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Old 02-04-2008, 04:30 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by GB12 View Post
Don't have a very good offense at all?
Correct.

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We have a top 5 QB.
No you don't.

Quote:
2 WRs who could be #1s (Driver and Jennings).
I consider both very good #2s.

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3 WRs who could be #3s (Jones, Martin, Robinson).
Umm...neat?

[quote]A first year running back who was second in the league only to LT since he took over as the primary back./quote]
I think Packers fans are massively overrating Grant. He had a nice run. Lots of players that amount to nothing career-wise do. I expect a large drop off.

Quote:
An emerging TE.
Donald Lee had a nice season, but I think a lot of that was due to smart scheme. I think it's way too premature to consider him "emerging".

Quote:
Pro Bowl calibur tackles and a solid center on our line.
To be "Pro Bowl calibur" don't you have to...I dunno...make some Pro Bowls? Clifton/Tauscher have been in the league a collective 13 years and have 1 pro-bowl combined, which was this year, that I've already stated I think is a bit of an abberation.

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The only thing I could see a problem with is the guards.
Yes. I would consider your interior line something of a big question mark still.


Quote:
Ryan Grant you can say he's still unproven, but then why is Adrian Peterson being considered as the greatest RB of all time (even for the sane people not going that far have him as a top 5 current back)? In 12 games Grant has 1159 yards(97 ypg) and 11 TDs(.92 TDpg). In 14 games Peterson has 1341 yards(96 ypg) and 12 TDs(.86 TDpg). That's a bit of a double standard.
I would not say that. I would say, however, that Peterson has elite skills across the board. Grant does not. Peterson is faster, more powerful, more elusive, better out of the backfield. Essentially he is better at every single thing that a runningback is required to do. To even compare the two belies the homerism of your whole post.
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Didnt AP face more 8 man fronts than Grant just because...u know Favre > Tavaris?
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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The Packers need another RB. Grant's success was admirable but he overachieved, and could use some help. Getting a premiere guy would definately help them long term.

And add some wrinkles to that defensive playbook. They are awfully vanilla on defense. Great talent, but too vanilla.
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:50 PM    (permalink
GB12
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
No you don't.
Yes we do. Even if you want to take a Packer hater approach there's no way you can say Favre's not at least in the top ten.


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I consider both very good #2s.
Well you must have some high standards. Either could be the #1 on the Packers, Vikings, Bears, Bucs, Falcons, Eagles, Redskins, Seahawks, 49ers, Ravens, Jets, Dolphins, Jags, Titans, Chiefs, Chargers, and Raiders.

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Umm...neat?
Very

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Donald Lee had a nice season, but I think a lot of that was due to smart scheme. I think it's way too premature to consider him "emerging".
If he fits the scheme than that's good enough for me. He produced so I don't see what the problem is. He was in the top ten in yards and TDs by a TE in the NFL.

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To be "Pro Bowl calibur" don't you have to...I dunno...make some Pro Bowls? Clifton/Tauscher have been in the league a collective 13 years and have 1 pro-bowl combined, which was this year, that I've already stated I think is a bit of an abberation.
No. There's a difference between "Pro Bowl tackles" and "Pro Bowl calibur tackles". Clifton and Tauscher could have been probowlers any of the past 5 years. As far as right tackles go there aren't that many I'd take over Taucher.


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Yes. I would consider your interior line something of a big question mark still.
Well I wouldn't say the interior as it's more of just the guards. Scott Wells isn't great, but he's solid and will be a part of our line for years to come.


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I would not say that. I would say, however, that Peterson has elite skills across the board. Grant does not. Peterson is faster, more powerful, more elusive, better out of the backfield. Essentially he is better at every single thing that a runningback is required to do. To even compare the two belies the homerism of your whole post
I'm not comparing the two but rather making a point. I don't think there's any question that Peterson is better. I find it amazing how people will call Peterson better than Barry Sanders, but Grant's not even proven.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Thanks everyone for your vote of confidence with the Giants next year. I mean, we only won a Super Bowl or something like that. =D
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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All of these are serious...........

Super Bowl 43: Giants over Colts, oh thats right a Manning bowl

MVP: Eli Manning

Coach of the Year: Dick Juron, not saying they'll win the AFC East, but make the playoffs.

Disappointment/Suprise: Chargers/Bills

That is all 4 now.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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the bengals will have a winning season.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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I never thought I would say this because BF is usually one of the most intelligent and least objective posters on the board, but you sound like one of the rambling homers right now dude. Every post I have seen of yours in this thread comes off as misinformed with the exception of one. This isn't my Packers bias speaking here either. One second you say the Packers have a terrible offensive scheme , the next a good one? Uh, Flip flopper?
The Packers young players didn't and won't improve? Come on man, seriously? 8-8 to 13-3 with one real free agent( who didn't do ****) and a couple of young addictions.
The Packers coaching is suspect?And the offense? Runner up coach of the year and a top five offense. The only coaching you can really question is Bob Sanders, who apparently didn't learn how to Blitz throughout his entire football coaching career.
You didn't make any bad predictions on the Packers? How about saying Greg would not be anything special? or that the Bears receivers were far better than the Packers because the bears, quote " Have more than one"? How about saying the Bears would easily win the division? How about Favre being washed up?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with the Bears because I was wrong with them not winning the Norris either, but I can admit my fault as well. As far as I've seen none of your predictions this year have come to fruition with the Packers.

