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Old 01-15-2008, 05:57 PM    (permalink
iloxygenil
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And before '07 brady had absolutely nobody outiside of Deion Branch...
Yeah...you're right...hardly...give me a break...his weapons don't get NEARLY the love they deserve. That team could not FUNCTION without Faulk...without that offensive line...yes Branch was a stud...but he had good complimentary receivers as well...PLEASE tell me that Brown was a lackluster weapon...put down the pipe.

People make SO many excuses for Brady and the Patriots (2001 Super Bowl) makes me SO mad. Brady would be absolutely NOTHING without Adam Vinatieri. The Patriots FO is special...but Brady gets FAR too much credit...that is the best offensive line anywhere and has been...I know it's hopeless to argue with people about Tom 'loverboy' Brady but he's not GOAT or even top 10.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Not yet, neither Brady or Manning yet.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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It's way to early to even be having this conversation. Is he one of the best QB's ever? Unquestionably. Anyone who doubts that has absolutely zero credibility.

But I wouldn't call him the best... yet, and I may never. He's got another 6-8 years left in him, and I am sure when he gets to the point where Favre or Marino or Montana are in their careers now, I am sure the numbers will stack up very comparably.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Yeah...you're right...hardly...give me a break...his weapons don't get NEARLY the love they deserve. That team could not FUNCTION without Faulk...without that offensive line...yes Branch was a stud...but he had good complimentary receivers as well...PLEASE tell me that Brown was a lackluster weapon...put down the pipe.

People make SO many excuses for Brady and the Patriots (2001 Super Bowl) makes me SO mad. Brady would be absolutely NOTHING without Adam Vinatieri. The Patriots FO is special...but Brady gets FAR too much credit...that is the best offensive line anywhere and has been...I know it's hopeless to argue with people about Tom 'loverboy' Brady but he's not GOAT or even top 10.
This has to be a joke. Last time I checked, this is a team sport. Adam Vinatieri would be nothing without Tom Brady or the Patriots defense. How about them apples? It took a team to put Tom Brady in the position he's in just like any other player. Tedy Bruschi can't do what he does if 10 other guys aren't doing their job. Dan Koppen can't do what he does without 10 other guys doing their job.

Brady gets the credit because he is absolutely incredible. That's all there is to it. He is one of the smartest QB's ever to play the game, he does everything right. He is in the position he is in because he put himself there.

He took a team to the AFC Championship game last year and the WR's he threw to combined for 51 receptions this year, 36 of them by Jabar Gaffney. Yet everyone wants to talk about how it's everyone else making him great.

Tom Brady has already proven, at this point in his career, that he is the best of his generation, and at worst, he's tied with Manning. Great, Vinitiari kicked a FG to win the game. But Tom Brady led them on one of the gutsiest, most clutch drives in NFL history to put him in that position. John Madden sat in the booth and questioned why they weren't just going for overtime and then stood speechless as he moved the team down the field. All with under a minute left. If Tom Brady doesn't put them there, that game is in overtime and who knows what would have happened. How quickly people forget...

Adam Vinitiari is a Hall Of Fame kicker because he played on a team that put him in a position to make big kicks. The argument works both ways.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Well Jay just pretty beat me to making you look like a complete ass hole.


I don't think we can really put up the question of if a player is the GOAT until after they retire. Sure Brady can go on and win 6 or 7 super bowls and when it's all over be considered the GOAT. He can also just as easily get hurt and never be able to preform at the level he is at right now.

The decisions Brady makes are just incredible, it is hard to imagine him getting much better then he is as of right now.

Brady > Manning

but this isn't nothing new I've been saying it all a long.
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Old 01-15-2008, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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This has to be a joke. Last time I checked, this is a team sport. Adam Vinatieri would be nothing without Tom Brady or the Patriots defense. How about them apples? It took a team to put Tom Brady in the position he's in just like any other player. Tedy Bruschi can't do what he does if 10 other guys aren't doing their job. Dan Koppen can't do what he does without 10 other guys doing their job.

Brady gets the credit because he is absolutely incredible. That's all there is to it. He is one of the smartest QB's ever to play the game, he does everything right. He is in the position he is in because he put himself there.

