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Old 09-14-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
Sportsfan486
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People consistently underrate Grant. He takes what's there, doesn't fumble, pass blocks, and yet still has the ability to take over games (as was mentioned, people forget the big games he's had and stretches where he looked like a top 5 back.)

Jackson is our guy now.
Pros: Better pass-catcher, better/equal pass blocker, hopefully hungry to prove himself.
Cons: Dances too much, I question if he's got the same burst as Grant, has had some good games but mostly been unimpressive in his chances, likely to put the ball on the ground more.

I think this increases the load on Rodgers but he's getting a better receiving option and I feel like he can handle it. Jackson might actually benefit from teams focusing much more on the pass now and I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar YPC and TD as Grant; just because of easier runs.

I liked Jackson a lot when we drafted him and he's improved these last two seasons after looking below-mediocre. We'll see. We've proven our offensive scheme can create easy runs and make mediocre/bad backs look decent. I'm not even sure if bringing in a bad character guy like Lynch really improves us; our offense has good chemistry and good team players, do we want to screw that up?

Also, Kuhn is just beastly pounding the ball and it'll be nice to see him get some more carries.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say Jackson is more likely to put the ball on the ground. In the preseason the RB's had a bit of a fumbling issue, but honestly, Jackson has been about as sure handed as Grant has been. That is one thing I like about both of the guys. Neither is gonna fumble a lot
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say Jackson is more likely to put the ball on the ground. In the preseason the RB's had a bit of a fumbling issue, but honestly, Jackson has been about as sure handed as Grant has been. That is one thing I like about both of the guys. Neither is gonna fumble a lot
Yeah, you might be right. I'm just so scared. :(
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm just bummed that the Pack had 3 injuries(2 season enders) in the FIRST game of the season. That is such a huge kick to he balls, no matter what. You expect injuries every year, but damn, first game, as a fan, just stoked for football to be back(high expectations to) and that happens

But, they have a nice early part of the schedule, so I'm not worrying yet. I fear for what will happen when we have JAckson going up against the Vikes/Cowboys/Jets, etc, though
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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I'm just bummed that the Pack had 3 injuries(2 season enders) in the FIRST game of the season. That is such a huge kick to he balls, no matter what. You expect injuries every year, but damn, first game, as a fan, just stoked for football to be back(high expectations to) and that happens

But, they have a nice early part of the schedule, so I'm not worrying yet. I fear for what will happen when we have JAckson going up against the Vikes/Cowboys/Jets, etc, though
Meh, we weren't likely to run that much against those stout run Ds anyway. All three teams are weak(est) in the secondary.
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Awful awful news about Grant. This is definitely an injury that couldn't happen this year. I like Jackson a lot, and I think he could do fine as the #1. However, I feel he is the kind of RB that would need a good complementary back to flourish as a #1.

I really don't know what to expect out of Nance. Not sure what to think about this move, but I guess we should be used to this out of TT. He passed on several options (none great obviously) to get this guy, so I guess we will have faith in TT again. After all, we had no idea who Grant was when we traded for him. ;)
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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For those who 'hate' on Grant, I think this will be a scenario where we don't realize how much we'll miss someone until they're gone and I think Grant's absence will be evident once we get into the tough part of our schedule
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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For those who 'hate' on Grant, I think this will be a scenario where we don't realize how much we'll miss someone until they're gone and I think Grant's absence will be evident once we get into the tough part of our schedule
That'd kind of be nice for people to finally realize that, but god I hope we'll be able to get by.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Some fans just ask for too much. The hate that people have on Grant is because he isn't "flashy" etc. I have always appreciated what he has brought to the team. He really saved their season in 2007 coming out of nowhere. 08 he had a down year, but so did the entire team. 2009 he was very solid, averaging 4.5 ypc and had 11 rushing TD's. I mean, look at a team like the Pats, I'm sure they'd have loved to have Grant the last few years instead of using 4-5 different backs they seem to rotate in every game

Packers aren't a run first team, and havent been for awhile. They get their explosive plays via the deep ball, not from the run game...that's just a bonus if they break off one. We use the run game to keep defenses honest, move the chains and get the team into favorable 3rd downs
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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Packers aren't a run first team, and havent been for awhile. They get their explosive plays via the deep ball, not from the run game...that's just a bonus if they break off one. We use the run game to keep defenses honest, move the chains and get the team into favorable 3rd downs
This is true. It'll be interesting to see how we change up our offense. I just don't see us having the same success if we go out there and act like Jackson is Grant (which is precisely what I expect to happen.)

