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Old 06-12-2010, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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It's between him and Rivers, no doubt.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:03 AM    (permalink
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... I'm the punk on the left.
Dude on the left looks like a modern, shorter, version of 1975 Bill Walton, former NCAA & NBA Legend !!!
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:04 AM    (permalink
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It's between him and Rivers, no doubt.
I agree.
But I know plenty who really think Matt Ryan is in the debate.
Others also think Stafford and Flacco have tons of upside. I think Flacco is way overrated, but with their WR additions this year, he has a chance to prove me wrong.
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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I agree.
But I know plenty who really think Matt Ryan is in the debate.
Others also think Stafford and Flacco have tons of upside. I think Flacco is way overrated, but with their WR additions this year, he has a chance to prove me wrong.
Ryan, Stafford and Flacco aren't even close to where Rodgers was his rookie season (1st season as starter) Id like to see any of them play behind the line Rodgers did this season and I guarantee it wont be pretty. What he was able to do knowing hes likely to get crushed every time he drops back was amazing. He knew the line wasn't holding up but the guy remained calm and did his thing.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Ryan, Stafford and Flacco aren't even close to where Rodgers was his rookie season (1st season as starter) Id like to see any of them play behind the line Rodgers did this season and I guarantee it wont be pretty. What he was able to do knowing hes likely to get crushed every time he drops back was amazing. He knew the line wasn't holding up but the guy remained calm and did his thing.
Rodgers also had the benefit of sitting for 3 years, learning and practicing the same offense so that just makes what Ryan and Flacco did as rookies that much more spectacular.

I'm not saying they are on par with Rodgers, because I firmly believe Rodgers is a top 5 QB in the NFL, but as true rookies I think what Ryan and Flacco did was pretty astounding. Stafford doesn't even belong in the converstation.
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Old 06-12-2010, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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I think the running games both Atlanta and Baltimore have need to be factored in as well. Ryan's rookie year, Michael Turner dominated the NFL. His amount of carries was ridiculous. And the Ravens have always had a couple more than capable backs.

I don't mean to take away from Flacco's and Ryan's accomplishments, because doing what they did as 1st year rookies was incredible. But Rodger's has been protected by a less than stellar offensive line and basically a 1-trick RB. It's hard to imagine Rodger's being better than he was last year, but it'll be a blast watching these young guns continue to grow and lead the NFL.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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I was looking at the OTA/Mini camp pictures thread and I dont think there is any of the Packers. Do you guys have any????
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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I don't mean to take away from Flacco's and Ryan's accomplishments, because doing what they did as 1st year rookies was incredible. .
I've always found those rookies seasons to be extremely overrated. What's so impressive about 16 TD and 11 int from Ryan...?

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I was looking at the OTA/Mini camp pictures thread and I dont think there is any of the Packers. Do you guys have any????

http://packers.com

check the photo section.
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Old 06-13-2010, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I was looking at the OTA/Mini camp pictures thread and I dont think there is any of the Packers. Do you guys have any????
JSOnline.com has a few different albums from this month in there.
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Old 06-13-2010, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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I've always found those rookies seasons to be extremely overrated. What's so impressive about 16 TD and 11 int from Ryan...?
It's the wins that was impressive. Flacco with 13 (2 in playoffs) and Matt Ryan with 11 and a 6-point loss to the Cardinals in the wildcard round. Only 11 interceptions with a 61% passer rating and 3400 yards is a nice season by anyone's standards. And Michael Turner had 17 rushing TDs and Norwood 4, so his passing TD total didn't need to be any higher.

I'm not sure why I'm defending Ryan so much, because I honestly couldn't care any less about him. I think it's because I was so sure he'd be a bust that his success threw me for a big time loop.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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It's the wins that was impressive. Flacco with 13 (2 in playoffs) and Matt Ryan with 11 and a 6-point loss to the Cardinals in the wildcard round. Only 11 interceptions with a 61% passer rating and 3400 yards is a nice season by anyone's standards. And Michael Turner had 17 rushing TDs and Norwood 4, so his passing TD total didn't need to be any higher.
Exactly though, the team won those games, not just Ryan. Those young QBs got too much credit for being on good teams. Like you said they had nice seasons, not spectacular.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Exactly though, the team won those games, not just Ryan. Those young QBs got too much credit for being on good teams. Like you said they had nice seasons, not spectacular.
Thats a pretty baseless statement and you can say that just about any team on any Sunday. But when its a QB coming fresh out of college and taking on a whole new speed of the game, all the while commanding the huddle and making in-game adjustments, its a pretty spectacular achievement. Just because their TD/INT rate wasn't on par with the top tier QBs doesn't mean they were game managing rookies.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Thats a pretty baseless statement and you can say that just about any team on any Sunday. But when its a QB coming fresh out of college and taking on a whole new speed of the game, all the while commanding the huddle and making in-game adjustments, its a pretty spectacular achievement. Just because their TD/INT rate wasn't on par with the top tier QBs doesn't mean they were game managing rookies.
I'll give you another baseless statement that's true: Matt Ryan isn't very good. :)
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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I'll give you another baseless statement that's true: Matt Ryan isn't very good. :)
Nice debate.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports....html#comments

Some RFA information.

