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Old 02-01-2010, 10:43 PM    (permalink
RyanBraun8
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Originally Posted by RockJock07 View Post
I'm basing it on shear numbers and athletic ability. If the Packers are going to commit to the 3-4, Aaron for all he has done for GB, is done here which is a shame but the Packers need athletic players who's game is for suited for the 3-4 which Aaron's was not.
There are many players who are physicially and athletically superior and never pan out. I bet he will be outstanding at it but ha I don't to be the one to take the chance. Could we afford to eat another Joe Johnson contract but even worse?
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm 100% in favor of an all-purpose back like the ones you mention. Just seems to me like the icing on the cake to our skill-positions on offense. I know the organization probably is still hoping B-Jackson can be that but I for one am not sold on Jackson. He has had his chances, and shown slight flashes but no where near consistent enough.

Oh and isn't Reggie Bush a FA? I would cream myself if the Packers got Bush, I still absolutely love him no matter what anyone says. All hail Reggie!
It could be just me but B-Jack just doesn't seem very explosive. I love his pass protection, does good on screens, good vision to get him some decent yards but I can't ever see him as a homerun hitter. He is just okay, not bad, not great, just average. You can tell the Packers still have hope in him. I wouldn't mind if we were to draft a true powerback like Blount eighter. I hate having to pound the ball with Kuhn.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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As sexy as Reggie Bush would be in this offense, there is 0 chance he will come to Green Bay. Hollywood lifestyle, young, famous for nothing girlfriend in LA, etc...

They could try, but I'd bet my left arm he'll look 15 other places before considering the North.
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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As sexy as Reggie Bush would be in this offense, there is 0 chance he will come to Green Bay. Hollywood lifestyle, young, famous for nothing girlfriend in LA, etc...

They could try, but I'd bet my left arm he'll look 15 other places before considering the North.
I regretfully concur. Still I can dream.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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Why would GB invest all that money in a one dimensional pass rusher? No knock on Peppers athletic ability because everyone knows he truly is freakish but I don't like his chances as a successful 3-4 OLB.
Quite honestly, the simple answer to that simple question is: because we got carved up like a turkey on Thanksgiving by good QB's, NOT because our DB was bad, but because nobody could ever get pass rush on those QBs. It's all about the pass rush. Did anyone see the difference in defenses from the Saints vs Arizona and us vs Arizona? Or the Saints vs Minnesota compared to us vs Minnesota? It wasn't because the Saints DBs and LBs are better. It was 100% because they hurried, battered and bruised Favre and Warner.

Matthews is good at getting to QBs.
Peppers is better. Imagine that combo.
Use your imagination fellas. Forget the price tag. Sometimes you gotta buy the best. And please, nobody here compare Peppers to Joe Johnson.

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Old 02-02-2010, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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One more year for the old man? Packers fans: http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...on_rss _daily
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Quite honestly, the simple answer to that simple question is: because we got carved up like a turkey on Thanksgiving by good QB's, NOT because our DB was bad, but because nobody could ever get pass rush on those QBs. It's all about the pass rush. Did anyone see the difference in defenses from the Saints vs Arizona and us vs Arizona? Or the Saints vs Minnesota compared to us vs Minnesota? It wasn't because the Saints DBs and LBs are better. It was 100% because they hurried, battered and bruised Favre and Warner.