At least we have the advantage that Jackson adds a bit to the passing game; we need to take advantage of that and come out passing and then use the run when they only have 6 or 7 in the box, then utilize play action. Some really successful teams have done so with a great passing attack and mediocre (or worse) running backs.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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I think Jackson could handle the position just fine. There isn't many teams out there that have a #2 RB that can step in and handle a full load, but I honestly think Jackson can and I think the Packers think he can too only keeping 2 RB to start the season. He can catch the football and is very valuable as a blocker picking up blitzes.

He won't be up to Grant's caliber, but honestly if the blocking is there up front, he'll do just fine. I love Grant because he's just so consistent, but let's face it, he's good when the line is good and doesn't create that much by himself. If Jackson can get rid of the happy feet he had behind the line of scrimmage as a rookie and just be decisive and hit the hole hard, which it looks like he has when he's played the last 2 years, I think he'll be fine as long as the line is fine.

Now if anything happens to Jackson? yeesh.....
You know damn well it will. It's just a matter of time, unfortunately.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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The prospect of a 3-FB running game should something happen to Jackson is quite the strange wrinkle. Overall, the main thing that would change is a lot less outside running and more upfield running, but it also introduces a new dimension; imagine three FBs on the field at once, and you don't know who is going to get the ball and who is going to punch some linebackers in the mouth at the point of attack. It's like unearthing the Ancient T-Formation!

It's a shame it can't be paired with an OL better suited for smashmouth blocking.
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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ESPN now has us at #2 in the power rankings despite losing our star RB and DL for the season and having a starting DE in a cast presumably for quite a while. I get that the game was a rout until Vick came in but really? Our vaunted passing offense looks bad, we get destroyed by Vick, and lose our star RB with a bad backup and we're #2? Bull.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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ESPN now has us at #2 in the power rankings despite losing our star RB and DL for the season and having a starting DE in a cast presumably for quite a while. I get that the game was a rout until Vick came in but really? Our vaunted passing offense looks bad, we get destroyed by Vick, and lose our star RB with a bad backup and we're #2? Bull.
I love Grant, but that is the easiest position to replace, plus Jackson isn't much of a stepdown. Some say he's a step up. I don't know about that, but I just hope he doesn't get hurt too soon.

Our pass defense looked better, but how much of that was because of bad QB-play throwing the football? Can't tell yet.

Matthews is a beast, and thank Brett Favre for him because we needed that draft pick to obtain Matthews.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm really not worried about losing Grant. TBH I was more concerned when I thought he was going to idle on the roster for a month and then come back at 75%. Brandon Jackson looks like just as good a runner. Grant had 0 fumbles on carries last year though - we'll miss that big time. Grant wouldn't have repeated that anyway, can't really set the bar there for anyone. Jackson will actually let us run the ball more, IMO, as long as he's healthy. He's more of a consistent runner. He should have less negative carries, although he can't outrun anyone in the secondary. Math term - lower standard deviation. More runs of 3-6 yards and less runs of <1 or >10. My biggest concern is that he can hold up to the wear and tear. He couldn't his rookie year, although that's a terrible sample to look at, at this point, and since then he's never played a lot of snaps in a game. He's been very healthy though, not getting injured in practice or limited playing time like a lot of other guys.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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ESPN now has us at #2 in the power rankings despite losing our star RB and DL for the season and having a starting DE in a cast presumably for quite a while. I get that the game was a rout until Vick came in but really? Our vaunted passing offense looks bad, we get destroyed by Vick, and lose our star RB with a bad backup and we're #2? Bull.
Since when do power rankings even matter?

Star RB? He was good and consistent but hes not AD or CJ. I like the guy alot and will miss him but im not all that concerned yet.

DL out for the season? Harrell?? seriously lol

DE in a cast... It hurts but the bottom line is the guys still going to play 110% even with 1 hand.