I'd leave Bigby's tender, keep Williams' tender while working on an extension, and drop Jolly to 110%.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I'd reduce them all. If they're going to hurt the team by not being there, practicing, then they should get hurt financially.

I'd love to extend Trammon but we have to do so realistically. Is he capable of being a number 2 CB or is he better suited at nickleback. He might turn into one of those guys who get overpaid to be a starter and struggle at that role, i.e. Rod Hood.

Jolly should also be shopped. He's clearly not going to get an extention and has fallen out of favor with Packer brass. Get what we can for him while we can. Depends on the outcome/status of his trial of course.
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Old 06-14-2010, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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cvv84 is onto something tonight, although I don't think anyone would/could give us anything right now for Jolly.
Cood call on Rod Hood, and one might mention Cletidus Hunt as well, who Dennis Miller once said his name sounds like the title of a new reality show on CBS.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Jolly ended up signing his tender.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Jolly ended up signing his tender.
What happens with Tramon and Bigby now that they didnt sighn by the deadline?
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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I am just amazed by this situation.... both agents of these two players should be fired. Bigby is alright with the fact that his cut will not be much ($500,000) or so but if he thinks he has any leverage at all he is kidding himself. All he has done so far is allowed Burnett to just walk in and damn near steal his spot away from him. If he holds out of training camp at all, that just will be gone...Burnett is no bumb and someone needs to inform Bigby of that.

Williams now has some leverage but the Packers already gave him a very nice tender for this season (much higher than most thought he should get). I get that Tramon thinks he has has the leverage to lock down a big deal but is not worth losing 3 million over. Tenders are not idea but you still continue to hash out a new contract once it is signed. It is only for one year. I'm a fan of Tramon but I doubt that this will get him the contact he wants.
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Bigby is going to be very dissapointed when he finally comes to camp with less money than he expected and fighting for a job he could have had if he had showed up earlier.

Tramon on the other hand is very different. We need him and he knows we need him. The Packers aren't willing to pay his price however. They will have to meet in the middle on a one year tender and get something done mid season or I think Tramon will walk after this year. Then again, he would have more leverage the longer he stays on board with us to get that mega deal he wants because Harris and Woodson aren't getting younger. Interesting to see how that plays out.
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Wait, have any of you seen that they didn't sign? Last I heard it was still unknown.
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Bigby 99% didn't sign. Stupid. He loses in the long run. At some point the coaches are going to say "we're moving forward with the guy who's here" and it's getting harder for Bigby to have a good season and even hold the starting job. Short term he loses about $50,000. Stupid. As a pro athlete he makes a couple million a year but that's going to last maybe 10 years if he's lucky and then he's got nothing. $50,000 is another year of paid retirement for running around in shorts doing stuff he's expected to do anyway.
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:02 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Listen, the players (and their agents) are very aware that their careers are quite short, so they try and squeeze the team (ultimately the fans) for as many now dollars as they can.
But they also know their careers are very short, so they know sitting out/holding out for one of their prime few years is also stupid.

If this happens to Tramon or Bigby, I can tell you that their agents will not be picking up a lot of new clients next season.

The rules of the CBA are clear, and the NFLPA agreed to it.
I hope the Packers, and all the teams, follow the rule and reduce their offers per the rules of the law.

I'm tired of greed in sports from owners to players. My Sunday Ticket has gone up like 400% since I first got it and player salaries are partly responsible. Same with the BS price of authentic jerseys and t-shirts, etc.

We know we can buy an exact-same-made and quality jersey for $40 from overseason (cuts out all the middle men), but here officially, we have t pay $200 so that the player can get their money, the NFLPA, the team, and the NFL.

nobody loves the NFL more than I do or the Packers (a lot of us might be tied, but can't be more than me), but I am tired of player salaries increasing at a ridiculous rate compared to everything else.

I saw a thing in Newsweek a few months ago and while some things have gone down over 10, 30, 50, 90 yards comparitively, and some up a little bit (average US salary), pro baseball, football, and basketball salaries have gone up astronomically. As have ticket prices.

So while I love our players, I'm never a fan of them b*tching for more money because ultimately, we pay for much of it.

Tramon has been offered a huge raise, and is turning down a $3+ million year. I like Tramon, but I agree with ^ above that Tramon has never proven to be a good starting CB, just a good nickelback. As a starter, overall his body of work is just okay.
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB12 View Post
Wait, have any of you seen that they didn't sign? Last I heard it was still unknown.
Jolly signed today I believe.
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