Matthews is good at getting to QBs.
Peppers is better. Imagine that combo.
Use your imagination fellas. Forget the price tag. Sometimes you gotta buy the best. And please, nobody here compare Peppers to Joe Johnson.
Great post. Comparing Peppers to Johnson is a complete joke and is a slap in the fact to what Peppers has done throughout his career. We have to take a risk at some point.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, in no way was I comparing them for there football abilities. I just used Johnson to point out huge contracts could bit us in the ass. Peppers is great, there is no questioning that but when people complain about about our LB's coverage (example Hawk) what is going to be different with Julius. He has never had to cover any before in his life. Look at how the Packers used Kampman. It was like 50/50 if he was coming or dropping back. They weren't giving him a chance to do what he is great at which is putting his hand on the ground and getting after it. We can marvel all we want about Peppers athletic ability but not many 6'7 300 players can be very effective in coverage. If the plan isn't to have Peppers coming on every single down like he needs to be doing then no way I spend the money. I personally don't know how one of the most prolific DE's over the last 8 seasons could want to stop putting his hand in the ground and coming every single down. It has to be hard to swallow and adjust to. You could tell it bugged Kampman.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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Could we afford to eat another Joe Johnson contract but even worse?
Read closely.... were does it say anywhere on here that Peppers is compared to Johnson. If it doesn't pan out we will be eating a giant contract just like we did with Joe Johnson. Read the actual words that I wrote down instead of trying to put words in my mouth. I do think he COULD be great and OLB but realistically I am not going to spend 12 million a year to find out. Hence why the contract would be worse (a lot more money)

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Old 02-02-2010, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, in no way was I comparing them for there football abilities. I just used Johnson to point out huge contracts could bit us in the ass. Peppers is great, there is no questioning that but when people complain about about our LB's coverage (example Hawk) what is going to be different with Julius.
ILBers are the ones who need to do the bulk of the covering. That's why they paid Chillar so much.
OLBers in these schemes, like DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, Joey Porter, James Harrison, Elvis Dumervil are important NOT because they are great cover guys, but because they get to the QB. Getting to the QB is absolutely critical and is the one thing that killed us. Peppers gets to QBs as well as any of those guys listed above.

Plus I would bet that he's better at covering his space than guys like Ware, Dumervil, Harrison, Woodley, Porter and Merriman if that's what you are looking for. Think about it: He's agile and 6-6. Would you want to throw over him? Harrison and Dumervil are midgets compared to him, if that cover ability is what you want from your OLB.

Don't worry about the finances. That finds a way of working itself out. Look at the Vikings. They kept adding high priced guys everywhere.
OL with Hutchinson.
WR with Berrian.
K with Longwell.
S with Sharper when we let him go.
DL with big Pat Williams.
DL with Jared Allen.
DB with Winfield.
QB with Favre.
They drafted NONE of those guys. Think about that. Zero draft picks there for the grape apes.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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ILBers are the ones who need to do the bulk of the covering. That's why they paid Chillar so much.
OLBers in these schemes, like DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, Joey Porter, James Harrison, Elvis Dumervil are important NOT because they are great cover guys, but because they get to the QB. Getting to the QB is absolutely critical and is the one thing that killed us. Peppers gets to QBs as well as any of those guys listed above.

Plus I would bet that he's better at covering his space than guys like Ware, Dumervil, Harrison, Woodley, Porter and Merriman if that's what you are looking for. Think about it: He's agile and 6-6. Would you want to throw over him? Harrison and Dumervil are midgets compared to him, if that cover ability is what you want from your OLB.

Don't worry about the finances. That finds a way of working itself out. Look at the Vikings. They kept adding high priced guys everywhere.
OL with Hutchinson.
WR with Berrian.
K with Longwell.
S with Sharper when we let him go.
DL with big Pat Williams.
DL with Jared Allen.
DB with Winfield.
QB with Favre.
They drafted NONE of those guys. Think about that. Zero draft picks there for the grape apes.
I'd go for another facepalm picture here, but it just seem redundant...
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Zero draft picks there for the grape apes.
How about the 1st and two 3rd traded for Allen?

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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Don't worry about the finances. That finds a way of working itself out.
Are you serious? Look at what that policy has done for the 49ers/Redskins in the past.

You know what else the Vikings Haven't done? Found a franchise QB. They got very lucky that a QB of Favre's caliber ended up on the market at the perfect time. That don't happen often, you find those in the draft.
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Are you serious? Look at what that policy has done for the 49ers/Redskins in the past.