He took a team to the AFC Championship game last year and the WR's he threw to combined for 51 receptions this year, 36 of them by Jabar Gaffney. Yet everyone wants to talk about how it's everyone else making him great.

Tom Brady has already proven, at this point in his career, that he is the best of his generation, and at worst, he's tied with Manning. Great, Vinitiari kicked a FG to win the game. But Tom Brady led them on one of the gutsiest, most clutch drives in NFL history to put him in that position. John Madden sat in the booth and questioned why they weren't just going for overtime and then stood speechless as he moved the team down the field. All with under a minute left. If Tom Brady doesn't put them there, that game is in overtime and who knows what would have happened. How quickly people forget...

Adam Vinitiari is a Hall Of Fame kicker because he played on a team that put him in a position to make big kicks. The argument works both ways.
I'm well aware that this is a team sport...but you're giving the QB all the credit...why shouldn't I give the credit to the guy who scored the most points on the team? So this year it'd be Gostkowski...again not Brady...sounds fair to me. But this IS a team thing...and Brady is on one of the greatest TEAMS of all time, it's not by his doing that he is getting all this praise. Sure he puts in the work that he needs to, but he's not going out and fitting the balls in tight spots or carrying a team on his back...I'm just YEARNING for another QB to be put on THAT team given the same coaching and stuff and you'd see that Brady isn't that special...it's the organization.
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Old 01-15-2008, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Top Ten Reasons Tom Brady in the greatest QB of all time…

10. He has won three Super Bowls (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX), two Super Bowl MVP awards (XXXVI and XXXVIII)
9. Holds the NFL record for most touchdown passes in a single regular season (50)
8. Best Season a QB has ever had in 2007. Highest single-season quarterback rating: 117.2; Lowest interception total, season (minimum 2 starts): 8; Largest touchdown to interception difference: +42
7. Best Playoff QB of all time… Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII) Highest completion percentage in a single game, minimum 20 attempts (26 of 28, 92.9%, against Jacksonville in 2007 AFC Divisional round)
6. 86-24 (regular season), 99-26 (career) as a starter. It is the best record of any NFL quarterback in the Super Bowl Era (since 1966) with at least 40 starts
5. Brady enters 2007 with a 12-2 (.857) playoff record, the second best in NFL history behind Bart Starr (9-1, .900)
4. Brady is the only quarterback in NFL history to start and win three Super Bowls before his 28th birthday, having quarterbacked the Patriots to victories in Super Bowl XXXVI when he was 24 years old, Super Bowl XXXVIII (26) and Super Bowl XXXIX (27).
3. NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr) and most consecutive post season wins (college and professional combined): 12
2. Team went 16-0 for the first time ever.
1. All the reasons I listed will continue to grow, as he is only 30…

We can all debate for various reasons... we can say it is too early to talk about this with him having so much time left in his career... we can argue for others with similar records and titles... but no other player has had as much success not only with winning the big games, but with collecting all the records and leading a winning team.
And all that amounts to is still simply an opinion. Not really fact that he's the best quarterback to ever play in the NFL.
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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The **** people come up with....astounding.
Dude, his organization got caught cheating. Is it so impossible to believe that because he is associated with cheating, and no one knows how long it went on for, it might taint his candidacy for GOAT?

Montana: no cheating.
Bradshaw: Nope, never proven.
Aikman: No.
Favre: Not yet.
Elway: Yes. salary cap?
Marino: Never.

etc. etc. etc.

I would take all these guys over Tom. They got it done mostly before the PI rule change too, that's a huge factor.
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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I'm well aware that this is a team sport...but you're giving the QB all the credit...why shouldn't I give the credit to the guy who scored the most points on the team? So this year it'd be Gostkowski...again not Brady...sounds fair to me. But this IS a team thing...and Brady is on one of the greatest TEAMS of all time, it's not by his doing that he is getting all this praise. Sure he puts in the work that he needs to, but he's not going out and fitting the balls in tight spots or carrying a team on his back...I'm just YEARNING for another QB to be put on THAT team given the same coaching and stuff and you'd see that Brady isn't that special...it's the organization.
Drew Bledsoe was considered a great QB, yet Brady took them to the promiseland. With the same team. Why is that?