Way to over react on the passing offense. It was 1 game sheesh.
Have we ever done well against Vick? no and we wont be the only ones having trouble trying to run the guy down.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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You guys are kidding yourselves if you believe Brandon Jackson is anywhere near the runner that Ryan Grant is/was. Over the past three seasons Grant has been one of the league's best and most consistent running the ball and while he isn't one of the top tier guys, his absence will hurt this offense and team.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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You guys are kidding yourselves if you believe Brandon Jackson is anywhere near the runner that Ryan Grant is/was. Over the past three seasons Grant has been one of the league's best and most consistent running the ball and while he isn't one of the top tier guys, his absence will hurt this offense and team.
Ryan Grant has been near the top of the league in stats only. And, ANY RB that was a feature RB in a high powered offense would be in the same position.


It's not like we're trying to replace Chris Johnson here. Grant didn't have an elite skill set. He was above average in many aspects of the game. He was reliable and didn't fumble.

But, just look at the Eagles game;
-When we needed a yard or 2, Kuhn excelled.
-When Grant came out, we didn't miss a beat with Brandon Jackson.
-And, it's not like we relied on Grant to break runs and spark the offense. He is secondary to the passing game.


And, really, let's look at this historically:
-1996/1997-Edgar Bennett out, Dorsey Levens in. Anybody know the difference beside a different jersey #?
-So, we'll plug Brandon Jackson in there. And, Dimitri Nance, a dude we pulled off the back end of another team's roster. Worst case scenario; he'll end up replacing Ryan Grant...a guy we pulled off the back end of another team's roster.
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
You guys are kidding yourselves if you believe Brandon Jackson is anywhere near the runner that Ryan Grant is/was. Over the past three seasons Grant has been one of the league's best and most consistent running the ball and while he isn't one of the top tier guys, his absence will hurt this offense and team.
Besides not fumbling and being really durable, he's clearly outside the top 16 RBs, probably in the 20s. So now that he's hurt we move from a guy that was maybe #23 to a guy that's maybe #35 which is not a big difference when we're talking running backs. Grant was nothing special. He never created yards that weren't there. You couldn't put him into another teams offense and see a noticeable upgrade in the running game. It really sucks that we only kept 2 running backs now though. I'd feel so much better if we had Lumpkin.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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NFL made a stat change and Clay has been credited with 3 sacks in last week's game. Stud.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitleTown088 View Post
NFL made a stat change and Clay has been credited with 3 sacks in last week's game. Stud.
ah, wonder if that was for when Matthews tackled Vick for a small loss on 4th and 1....?

there was one other situation where he tackled Vick for a loss on what seemed to be a clear designed running play.


but, good for Clay. He had one of the best games by any Packer linebacker in the last decade.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
Besides not fumbling and being really durable, he's clearly outside the top 16 RBs, probably in the 20s.
In the 20's?
What, in terms of 40-yard times? Glamour? Dreadlocks?
Sure.
You want Jerious Norwood because he's faster?

Or is Kevin Smith better because he was drafted higher?
Matt Forte?

The NFL is about production, and to the people who think Grant's top-10 production for 2 1/2 years was all a product of the system, well come back to us in 15 games and let's see if the next guy matches what Grant did last year. I mean what he produced, which was better than all but about 7 or 8 backs in the NFL, if that.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Good article today from the National Football Post, Andrew Brandt:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ker-twice.html

Quote:
The strange ranting of Randy Moss this week takes me back to the weekend of the 2007 Draft; much of it spent trying to sign Moss. It was a brief but intense negotiation that fueled some fire with Brett Favre when, for the first of two times, the Packers couldn’t agree with Moss on a contract.

Moss for sale

The Raiders bold experiment with Moss – they had traded Napoleon Harris and the 7th pick in the 2005 Draft for him – ended after two seasons when Moss could be had for a mid-round pick. Ted Thompson surprisingly had some interest, having been impressed with the way Moss handled himself at a charity event that he happened to be at in Texas. And Brett, of course, was extremely jazzed about the idea.

Now there were two parts to the deal to make it happen. First, there had to be agreement with the Raiders on draft pick compensation. We were offering a fifth-round pick and the Patriots later came up with a fourth. That, however, was the not the key to the deal.

One-year deal breaker

Moss was scheduled to make $9.75 million for 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008. Those amounts may well have been $100 million and $200 million; he was not making what was on the contract. We needed to bring in Moss, coming off a year with a pedestrian 43 receptions, at a more reasonable number with upside. The Patriots were also showing interest.

