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Old 02-07-2008, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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Default Toronto Bills?

Per PFT.

Bills owner Ralph Wilson thinks that Toronto is ready for an NFL team. And he thinks that Buffalo might be getting ready to lose one.

"It reminds me of my trip to Dallas a few months ago," Wilson said of the city where the Bills will play eight games over the next five years. "They're building in Dallas, Texas, everywhere, cranes, brand-new structures. And I see the same thing here in Toronto."

"It's no secret, Buffalo is diminishing in size," Wilson added.

But the 89-year-old owner of the Bills wouldn't comment on what might happen in the future. His family is expected to sell the team after he passes, and it could be that interests in Toronto purchase the franchise and move it there permanently.


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Old 02-07-2008, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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I'd say it's just a matter of time until there is a NFL franchise in Toronto. Either the NFL gives the city an extension team or the Bills will relocate.

I already posted this basically the same thing btw ;)
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...5&postcount=31
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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Do you think its a good move?
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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As someone who attended an NFL recruiting seminar last semester (They were looking mostly for finance majors though, sucks for me. At least I got two free NFL hats), this isn't news.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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Living in Toronto it is no secret we are ready and capable of holding a NFL franchise permanently. It is currently the fifth largest city in North America. This "trial-basis" with the Bills will only further solidify this belief amongst NFL insiders.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Living in Toronto it is no secret we are ready and capable of holding a NFL franchise permanently. It is currently the fifth largest city in North America. This "trial-basis" with the Bills will only further solidify this belief amongst NFL insiders.
I know Toronto is capable of holding a NFL franchise permanently. But are the people ready to support.( since you live there you would know)
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Being the fifth largest city in North America doesn't help if the people isn't interested in supporting the team. Living in Norway I don't know much about the interest for the NFL in Toronto, so what's your take on that 619?

The the support is good enough, I would think that financially it would be a good move by the Bills to relocate across the border.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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Im waiting on 619 to respond........
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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The only thing that hinder the NFL in Toronto is the CFL. As everybody should know by now, it would put an end to the CFL. Of course the NFL team would be supported, I'm in Québec and I would make the trip at least once a year. But the attendence for the Argos and Tiger-cats would drop drastically, both team will have to fold, and kiss a TV contract goodbye if there is no team in southern ontario.

But there is no doubt in my mind that that Canada would embrace the Toronto franchise as their team and support it. The Raptors gets good support and Football is a lot bigger up here than basketball
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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The only thing that hinder the NFL in Toronto is the CFL. As everybody should know by now, it would put an end to the CFL. Of course the NFL team would be supported, I'm in Québec and I would make the trip at least once a year. But the attendence for the Argos and Tiger-cats would drop drastically, both team will have to fold, and kiss a TV contract goodbye if there is no team in southern ontario.

But there is no doubt in my mind that that Canada would embrace the Toronto franchise as their team and support it. The Raptors gets good support and Football is a lot bigger up here than basketball
If the Arena league can survive in the US with 32 NFL frachises, why couldn't the CFL survive in Canada with 1?
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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is the AFL a real healthy league? I don't know it much, but isn't there about 2 relocation each year? There is not many market in Canada to support a team, Québec, Halifax comes to mind... but not many other, Ottawa can't keep their own...
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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It will hurt the CFL more that its already hurting
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Downfall of the NFL if there is ever a team outside of the USA.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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is the AFL a real healthy league? I don't know it much, but isn't there about 2 relocation each year? There is not many market in Canada to support a team, Québec, Halifax comes to mind... but not many other, Ottawa can't keep their own...
I don't follow the arena league closely enough to answer any of those questions, but I have seen games within the last full year on both ESPN and NBC, so I assumed they were doing okay for themselves.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Downfall of the NFL if there is ever a team outside of the USA.
You think? I'd love to know why.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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You think? I'd love to know why.

Well obviously you're not gonna agree with it but here is why.....