I'm yearning for someone else to take over the Colts to prove Peyton Manning is average. How about that? Steve Young took over the 49ers and led them to Super Bowls, so I guess by your thinking that makes Joe Montana average. There are so many ways we can spin your own argument to prove that it's just an dumb premise. Of course the QB gets the glory. That will ALWAYS be the case. And guess what, it's for a reason. Tom Brady put together the season he had be cause he is the best QB in the league playing with a great group of players.

Why wasn't the organization special before Brady? They weren't. Then he came along and everything change. I am sure that is a coincidence. It's a team sport. Absolutely. But why are you willing to give other individuals credit at the same position ahead of Brady when Brady has accomplished more and has better numbers? It makes absolutely no sense.

You are a man on an island. Credibility = gone.
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Top Ten Reasons Tom Brady in the greatest QB of all time…
The counterargument

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
10. He has won three Super Bowls (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX), two Super Bowl MVP awards (XXXVI and XXXVIII)
The Patriots won those games, not Brady, and any player can play one great game, for proof of that, see Dexter Jackson, Super Bowl XXXVII MVP

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
9. Holds the NFL record for most touchdown passes in a single regular season (50)
In 578 attempts, and playing at least 15 total games of time, including the last of the season, which he needed to break the record. Peyton Manning had far fewer attempts when throwing for 49 TD passes, and played for one series in the final game of the season. Had the Colts used the Patriots' tactics that season, Manning could've easily thrown a handful more TDs.

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8. Best Season a QB has ever had in 2007.
Pure opinion, one that is diminished by the fact that Randy Moss had one of the two best seasons ever by a WR, and caught 46% of Brady's TD passes.

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
Highest single-season quarterback rating: 117.2
False, Peyton Manning had a 121.1 QB rating in 2004.

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
Lowest interception total, season (minimum 2 starts): 8;
Again false, even for this season. David Garrard only threw 3.

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
Largest touchdown to interception difference: +42
Which is easy to do when you have a WR that gets away with pushing off on at least 5 plays per game and catches almost 1 1/2 TDs per game.

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
7. Best Playoff QB of all time…
Again, pure opinion. I'm sure many here would take Joe Montana over Brady for postseason play.

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII) Highest completion percentage in a single game, minimum 20 attempts (26 of 28, 92.9%, against Jacksonville in 2007 AFC Divisional round)
Throwing a lot of screens and slants makes a QB great? Okay, that makes sense.

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6. 86-24 (regular season), 99-26 (career) as a starter. It is the best record of any NFL quarterback in the Super Bowl Era (since 1966) with at least 40 starts
This is another team accomplishment.

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5. Brady enters 2007 with a 12-2 (.857) playoff record, the second best in NFL history behind Bart Starr (9-1, .900)
Yet another team accomplishment. Do you think defense, special teams, and the other players on offense play absolutely no role in the success of a team?

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
4. Brady is the only quarterback in NFL history to start and win three Super Bowls before his 28th birthday, having quarterbacked the Patriots to victories in Super Bowl XXXVI when he was 24 years old, Super Bowl XXXVIII (26) and Super Bowl XXXIX (27).
So because his defenses were great at a young age in his career, he's the best ever? That's quite a reach.

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
3. NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr) and most consecutive post season wins (college and professional combined): 12
You list these team accomplishments as though they're all the result of Tom Brady's play, like the other 52 players surrounding him were irrelevant. Why?

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
2. Team went 16-0 for the first time ever.
Again, are the other 52 players on their team irrelevant? Could Tom Brady do this with 52 players from Appalachian State around him? It's not like he has one of the greatest WRs ever to throw to this season, one that has been a large part of the two top scoring offenses of all-time...oh, wait...

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1. All the reasons I listed will continue to grow, as he is only 30…
Things that are in the record books and can't be changed will grow? That will be interesting to witness.

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Originally Posted by JMiah View Post
We can all debate for various reasons... we can say it is too early to talk about this with him having so much time left in his career... we can argue for others with similar records and titles... but no other player has had as much success not only with winning the big games, but with collecting all the records and leading a winning team.
So your argument is that because he's had great defenses and because his team played him in situations where it was clear that he should have been on the bench just so he could break the TD pass record by 1, he's the greatest of all-time? Seems to be an argument lacking in substance to me.
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Haha, please. Peyton Manning played, what, 11 games in a dome that year? No weather, whatsoever. Tom Brady played Baltimore, Miami and the Jets in absolute HORRID weather. Especially the Jets game. If that game was in a dome, Brady would have beaten the record by at least 5 TD's. So really, the whole 15 game argument has no weight with me.