I'll give you credit on one prediction of yours i seem to remember however. I do remember when you said " Favre and his new nucleus of young players would surprise everyone". Too bad you were a year premature on that one, as you said it in 2006...
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I never thought I would say this because BF is usually one of the most intelligent and least objective posters on the board, but you sound like one of the rambling homers right now dude. Every post I have seen of yours in this thread comes off as misinformed with the exception of one. This isn't my Packers bias speaking here either. One second you say the Packers have a terrible offensive scheme , the next a good one? Uh, Flip flopper?
I said the way they use Donald Lee is good, not the overall offensive scheme.


Quote:
The Packers young players didn't and won't improve? Come on man, seriously? 8-8 to 13-3 with one real free agent( who didn't do ****) and a couple of young addictions.
Simply being older doesn't mean being better. I think that last season was an abberation, I don't know how many times I have to say that.

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The Packers coaching is suspect?And the offense? Runner up coach of the year and a top five offense.
Dick Jauron won coach of the year in 2001. Don't say my response lacks intelligence and then bring that ********.

Quote:
You didn't make any bad predictions on the Packers? How about saying Greg would not be anything special? or that the Bears receivers were far better than the Packers because the bears, quote " Have more than one"? How about saying the Bears would easily win the division? How about Favre being washed up?
How about learning to read? I said for the two years prior to last I was dead on. While everyone else in 2006 was telling me that the Bears were going to "flop like in 2001" I said that Favre would continue to sling the ball around and act like a moron and that we would breeze to the division title, which happened. I was wrong last year. I'll take a 2/1 ratio if that's my example of not knowing what I'm talking about.


The funny thing is that I still think the Packers will win 9-10 games, but most of you are so much off in dream land that anything less than the Superbowl seems like I'm smoking crack. Come back down to earth, your team isn't as good as you think it is. And no, it's impossible for you to not be a homer. There are only 2-3 Packers fans that I can think of that are able to do that, though you are better than most.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I said the way they use Donald Lee is good, not the overall offensive scheme.
touche, I can see what you were getting at now, but it was a bit contradictory while reading it at first. I'm asking this out of pure curiosity of your opinion. If it's so simple, why was it successful?



Quote:
Simply being older doesn't mean being better. I think that last season was an abberation, I don't know how many times I have to say that.
When did I directly imply that being older was a direct correlation to being better?
The overall growth and experience of the Packers can be noticed from many more sources than just the Players. It's easy to look at TT and MM and see a great example of this, both have continued to improve since their first year on the job. Also, I feel its relatively obvious to see the Players improvement from the first half of the 2006 season to now.


Quote:
Dick Jauron won coach of the year in 2001. Don't say my response lacks intelligence and then bring that ********.
Take a look at MMs record from the second half to the NFC championship, I really don't think he's too much of a fluke. You can call me an idiot, but I think I'll be the one proven right with time here.


Quote:
How about learning to read? I said for the two years prior to last I was dead on. While everyone else in 2006 was telling me that the Bears were going to "flop like in 2001" I said that Favre would continue to sling the ball around and act like a moron and that we would breeze to the division title, which happened.
Yeah, and you said it again this year, called anyone contradicting you an idiot.
By the way did you read the rest of it? I think the record prediction was the part I didn't critic you for because I was wrong as well, with the same predictions for the most part last year.Your other predictions/evaluations you presented before the season were the ones that gave me a chuckle.

Quote:
The funny thing is that I still think the Packers will win 9-10 games, but most of you are so much off in dream land that anything less than the Superbowl seems like I'm smoking crack.
SO..... Were in the same place as Bears fans were last off season? Damn, we wetarded. I never went to say that the Packers were Super bowl favs next year. I implied that some of your evaluations sounded about as realistic as a volkish writer getting published by a Jewish firm.

Quote:
And no, it's impossible for you to not be a homer. There are only 2-3 Packers fans that I can think of that are able to do that, though you are better than most.
That dosen't make too much sense, but I think you may be calling me a homer? In that case, I'll openly admit I am a giant homer, and I'd have it no other way. Quite frankly, I find the whole " enlightened football fan" to be a damn joke. The only reason I commented is because you find it so important. Sure, it's great to accurately analyze the sport and have a good knowledge on the subject, but It's football, not geopolitics, have a good time with it. Also, I know you like to think it's just Packers fans who are Homers, but basically on this site is ******* homerlishious for their team, Bear fans included. You just hate the Packers more, thus you notice it.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Why not just rename the thread: "Packers Fans vs. BF51"?
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Why not just rename the thread: "Packers Fans vs. BF51"?
Nawh, I've said about all I can say. I said from the beginning that it would be a pointless argument.