Because then where does it end? A UK team? A South American team? Its not necessary the NFL is making enough money being in USA and it should stay in the USA. Plus Im always gonna be against Canada getting a team because of them stealing our team away after we won the Grey Cup. Baltimore had a CFL team and we won the championship and then they did away with all USA teams so they should never get an NFL franchise.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I have to say that don't either would like the NFL to expand outside of the US. The ideal situation would be for more countries to have their own leagues and over time improving the talent level (i.e. the CFL getting better). That way, in the future there could maybe be a tournament with the best teams from all the leagues or something like that. Sort of like it's with soccer right now.

Obviously this is much easier said than done because for the talent level to improve there would have to be a higher interest throughout the population of other countries. This is not easy to do, but I think that NFL games being played abroad is a good way to start.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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I would hate to see any US city lose their team even to another US city. To me its all about the Fans. Sometimes people get to carried away with the chance to make more money.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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They need to make up their mind stay or go...but this some games here some there crap is stupid.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Would there also be a problem with crossing the borders? I mean if a player on the away team had a criminal record or something like that would there be a problem with him getting in or out of Canada? I have no idea what the border crossing is like between America and Canada, just wondered if that could have an impact on it...
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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i have stated this before, and i will again. as for what 619 said, we live right down the road from each other, but have completely opposite views. i think toronto is capabale of holding an nfl team, but they arent ready. i dont think the cfl will stop anything, but i do think that it is a bit of picture as to what football looks like in toronto. toronto is filled, and i mean filled with maple leafs fans. i have said before, when the raptors were garbage, the fans werent watching. the jays draw flies, whether they are good or bad. the argos couldnt draw when flutie was here and was lights out. anyone catch my drift? you could put osama bin laden and 4 other terrorists int he blue and white and they would sell out the ACC for 41 straight games. that is how crazy people are for the nhl in toronto.

just to give everyone else another take on this move, the hamilton tiger-cats have pulled out from being a partern with bringing these games to toronto. their owner bob young, said that he sees no benefit to the area or to the cfl or nfl in doing this.

fifth largest city in north america doesnt mean anything. buffalo has been dperessing forever now and still sells out. population size of the city means absolutley squat. ive alread used examples like green bay, jacksonville and buffalo. teams will always draw from the outside areas.

as for ticket prices. yes buffalo bills tickets are the cheapest in the league. if they come to toronto, oh boy, look for top3 ticket prices in the league. no kidding either. in toronto, people will pay for tickets. but only on two occasions. 1. if you are the toronto maple leafs and 2. if the team is winning. as optimistic as you want to be, can anyone really see this team competing with the patriots for the division anytime soon? i cant. and i can tell you that this will be a novelty in toronto for a few years to begin with, but once people get tired of shelling out several hundred dollars every sunday for a below average football, then the team will be like the argos. no kidding either.

roger godell doesnt know what hes getting into. he doesnt understand the market in toronto. yes there is money, but is there money that will be spent on a mediocre afc east team?

on another note, one thing i think that ralph is doing wrong is holding on toe team. im all for him keeping the team, because he is the original owner, but i feel that he is helping the team leve buffalo. if ralph really wanted to keep it in buffalo, he could sell the team to a group like jim kelly's group, who apparently have the money to keep the team alive and build a new stadium. we all know that when ralph dies the team will be basically put up for auction and the highest bidder will win. i can guarantee that whoever it is, wont be from WNY or the GTA. im thinking LA. i think ralph can do something to keep the team in buffalo, and selling the team while he still can would do it.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Good info nice post +rep..
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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just some comments in comparison to a few posts above...


Billingsly26 posted some good stuff, but i completely disagree. I live in Toronto as well, and I think with proper marketing and a solid business plan, then the team will flourish in Toronto.

