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Old 02-06-2008, 07:18 PM    (permalink
Shiver
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Originally Posted by PalmerToCJ View Post
Which season is Carson's one good one?

The one with 32 TD's 12 INT's and 3800 yards... or
The one with 28 TD's 13 INT's and 4000 yards?

He wasn't very good this year, we all know that but it's not his fault our defense is trash. He's about the only one on this team worth defending.
That season he was as good as any other QB was, and that led to him being anointed as an elite QB. His numbers in '06 were good, but Matt Hasselbeck has put up those numbers and I don't see anyone calling him elite and on par with Manning and Brady.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Yeah. Portis isnt overrated.

And Terrence Newman didnt give up just 2 TDs 2 years ago. I remember him giving up a TD to Lelie and to Mike Williams. I remember there were others as well. Just arent coming to my head.

Overrated:

Alge Crumpler (He is getting the respect he deserves now, but even when he was putting up good numbers, he really was not good). He drops nearly everything thrown at him.

Patrick Willis (a bit). He is good. We know that. He is not the best MLB in the NFL or NFC. He is too one dimensional right now. Give him a year or two.

Cant think of any other guys right now. Ill add them to the list as they come to me.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I think everyone now realizes that Roy Williams is awful, so I wouldn't call him overrated anymore.

Reggie Bush, honestly, Im starting to think he's become underrated. Its amazing how the bandwagon turns, theres a lot of people who are labeling him a bust already now. Im not ready to say that about him. I have a feeling he has a bounceback year after getting a dose of reality this year.
Not everyone realizes that Roy Williams is awful, unless you are referring to the people who watch football often, not just follow football. Pro Bowls speak to this, as do the number of people who talk about him and his big hits. He is 'overrated' regardless of how many people on this site realize that he sux.

Bush is not underrated, no way, no how. Similar to Roy Williams above, although Bush is a regular hype machine. Every game the Saints play, its Reggie this, Reggie that (in marketing the game to the public). To much hype and not enough production. Bust? Who knows. I sure know that him ever being that true #1 that you can rely on is a long shot. You don't draft a guy #2 or ever really pay a guy big bucks that he will probably get if he is always going to be in a split back situation.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Shaun Alexander
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Not everyone realizes that Roy Williams is awful, unless you are referring to the people who watch football often, not just follow football. Pro Bowls speak to this, as do the number of people who talk about him and his big hits. He is 'overrated' regardless of how many people on this site realize that he sux.

Bush is not underrated, no way, no how. Similar to Roy Williams above, although Bush is a regular hype machine. Every game the Saints play, its Reggie this, Reggie that (in marketing the game to the public). To much hype and not enough production. Bust? Who knows. I sure know that him ever being that true #1 that you can rely on is a long shot. You don't draft a guy #2 or ever really pay a guy big bucks that he will probably get if he is always going to be in a split back situation.
im referring to overrated on this board. if we discuss who's overrated in general, that would take too long.

Theres still hope for Bush. He's gotta work that lower body and accept the fact that he can't dance in the NFL. He won't live up to the hype though.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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That season he was as good as any other QB was, and that led to him being anointed as an elite QB. His numbers in '06 were good, but Matt Hasselbeck has put up those numbers and I don't see anyone calling him elite and on par with Manning and Brady.
I think anyone who has called him on par with Brady/Manning is a fool, I still feel Carson is the best QB in that second tier of QB's... Although after this year it's debatable.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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As of right now it has to be Al Harris, I don't understand how he makes it to the Pro Bowl after having his worst season of his career.

Also I feel Asante Samuel is overrated as well, he doesn't play at the line with the wide outs, instead he plays 10 yards back and gets those lucky game ending INTs.

edit: I forgot to add this, and Smauel always covers the wide outs who he faces on the left side, he never always on the number one guy.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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Asante Samuel, I have been saying this for years, he never plays at the line with receivers, he always 10 yards in front of them and gets lucky with his INTs.
almost always gets help up top as well. the Pats never have their top CB in man with the other team's best WR. He's almost always getting help up top, or he's playing zone.

or he's on an island against the opponents #2 WR, but never on an island with a #1.

he's a system CB, at least thats all he's proven thus far. he wouldn't be a "shutdown" CB in any scheme. however, its also hard to write him off completely bc he didnt get that chance to prove himself yet. but as of now, very overrated.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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im referring to overrated on this board. if we discuss who's overrated in general, that would take too long.

Theres still hope for Bush. He's gotta work that lower body and accept the fact that he can't dance in the NFL. He won't live up to the hype though.
hmm, okay. Well, in general, this board is more intellegent than the normal fan, so that's more difficult to assess. A single individual could make you believe that a player is overrated, so i just go by what i generally hear.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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If were talking about overrated as in specifically on this forum: Terrence Newman and Osi Umenyiora. Both are very good, but they are considered elite on this forum.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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If were talking about overrated as in specifically on this forum: Terrence Newman and Osi Umenyiora. Both are very good, but they are considered elite on this forum.
Personally, I think Newman is top 3 in the league. I see him almost every week, he's as consistent and dominant as anyone in the leauge.

Osi, yeah he's starting to become overrated depending on the context of how he's spoken of, but I can't think of any LE in the league id rather have other than Mario Williams. Maybe Jared Allen, but he can't twist and stunt like Osi, is not as good against the run, and can't ZB as well, so yeah pretty much only Mario is ahead of him at LE in my eyes. Tuck is our best defender, but we forget how much Osi opens Tuck up. You gotta watch film of our various stunts, zone blitzes, and bullrushes to see how good Osi really is. You'd change your mind on him if you did.