Anyway, he's my super early prediction:

Vikings 11-5
Packers 10-6
Bears 7-9
Lions 6-10
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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Nawh, I've said about all I can say. I said from the beginning that it would be a pointless argument.

Anyway, he's my super early prediction:

Vikings 11-5
Packers 10-6
Bears 7-9
Lions 6-10
You mean answered what you felt you could successfully argue about and dodged around the rest?
Anyways, yeah it is weak to turn this into a Bear/Packer thread.



A team with no Pass rush, that passing game, and Tjack as their QB go 11-5? They better have a huge off season for that to happen.

Either way, if your prediction, or somthing close to it happened,the Norris will be likely one of the best divisions (if not the best) in football. Something I have been saying for a couple seasons is going to more than likely happen next year.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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bf51's 10-6 prediction for the Packers isn't outrageous in the least, they could have very easily been 10-6 this year. They were rather fortunate in their wins against the Eagles, the Redskins, and the Broncos. Let's be honest here.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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I have a strong feeling the first Sunday Night Football game of the year will be Colts @ Packers.
I hope so. The earlier that game is out of the way, the better.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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Brian Westbrook for MVP!
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:39 AM    (permalink
Forenci
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Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
I break Mike Vick out of prison and he leads us to a Superbowl victory.
Hmm. Interesting. I see a TV series out of this.

Prison Break: The Michael Vick Chronicles anyone?

Yes, I think so.

Far too early to tell, but it should be interested to see what happens with that Thursday night games, if we made an agreement with the NFL not to play any until the new stadium comes up.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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bf51's 10-6 prediction for the Packers isn't outrageous in the least, they could have very easily been 10-6 this year. They fluked wins against the Eagles and the Redskins at home, and Denver should have beat them in regulation on Monday night. Let's be honest here.
Who the hell said that 10-6 is "outrageous"?

The Redskins was not a fluke by the way. In fact it should have been a 10 point victory as the league admitted that the refs got the call wrong for not calling the force out on Franks' TD. What basis are you going off of when you say that Denver should have won in regulation? It took Denver a last second FG to even get it to overtime. The Eagles I'll give you. We shouldn't have won that game and wouldn't have had the Eagles had a half decent punt returner.
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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You mean answered what you felt you could successfully argue about and dodged around the rest?
Anyways, yeah it is weak to turn this into a Bear/Packer thread.
I answered every "point" you made. The last paragraph I cut out because it was anecdotal dribble.

You cut out and parsed my words (like the part where I even said 2 out of 3 isn't bad, and better than any Packers fan that has been here that long). I adressed every point you raised. And like I said, I think last year was an aberration. I think Favre is much closer to the QB we saw in '05 and '06 (and is what, 39 now?). I think a lot of players played over their heads. The Packers avoided injuries in a way that I doubt they will be able to replicate. They caught a lot of breaks at key moments in games. And they hit momentum early and never looked back. That's to their credit. Great season. I really doubt they'll be able to do it again. I think 10 wins is reasonable. I think 9 is more realistic than 11. Those are my opinions/arguments. I avoided nothing that you said.
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Super Bowl Prediction? Jacksonville vs Dallas
MVP Prediction? If the pats keep Moss, then Brady if not Adrian Peterson
#1 Pick in 2009 NFL Draft? Dunno about this one, I'll pray its atlanta though
Disappointments/Surprises? Disappointment: Patrick Kerney, Surprise: Jake Delhomme
Things you are looking forward too? Peppers pulling his finger out and the Panthers making the playoffs again
Players to Retire? Brett Favre after next season
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:28 AM    (permalink
Geo
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Who the hell said that 10-6 is "outrageous"?

The Redskins was not a fluke by the way. In fact it should have been a 10 point victory as the league admitted that the refs got the call wrong for not calling the force out on Franks' TD. What basis are you going off of when you say that Denver should have won in regulation? It took Denver a last second FG to even get it to overtime. The Eagles I'll give you. We shouldn't have won that game and wouldn't have had the Eagles had a half decent punt returner.
I actually edited my post right after, to word it better (than fluking wins).

As for the Denver game: the Broncos should have gone for the win, right there near the goal, instead of tying it up imo.
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:31 AM    (permalink
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Also, I probably jumped the gun on thinking Colts @ Packers for the first SNF.

Fox will likely do everything in its power to keep that game for itself (in November), when the league arranges the schedule for the season with the networks.

But I think you can all but book November 3rd of Week 9 for Patriots @ Colts on Monday Night Football.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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I guarantee the Rams will have no more than 3 wins next year.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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I guarantee the Rams will have no more than 3 wins next year.
I guarantee they will have at least 6 wins!
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:35 AM    (permalink
yodabear
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My NFC West Standings for next season:

Seattle 8-8
Arizona 8-8
San Francisco 6-10
St. Louis 0-16

IT IS HAPPENING!
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