Yes, it is a hockey town. The Maple leafs are huge here, whether they are winning or not. But that doesnt mean that an NFL franchise wouldnt succeed. They are two totally differant sports, with differant fanbases. Whether we want to admit it or not, the parts are there for a successful franchise. People would be drawn to the games, that wouldnt be a problem. Look at the raptors. Everyone had teh exact same questions when they were given a franchise, yet here we are over a decade later and they are still successful (money making wise). The raptors have been a terrible team for the majority of their lifespan, yet have never had trouble drawing a crowd. And lets not forget, 30% of people who attend buffalo bills games each weekend are actually canadian. You would get commuters from everywhere, including hamilton and quebec and such. The there would also be the people who would drive from buffalo to see the games as well. I dont think getting the fans would be a problem at all.

Also, it isnt like there isnt an interest in NFL football in toronto. THis isnt the first time this has been talked about, i remember hearing people talk about this exact same thing 10 years ago, except then it was merging the argonauts into the NFL with an expansion draft and such. This new NFL francise however, would likely spell the end for the argos. They do have some trouble selling out games, and this for sure wouldnt help.

All in all, i see the team moving to Toronto and succeeding. Of course tehre will be faactors no one can anticipate, but the grounds are tehre for a successful franchise. Just some opposite points from someone who also lives in toronto.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:50 AM    (permalink
Billingsley26
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Originally Posted by A Perfect Score View Post
just some comments in comparison to a few posts above...


Billingsly26 posted some good stuff, but i completely disagree. I live in Toronto as well, and I think with proper marketing and a solid business plan, then the team will flourish in Toronto.

Yes, it is a hockey town. The Maple leafs are huge here, whether they are winning or not. But that doesnt mean that an NFL franchise wouldnt succeed. They are two totally differant sports, with differant fanbases. Whether we want to admit it or not, the parts are there for a successful franchise. People would be drawn to the games, that wouldnt be a problem. Look at the raptors. Everyone had teh exact same questions when they were given a franchise, yet here we are over a decade later and they are still successful (money making wise). The raptors have been a terrible team for the majority of their lifespan, yet have never had trouble drawing a crowd. And lets not forget, 30% of people who attend buffalo bills games each weekend are actually canadian. You would get commuters from everywhere, including hamilton and quebec and such. The there would also be the people who would drive from buffalo to see the games as well. I dont think getting the fans would be a problem at all.

Also, it isnt like there isnt an interest in NFL football in toronto. THis isnt the first time this has been talked about, i remember hearing people talk about this exact same thing 10 years ago, except then it was merging the argonauts into the NFL with an expansion draft and such. This new NFL francise however, would likely spell the end for the argos. They do have some trouble selling out games, and this for sure wouldnt help.

All in all, i see the team moving to Toronto and succeeding. Of course tehre will be faactors no one can anticipate, but the grounds are tehre for a successful franchise. Just some opposite points from someone who also lives in toronto.
allright, good points made.

let me ask you something. were the raptors really selling a few years ago when they had rob babcock as gm? no they weren't, they had a tough time selling tickets. why are they selling now? perhaps because they won the division last year, and are most likely going to make the playoffs again this year. like i said, you only sell in toronto if 1. you are the toronto maple leafs or 2. you are winning. i will stand by that, and i think most people from toronto will too, or at least should.

yes, a lot of canadians go to bills game, but a lot of those people dont mind driving 1.5 hours, when they only pay 50 buck for tickets. but how about now, when your gonna pay at least 30 dollars for parking, and tickets that average out to be at least $250? there are a lot of places in ontario which dont hold very wealthy people, who will not be able to pay top prices for tickets. if the bills move to toronto, for the most part, it will be a lot of "suits" who buy the tickets. at least for the few years it is a novelty. i owuld highly doubt that a lot of people from buffalo would come down to see a game. if anything, the cost to come down along with sour feelings of the team leaving would hold them back.

where i do agree that an nfl team in toronto would spell the end for the argos, i still dont think it would last. i am not convinced yet that there are enough true football fans in toronto to support the bills if they come. football is not a sport that a lot of people are knowledgable about. like i said, this will be a hot item for a short period of time, but once it wears its welcome, the team will be lucky to draw fans. especially if MLSE runs the team, because we all know that their #1 on the list is ROI. and they could care less about the product on the field/ ice. as apparent with the leafs.
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