Nor does the "Patriots tactics" argument. It's amazing to me how quickly people forget, or in this case, ignore the facts. One of the biggest complaints people had in 2004 about the Colts was that they were... running up the score. I know this because I was one of those people bitching. I guarantee Brady got pulled from as many games as Manning did.

So quite frankly, I don't want to hear it.

It also amazes me how quickly people go to try and discount everything Tom Brady has accomplished. It's laughable. The same argument can be made about every single player who has ever played the game. "It's a team sport," "he couldn't do it without the other 92424242 guys," "he had better receivers."

Please. Give it a rest. Most of you are still trying to hold on to the "even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl" argument with Brady. He's proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is easily, at worst, tied for the best QB in the game today. There are no questions about it. If you want to say Peyton Manning is better, fine, I'll listen to your argument. Brett Favre may have had a better career, but the current Brett Favre is not better than the current Tom Brady. That's not an insult, it's just reality.

I just chuckle at the fact that it's always something with the Pats that people want to nitpick to not give them their due. I agree, it's way, way, WAY too early to call Tom Brady the best ever. No doubt about it, it's not an argument that I am prepared to make, and I don't know if I ever will be. But calling him.... AVERAGE?!? Come on...
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Haha, please. Peyton Manning played, what, 11 games in a dome that year? No weather, whatsoever. Tom Brady played Baltimore, Miami and the Jets in absolute HORRID weather. Especially the Jets game. If that game was in a dome, Brady would have beaten the record by at least 5 TD's. So really, the whole 15 game argument has no weight with me.

Nor does the "Patriots tactics" argument. It's amazing to me how quickly people forget, or in this case, ignore the facts. One of the biggest complaints people had in 2004 about the Colts was that they were... running up the score. I know this because I was one of those people bitching. I guarantee Brady got pulled from as many games as Manning did.

So quite frankly, I don't want to hear it.

It also amazes me how quickly people go to try and discount everything Tom Brady has accomplished. It's laughable. The same argument can be made about every single player who has ever played the game. "It's a team sport," "he couldn't do it without the other 92424242 guys," "he had better receivers."

Please. Give it a rest. Most of you are still trying to hold on to the "even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl" argument with Brady. He's proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is easily, at worst, tied for the best QB in the game today. There are no questions about it. If you want to say Peyton Manning is better, fine, I'll listen to your argument. Brett Favre may have had a better career, but the current Brett Favre is not better than the current Tom Brady. That's not an insult, it's just reality.

I just chuckle at the fact that it's always something with the Pats that people want to nitpick to not give them their due. I agree, it's way, way, WAY too early to call Tom Brady the best ever. No doubt about it, it's not an argument that I am prepared to make, and I don't know if I ever will be. But calling him.... AVERAGE?!? Come on...
Hey Jay remember that updated ticker you had "Days that have gone by without Randy Moss destroying the Pats"?

Kind of humorous now...
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning single handedly made the Colts who they are. Brady is a product of great coaching, being a great qb, having a great D, great personel around him from the trenches to GM and scouts.

I dont think if you made an all star team of Manning's D would they match up too the Pats D over the last 5-6 years. Trent Dilfer got a ring because why? Brad Johnson has a ring because why? Peyton Manning has a ring because why? his defense stepped up to put him in a better position to wins games rather than having to win the games himself.

Its not discrediting Brady or making Manning sound better. But the fact that Manning MADE that Franchise from scratch and not a by product of great Defenses, superior coaching, superior game planning etc etc makes me think their is no way you can dispute this.

Give Tom Brady the reigns of an offense to call every pay him self and to execute and being the Chess player and pieces rather than being only a piece.


It hs nothing to do with Brady/Manning. Manning not clutch? Give Manning Chicagos D the last 5 years I'd like to argue who would have mroe rings. But thats is immaterial.