For the record, my favorite DE in the league other than Tuck and Mario Williams is Aaron Kampman.

I think everyone here just soured on Osi bc we kept talking about him.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Patrick Willis (a bit). He is good. We know that. He is not the best MLB in the NFL or NFC. He is too one dimensional right now. Give him a year or two.
What is your basis for this conclusion?
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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What is your basis for this conclusion?
Watching him play and looking at his stats.

I am not saying he sucks and everyone overrates him. I am just saying that people who think he is the top MLB in the NFC are wrong, but not for long. He finally started coming on at the end of the year as a run stuffer and started making tackles near the LOS, which was great. What I would like to see more out of him is better coverage, which he has already shown flashes of. I would give him a year or two before he makes a run at the best MLB in NFC/NFL title. Until then, I think guys like Tatupu, Barnett are better than him.

I am not saying he sucks, by any means. I think he is a stud, and is #3 on my jerseys to get list. I just think people get carried away looking at his tackle numbers.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Ive noticed a few names get thrown around as overrated, and those guys are actually good players, maybe some people are tired of hearing their names around the boards or not


But Tony Romo is not overrated, he gets praised for his good and completely blasted for his negatives, no one was singing his praises after the playoffs, so he's right where he should be for a guy who started less then 2 seasons, I mean lets realistically think about how much better he would have to play to NOT be considered overrated, does he need 40 tds and a super bowl ring in 2 years?



Al Harris comes to mind first as overrated, he is physical and a good defender, but no where near top tier level, he needed to show me he could stop burress or TO at least a few times and it rarely happened


For my team ill say Flozell Adams...played great this year but got owned too many times in crunch time, he was beat in the Giants game by one defender lightning quick, and looked like he was stepping in mud too many times...age is catching up to him also
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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I think everyone here just soured on Osi bc we kept talking about him.
well, he is better and more productive than julius peppers.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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This one's for KILLERSANTA -

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Old 02-06-2008, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Ah, an off-season forum staple..

Logan Mankins - Anyone watch the Super Bowl?
I think the craptastic performance of the Patriots offense in the Super Bowl in relation to the poor play of Mankins shows how imporant he's been for the Pats this season.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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bigbluedefense,

you think Mangold is overrated? Just because he was on a bad line means he's overrated. I can't remember any games where I thought he got burned. Yes he'll mess up every now and then but he's a 2nd year starting center, which is not common. I would not say overrated...
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Good topic.

My opinions...

-CB is extremely difficult to grade/rate. It's the hardest position to be consistently successful playing in the NFL because of the rules, evolving offenses/athletes, and nature of the position.

NOT overrated (why they are even mentioned is beyond me): Clinton Portis, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo, Wes Welker, Bob Sanders.

BAD, but I don't think anyone really thinks they are good, so they don't really fit in as overrated: Shaun Alexander, Roy Williams, Darrell Jackson.

Overrated: Brett Favre, DeAngelo Hall, Jason Peters, Vernon Davis, Reggie Bush, Troy Polamalu, Alex Barron, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Jonathan Vilma, Adam Vinatieri.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:04 PM    (permalink
Average OT LB
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The Chargers are a super talented team, but a few players skate by without getting picked on because they get generalized as a team...

Lo Neal, Jamal Williams, Luis Castillo are bigger name players that are good.. Lo neal is done, jamal is sure as hell not the best DT anymore, and Luis proved himself to be just a luxury and nothing vital..

Florence is maybe the worst player in the league... Thinking any more of him is overrating him..

AS for wes welker, i agree that if he were a 1st or 2nd wr going up against legitimate cbs and not olbs that he would not have anywhere near the success he had this year. With that said, there is no doubt he is a fabulous slot wr and was the player the pats leaned on when the going got tough... Lets just not get carried away..
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:07 PM    (permalink
Average OT LB
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The Chargers are a super talented team, but a few players skate by without getting picked on because they get generalized as a team...

Lo Neal, Jamal Williams, Luis Castillo are bigger name players that are good.. Lo neal is done, jamal is sure as hell not the best DT anymore, and Luis proved himself to be just a luxury and nothing vital..

Florence is maybe the worst player in the league... Thinking any more of him is overrating him..

AS for wes welker, i agree that if he were a 1st or 2nd wr going up against legitimate cbs and not olbs that he would not have anywhere near the success he had this year. With that said, there is no doubt he is a fabulous slot wr and was the player the pats leaned on when the going got tough... Lets just not get carried away..
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Too me, Shawne Merriman is overrated a bit. He's no lights out. If you wannabe the best, perform in the playoffs. And last year and this year in the playoffs. Tony Ugh and Nick Kaczur, too me, pretty much shut him down. And Laurence Maroney.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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I don't get why everyone thinks Troy P. and Willie Parker are overrated.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Parker is not overrated at all. Over 1300 yards the past 2 years and it's not like anyone makes him out to be in the same group with LT.
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
The most recent example of the fluidity of the consensus opinion:
  • Prior to the season - "Manning is better than Tom Brady."
  • Midway through the season - "Brady is better than Manning."
  • Prior to the SB - "Brady is the greatest of all time!"
  • Now - "He is overrated."
I thought he was overrated a bit this season even when he was playing well.
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