You know what else the Vikings Haven't done? Found a franchise QB. They got very lucky that a QB of Favre's caliber ended up on the market at the perfect time. That don't happen often, you find those in the draft.
Really?
NFC's Final 4 Teams this year:
Drew Brees, Saints
Brett Favre, Vikings
Kurt Warner, Arizona
Tony Romo, Cowboys

0 of 4 were drafted by those teams.
4 of 4 weren't.
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Ok time to get out of this fantasy world of signing Peppers, trading for Cromartie, trading for Merriman, ect...

Here's what I think we should do with our free agents:


Our Free Agents

Unrestricted Free Agents

OT Chad Clifton - Re-sign 1 year. We have no other options. He should be cheap to keep for another season while we groom a replacement.

LB/DE Aaron Kampman - Re-sign 1 year. He's applied the pressure but didn't get to the QB as much as we expected. Would make a nice duo with Brad Jones.

NT Ryan Pickett - Transition tag. He's getting older, developing nagging injuries, and we have Raji in the wings. Bring Pickett back for another year or potentially trade him for picks.

RB Ahman Green - Re-sign 1 year. Grant gets the lions share of the carries anways and Brandon Jackson is going to be the 3rd down RB. Green can have whats left while providing veteran leadership.

OT Mark Tauscher - Re-sign 2 years. If we draft a LT of the future I'd like to start him at RT to help him develop. Tauscher is a nice fallback option who still has some life left in the NFL.

Exclusive Rights Free Agents

S Atari Bigby - Tender offer. He's solid and could benefit from being healthy for a change.

CB Will Blackmon -Tender offer. Good return man who's a descent dime CB.

G Daryn Colledge - No offer. Time to cut the cord on our worst starting offensive lineman.

DE Johnny Jolly - Tender offer. Had a great season in the 3-4 and continues to get better every year.

FB John Kuhn - Tender offer. Tough call seeing we have Hall and Johnson but Kuhn has been a valuable player at FB and on special teams. I think we'll only carry 2 FBs this year so competition will be tight.

C/G Jason Spitz - Tender offer. - Solid player when healthy. With Colledge gone he could take over at LG.

S Derrick Martin - Tender offer. Good special teamer who's versitile.

P Jeremy Kapinos - Tender offer. Bring him back but there will be competition.

TE Spencer Havner - Tender offer. Produced when needed and a valuable special teamer.

Restricted Free Agents

CB Tramon Williams - Tender offer. Make or break season for him. If he performs well our CB situation become much more clearer. Otherwise he's due to be a nickleback.

RB DeShawn Wynn - No offer. His injuries are getting old. Has talent but he's no longer worth waiting for.

Draft

1) OT Bruce Campbell
2) DE Corey Wootton
3) OC Maurkice Pouncey
4) CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah
5) RB Javarris James
6) WR Taylor Price
7) OT Derek Hardman
7) QB Rusty Smith
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Really?
NFC's Final 4 Teams this year:
Drew Brees, Saints
Brett Favre, Vikings
Kurt Warner, Arizona
Tony Romo, Cowboys

0 of 4 were drafted by those teams.
4 of 4 weren't.
Yet 8 of the 12 playoff teams started QBs that they drafted. Way to only put the stats that favored your point in your post.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Really?
NFC's Final 4 Teams this year:
Drew Brees, Saints
Brett Favre, Vikings
Kurt Warner, Arizona
Tony Romo, Cowboys

0 of 4 were drafted by those teams.
4 of 4 weren't.
Tony Romo was signed as a UDFA, so i would consider that as a half truth. Cause he has spent his whole career as a cowboy.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Romo and Warner weren't given huge sums of money or considered a franchise QB. Romo wasn't drafted by the Cowboys but was a UDFA for them and cost them almost nothing. Warner's career was over and he was brought in to Arizona to back-up/bridge Leinart the way he did Eli. Brees is the only legit Franchise QB of those 4.