Put Brady on the Falcons NOW and Manning on the Falcons now..who would have them an 8-8 team quicker? No matter who coaches and who is put in place I think that an easy answer is there
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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brady is a great qb nonetheless
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Johnny Unitas. I'll still take him over any quarterback in history just for the impact he made on the game.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning single handedly made the Colts who they are. Brady is a product of great coaching, being a great qb, having a great D, great personel around him from the trenches to GM and scouts.

I dont think if you made an all star team of Manning's D would they match up too the Pats D over the last 5-6 years. Trent Dilfer got a ring because why? Brad Johnson has a ring because why? Peyton Manning has a ring because why? his defense stepped up to put him in a better position to wins games rather than having to win the games himself.

Its not discrediting Brady or making Manning sound better. But the fact that Manning MADE that Franchise from scratch and not a by product of great Defenses, superior coaching, superior game planning etc etc makes me think their is no way you can dispute this.

Give Tom Brady the reigns of an offense to call every pay him self and to execute and being the Chess player and pieces rather than being only a piece.


It hs nothing to do with Brady/Manning. Manning not clutch? Give Manning Chicagos D the last 5 years I'd like to argue who would have mroe rings. But thats is immaterial.


Put Brady on the Falcons NOW and Manning on the Falcons now..who would have them an 8-8 team quicker? No matter who coaches and who is put in place I think that an easy answer is there
No one person makes a team single handedly who they are. That's absurd.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Haha, please. Peyton Manning played, what, 11 games in a dome that year? No weather, whatsoever. Tom Brady played Baltimore, Miami and the Jets in absolute HORRID weather. Especially the Jets game. If that game was in a dome, Brady would have beaten the record by at least 5 TD's. So really, the whole 15 game argument has no weight with me.
Brady was pulled from a total of, what, 3 games this season? All in the 4th quarter, and never sooner than 12:00 in, and that was against Miami, where he went back in. All in all, he probably missed less than a half of game time all year.

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Nor does the "Patriots tactics" argument. It's amazing to me how quickly people forget, or in this case, ignore the facts. One of the biggest complaints people had in 2004 about the Colts was that they were... running up the score. I know this because I was one of those people bitching. I guarantee Brady got pulled from as many games as Manning did.
The Patriots redefined running up the score when Brady was throwing a 2 yard out to Welker when the score was 38-0 midway through the 4th quarter. Peyton Manning was out of every one of the 4 blowouts the Colts had at some point, most of the time before the 4th quarter. All in all he probably missed about 8 quarters worth of game time in the 2004 season, yet he still threw 49 TD passes. You have to be kidding if you think the 2004 Colts did things even similarly to the 2007 Patriots, or perhaps a Pats homer that doesn't want to face the truth.

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So quite frankly, I don't want to hear it.
Of course you don't, the truth would bother someone who doesn't want to acknowledge it.

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It also amazes me how quickly people go to try and discount everything Tom Brady has accomplished. It's laughable. The same argument can be made about every single player who has ever played the game. "It's a team sport," "he couldn't do it without the other 92424242 guys," "he had better receivers."
Who's trying to discount anything he's done? He was a part of a team that did great things. That does not make him a great player any more than it makes Dexter Jackson a great player.

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Please. Give it a rest. Most of you are still trying to hold on to the "even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl" argument with Brady. He's proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is easily, at worst, tied for the best QB in the game today. There are no questions about it. If you want to say Peyton Manning is better, fine, I'll listen to your argument. Brett Favre may have had a better career, but the current Brett Favre is not better than the current Tom Brady. That's not an insult, it's just reality.
Seems to me you have an entirely different argument than the poster I was addressing, so why are you responding to me? This argument is FAR less objectionable than the one to which I replied.

