a couple picks lower and stockpile a third and maybe a second as well to try to trade back up into the middle of the first and nab either one of the Jenkins corners as well, that would be something special, add in Dre Moore, Red Bryant, or Terrance Taylor at NT later in draft and an OL like Branden Albert or Barry Richardson and it would be a WRAP!!

Something like this:

1a) Vernon Gholston, DE/OLB, Ohio State
1b) Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
3) Dre Moore, NT, Maryland
4) Steve Johnson, WR, Kentucky
6) Branden Albert, OL, Virginia
7) Louis Holmes, DE, Arizona

Add in a signing of Asante Samuel or Marcus Trufant, Bobby Carpenter, and Flozell Adams and we are on our way! :)

Imagine a young secondary of:

FS Jason Allen
SS Yeremiah Bell
CB Asante Samuel
CB Mike Jenkins

...and add in Will Allen as the nickel.

That would be something! What a turnaround that would be.

Overall the new defense would look something like this:

DE - Rodrique Wright
NT - Dre Moore
DE - Vonnie Holliday
LOLB - Vernon Gholston
LILB - Zach Thomas
RILB - Channing Crowder
ROLB - Jason Taylor
CB - Asante Samuel
FS - Jason Allen
SS - Yeremiah Bell
CB - Mike Jenkins

Top Backups: OLB Joey Porter, DE Louis Holmes, NT, Paul Soliai, CB, Will Allen, S Renaldo Hill.

Much improved if you ask me.

We'll see, hope it looks similar in April.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Hey thebow, I agree with you that gholston is gonna go top 6 and i can see first overall, but has there been any indication from the FO as to where they are leaning?

Also, i figured i'd share this little story, i had someone who runs their own draft site (not sure which one), actually say that he wouldn't draft gholston in the top 10 and would push for the first round. How can an apparant "draft expert" be this far off? Is there something about him that i'm missing? Solid against the run, can bull rush and collapse the pokcet against the Olineman with good footwark and can simply run past the lineman with bad footwork. Is a smart player with good instincts and watches film. No apparent characters problems or injuries. May not be too fluid in coverage, but that takes time.. So, is there something im missing haha?
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
Hey thebow, I agree with you that gholston is gonna go top 6 and i can see first overall, but has there been any indication from the FO as to where they are leaning?

Also, i figured i'd share this little story, i had someone who runs their own draft site (not sure which one), actually say that he wouldn't draft gholston in the top 10 and would push for the first round. How can an apparant "draft expert" be this far off? Is there something about him that i'm missing? Solid against the run, can bull rush and collapse the pokcet against the Olineman with good footwark and can simply run past the lineman with bad footwork. Is a smart player with good instincts and watches film. No apparent characters problems or injuries. May not be too fluid in coverage, but that takes time.. So, is there something im missing haha?
No you're not really missing anything. If someone thinks he is that far off then the only thing I could see is if they find him using performance enhancers or something like that. Gholston has to be one of the most ripped, physically gifted athletes I have ever seen and although it may be all natural, I question it a little but. Other than that, he is a little shaky in coverage, but as you said that will come in time with the right coaching. He can bull rush the best pass blockers in the game because of his incredible strengh and will be a threat to get to the QB early and often in his career because of that strength as well as a quick first step off of the snap, which could lead to him being one of the game's elite pass rushers.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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He is also a film room junkie from what I have heard from numerous sources, and those are the types of players Parcells truly covets, the ones who take football very serious and truly love it. So if that is any indicator....
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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Duplicate post...
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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damn duplicate post again
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Thanks a lot man, i was pretty sure i wasn't missing anything, but just wanted to check with you, becuase you seem to be as high on him as i am. I can definately see you guys going that way, but i'll tell ya i really don't want to play him twice a year haha.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Any reson why you Miami fans shutter at the thought of getting a top notch OT in Jake Long? I disticntly remember you all hating to see Levi Brown being taken for you guys last year. Just asking.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Any reson why you Miami fans shutter at the thought of getting a top notch OT in Jake Long? I disticntly remember you all hating to see Levi Brown being taken for you guys last year. Just asking.
many feel that Vernan Carey can be a top flight LT, when you look at the stats he was solid this year. They also view jake long as a Right Tackle in the future, which you cant blame them for it. Also Parcells I believe, correct me if I am wrong, likes to take later round linemen and mold them not top area ones on the o-line.

I think the primary thing we need to do is trade back(of course) if not take the best impact player we can with the Highest possible potential.

In my eyes that is one of the following 3.

Glenn Dorsey Defensive biggest talent
Jake Long O-Line
Darren McFadden RB

Now even though there is no clue if Brown comes back I dont see Mcfadden as the pick, I dont think we take a top RB with brown on the payroll and with his potential.

I still dont think Gholston is the elite type of talent some think he is, I just havent seen it.

i think dorsey or Jake Long fit best if we dont trade back
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