Do you really want the Packers to be the Redskins? or the Vikings? How many super bowls have they won over the last 10 years by over paying for free agents because the player is going to get them over the hump? ZERO! Marvel all you want how Packers need to spend, spend, spend and shouldn't care if Peppers wants a Haynesworth contract but I am going to continue to care about the future of the Packers and them being smart.

CV is right lets move onto reality and get over the Peppers idea because TT is not going to make that happen no matter how much some may want it.

Leon Washington is the one player that really catches my eye who will be an UFA. If there is no new CBA this draft class is pretty bare and unattractive. If we go after someone I think he'd be a great choice and after his injury may be able to get him at a reasonable price.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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this is actually one of the deeper draft classes in recent memory. and TT wont sign peppers or let alone anyone of great stature. Lets be realistic, it is not TT's style to go out and spend large amounts of money on players. He builds through the draft, he trades down to get picks, and he stays true to his draft board. That is TT's MO. its not signing huge contract players. I know Charles woodson, but he is the exception and not the rule. Other than CW there is not a single big signing in TT's past.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
TitleTown088
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Originally Posted by RyanBraun8 View Post
Brees is the only legit Franchise QB of those 4.
Exactly my point. AT 40/38 Favre and Warner were not regarded as "franchise QBs". Brees as an oddity because they had Rivers.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
Yet 8 of the 12 playoff teams started QBs that they drafted. Way to only put the stats that favored your point in your post.
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Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
Ok time to get out of this fantasy world of signing Peppers, trading for Cromartie, trading for Merriman, ect...

Here's what I think we should do with our free agents:


Our Free Agents

Unrestricted Free Agents

OT Chad Clifton - Re-sign 1 year. We have no other options. He should be cheap to keep for another season while we groom a replacement.

LB/DE Aaron Kampman - Re-sign 1 year. He's applied the pressure but didn't get to the QB as much as we expected. Would make a nice duo with Brad Jones.

NT Ryan Pickett - Transition tag. He's getting older, developing nagging injuries, and we have Raji in the wings. Bring Pickett back for another year or potentially trade him for picks.

RB Ahman Green - Re-sign 1 year. Grant gets the lions share of the carries anways and Brandon Jackson is going to be the 3rd down RB. Green can have whats left while providing veteran leadership.

OT Mark Tauscher - Re-sign 2 years. If we draft a LT of the future I'd like to start him at RT to help him develop. Tauscher is a nice fallback option who still has some life left in the NFL.

Exclusive Rights Free Agents

S Atari Bigby - Tender offer. He's solid and could benefit from being healthy for a change.

CB Will Blackmon -Tender offer. Good return man who's a descent dime CB.

G Daryn Colledge - No offer. Time to cut the cord on our worst starting offensive lineman.

DE Johnny Jolly - Tender offer. Had a great season in the 3-4 and continues to get better every year.

FB John Kuhn - Tender offer. Tough call seeing we have Hall and Johnson but Kuhn has been a valuable player at FB and on special teams. I think we'll only carry 2 FBs this year so competition will be tight.

C/G Jason Spitz - Tender offer. - Solid player when healthy. With Colledge gone he could take over at LG.

S Derrick Martin - Tender offer. Good special teamer who's versitile.

P Jeremy Kapinos - Tender offer. Bring him back but there will be competition.

TE Spencer Havner - Tender offer. Produced when needed and a valuable special teamer.

Restricted Free Agents

CB Tramon Williams - Tender offer. Make or break season for him. If he performs well our CB situation become much more clearer. Otherwise he's due to be a nickleback.

RB DeShawn Wynn - No offer. His injuries are getting old. Has talent but he's no longer worth waiting for.