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I just chuckle at the fact that it's always something with the Pats that people want to nitpick to not give them their due. I agree, it's way, way, WAY too early to call Tom Brady the best ever. No doubt about it, it's not an argument that I am prepared to make, and I don't know if I ever will be. But calling him.... AVERAGE?!? Come on...
Wow, way to misread what I said. If you notice, I made it very clear from the beginning that my post was the counterargument to the original post. It seems you're actually in agreement with me, so why are you arguing?
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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No one person makes a team single handedly who they are. That's absurd.
Ok well he is the reason why they are who they are more than any other component. Not d, not coaching, not Gm, not receviers
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Ok well he is the reason why they are who they are more than any other component. Not d, not coaching, not Gm, not receviers
Perhaps. He's probably the best player at this position on his team. But without the good offensive linemen, good wide receivers, and good running game that he's had almost every season of his career (the running game that is), he probably wouldn't be as special as he is now. If anyone deserves the highest honor, it's Bill Polian, their team president. He's the one that "built" that team, so to speak. And he's been there since it all began with Manning. His first year, was Manning's first year.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Ok well he is the reason why they are who they are more than any other component. Not d, not coaching, not Gm, not receviers
I strongly disagree with that statement. Their defense has made them what they are more than anything. In the 3 years the Patriots won the Super Bowl, the Patriots were 6th in scoring defense at worst, and 1st and 2nd in the other years. It's easier to win games when your defense doesn't give up many points. It gives the offense more times to fail while still giving the team a chance to win.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I strongly disagree with that statement. Their defense has made them what they are more than anything. In the 3 years the Patriots won the Super Bowl, the Patriots were 6th in scoring defense at worst, and 1st and 2nd in the other years. It's easier to win games when your defense doesn't give up many points. It gives the offense more times to fail while still giving the team a chance to win.
I believe he was talking about Peyton Manning, not Tom Brady.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Until Tom Brady can put up great numbers for more than one season, it's still debatable whether he is the best QB in the present-day NFL.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Drew Bledsoe was considered a great QB, yet Brady took them to the promiseland. With the same team. Why is that?

I'm yearning for someone else to take over the Colts to prove Peyton Manning is average. How about that? Steve Young took over the 49ers and led them to Super Bowls, so I guess by your thinking that makes Joe Montana average. There are so many ways we can spin your own argument to prove that it's just an dumb premise. Of course the QB gets the glory. That will ALWAYS be the case. And guess what, it's for a reason. Tom Brady put together the season he had be cause he is the best QB in the league playing with a great group of players.

Why wasn't the organization special before Brady? They weren't. Then he came along and everything change. I am sure that is a coincidence. It's a team sport. Absolutely. But why are you willing to give other individuals credit at the same position ahead of Brady when Brady has accomplished more and has better numbers? It makes absolutely no sense.

You are a man on an island. Credibility = gone.
Do you not remember what was going on in the Super Bowl in 2001? They were ALL calling to pull Brady and put Bledsoe back in cause he was choking on his own...well...whatever. He wasn't leading them to touchdown drives...he was leading them to field goals...he's not the guy who's special it's the organization. Bledsoe was considered great by who? He was good...and really looked like he could become something special, but he didn't. But he DID however have a lot of success with that team.

I'll give Favre credit he's done it BETTER and LONGER than Brady has...he's the #1 in everything that's important except Super Bowl wins...what's going to happen if Favre knocks Brady off in the Super Bowl? You going to blame it on someone else? No...cause Brady has the superior talent around him...the better coach...the experienced squad around him...

My 'island' seems like a tropical paradise because where I'm standing I'm not looking at this through rose colored glasses...the fact that passing numbers have gotten inflated more recently ESPECIALLY since CBs can't really play defense anymore (which you NEVER mentioned or even thought about) I'm not impressed...look at those stats...get him in the middle range out routes and the tougher passes and his completion percentage is pathetic. Sure he can throw it to the backs out of the backfield and Welker on screens and 5 yard hitches...

He's an average NFL Caliber QB (which there aren't many of them out there right now) with an ELITE squad around him. Favre went through the good squads and the bad...Elway the same...Marino...same...

I'm not going to waste any more time debating you. But look at what's going on instead of just hugging on Brady's nuts because it's what the media says to do.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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False, Peyton Manning had a 121.1 QB rating in 2004.
I always get a kick when I remember that Brady stat-hounded his way in 16 full games to breaking Manning's record with 50 touchdowns but still fell short of this one.

And of course, I don't think we'll ever see the feat of three 1,000-yard/10 touchdown-receivers in one season repeated again.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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akili smith hasnt been name dropped yet? wtf

G:22
Comp: 215 of 461 Pct: 46.6
Yards: 2212
TD: 5
INT: 13

numbers dont lie folks
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