Draft

1) OT Bruce Campbell
2) DE Corey Wootton
3) OC Maurkice Pouncey
4) CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah
5) RB Javarris James
6) WR Taylor Price
7) OT Derek Hardman
7) QB Rusty Smith
I like the FA decisions and Campbell with the first pick.
But between the draft and FA, I see nothing done about our glaring lack of pass rush vs good QB's here. That was our fatal achilles heal. We exited from the playoffs because we couldn't get close to Warner, as we couldn't get close to Favre twice. Hoping Jones or Obiozor improves is one thing, but like they waited on Harrell, it's too important to fix that. I don't know about Wootton, is he a DE like Brandon Graham who will convert to a OLB in the 3-4? If so, perfect.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Yet 8 of the 12 playoff teams started QBs that they drafted. Way to only put the stats that favored your point in your post.
Not true.
But the fact is the Final 4 in the NFC started QBs that they did not draft.
So calling the Vikings or Saints lucky they got one not-in-the-draft is not accurate really. It's aggressive. Sometimes you strike out (see the Redskins).
Sometimes you hit home runs. The Rams wouldn't have gone to those Super Bowls without Marshall Faulk, and they didn't draft him. The Steelers didn't draft Jerome Bettis. Or James Harrison. Things have changed on the NFL Landscape over the past 20 years. It's not all about the draft.

Imagine us without Woodson and Harris. Neither our draft picks.

The Saints with Brees is one thing. But their top 2 players on defense this season: Darren Sharper and Jonathan Vilma.

Don't let Daniel Synder's free agent follies scare you away from utilizing one of the tools in building a team in today's NFL.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:16 PM    (permalink
cvv84
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Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
Yet 8 of the 12 playoff teams started QBs that they drafted. Way to only put the stats that favored your point in your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Not true.
1) Patriots - Tom Brady
2) Jets - Mark Sanchez
3) Bengals - Carson Palmer
4) Ravens - Joe Flacco
5) Colts - Peyton Manning
6) Chargers - Phillip Rivers
7) Eagles - Donovan McNabb
8) Packers - Aaron Rodgers

How is that not true?
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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past green bay free agents.
2009: Anthony Smith, Duke Preston,
2008:Brandon Chillar, LS Thomas Gafford and OT Joe Toledo
2007: Frank Walker
i dont really see us changing from our track record, i would go more indepth but i can not find any more websites that would have free agent signings from 2006 and down.
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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People always say this or that free agent will never live up to the contract he signs. Well those people just don't understand inflation or finances. That huge contract Peppers is going to sign will sound massive and everyone will say he won't play up to it. Halfway through the contract though it will seem about right and towards the end it will sound cheap, or it might be a backloaded contract with a few expensive years on the end that he never sees.

Now that I got that out of the way I want to change my tone. For us Peppers WOULD NOT live up to the contract we gave him. He's a 4-3 DE people. I don't care if he said he wants to play in a 3-4, I wont change my opinion until someone like Dom Capers or Kevin Greene says he should play in a 3-4. It would be just like Kampman part II, except a little better player with a lot higher expectations - because we actually picked him and gave him a bunch of long term money. He would probably get to the QB better than Brad Jones - keep in mind though that we'd be replacing a natural linebacker with someone who always rushed from a down stance. But we'd have the same problem where half of our defense is going to struggle with outside contain and coverage in the 0-5 yard range. Not even close to worth it.

As much as I hate Merriman I'd rather have him because he is actually a linebacker and can do those things.

Sometimes I wonder if people are just looking for Reggie White part II, paying attention to the similarities and ignoring the differences.

The economy might help us in free agency right now. Our franchise is immune to the recession since we always sell out and the state's priorities pretty much go water-food-shelter-packers (clothing would be next except they'll just buy Packer clothes if they had to...). So prices might come down with a lot of teams not driving up the bid for free agents. Of course there are still some near death billionaires around to screw it up for us (looking at you, Al Davis), but this franchise has the best chance in this type of economic climate.
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