I negotiated with Moss’s agent while the recruiting from the alpha dogs – Brett and Tom Brady -- intensified. Moss was getting texts and calls throughout the weekend from both Favre and Brady both imploring him to come and form a powerhouse duo.

The offers from both teams were very similar for 2007, both around $3 million with additional incentives. Our proposal allowed Moss to make more than the Patriots proposal, although we had significant money tied to 45-man active roster bonuses, protecting us from injury if he could not play.

Our offer, however, required a second year in 2008. Moss and his agents were adamant that he wanted only a one-year deal. Having lost market value from his Raider experience, Moss would agree to a massive pay reduction for 2007 but wanted to hit the open market in 2008 coming off what he expected to be a big season.

The feeling in our discussions was that we did not want to rent Randy for a year only to have him shop to highest bidder in a few months trying to recoup some of his lost earnings in 2007. We discussed different ideas, but in the end we were insistent on a two-year deal. While we haggled about an appropriate roster bonus to activate the second year of the deal, the Patriots relented on the length and agreed to a one-year deal. That was it; he was going with Brady.

Mississippi burning

Brett was livid. The rest of the weekend I was fielding calls from Bus Cook about what went wrong in trying to sign Randy. Ted did not want to deal with Bus, so I listened patiently to their rancor and tried to explain our position.

I truly empathized with Brett. He had befriended and admired Randy for years and the two of them had dreamed of playing together. Here was an opportunity for us to make it a reality. But ultimately, we stood on our principles requiring more than a one-year commitment.

I told Brett to trust what we had at the position; that Greg Jennings would be a star in a couple years. He said he didn’t have a couple of years. Brett offered to give up some of his salary for the following season – although that was his last season with the Packers (see below) -- to bring in Randy. I told that was much appreciated but we would never take his money away from him to sign another player.

Brett was forever wanting a more aggressive attitude by the front office toward player acquisition than the present regime. My constant message that our method of drafting and developing talent rather than acquiring proven commodities only served to infuriate him and his resentment of a general manager that showed him none of the compassion and welcomed input of previous regimes.

Patriot games

Fast forward to 2008. After a wonderful year for the Patriots, catching 98 balls for 1493 yards and 23 touchdowns, Moss was a free agent as he designed, now with interest from several teams to cash in on his one-year deal. And cash in he did, re-signing with the Patriots for a three-year, $27 million deal with over $14 million guaranteed.

And guess what team showed some decent interest again in 2008? Yes, the Packers (along with the Eagles and Cowboys). But again, despite getting Brett's hopes up again, the Packers bowed out of the bidding (I had left the Packers at that point but heard the anger and frustration from Brett’s camp). Moss re-signed with the Patriots on March 3rd. Favre retired from the Packers on March 4th. Coincidence?

Whither Randy?

Now Moss is coming to the end of that deal with deafening silence from the Patriots about re-signing for the third time. A lot can change between now and March, but it appears he has had his run wit the team, and it’s been a successful and lucrative one. And one that found the Packers in second place for his services twice.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
Besides not fumbling and being really durable, he's clearly outside the top 16 RBs, probably in the 20s. So now that he's hurt we move from a guy that was maybe #23 to a guy that's maybe #35 which is not a big difference when we're talking running backs. Grant was nothing special. He never created yards that weren't there. You couldn't put him into another teams offense and see a noticeable upgrade in the running game. It really sucks that we only kept 2 running backs now though. I'd feel so much better if we had Lumpkin.
Why the **** do people refuse to give Ryan Grant any credit at all? 23rd? No ******* way.

Chris Johnson
Adrian Peterson
Steven Jackson
Ray Rice
Frank Gore
Maurice Jones-Drew
Michael Turner
Deangelo Williams

Those are the guys that are better than Ryan Grant

Rashard Mendenhall
Jamaal Charles
Jonathan Stewart

Those are the guys that are just behind/even to Ryan Grant

Ryan Grant is a top 12 back, no matter how much this forum wants to hate him.
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Old 09-15-2010, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers was asked Wednesday what he would say to the Packers if they asked for his opinion about a possible deal for disgruntled Bills running back Marshawn Lynch, Rodgers' former Cal teammate.

"Bring him on," Rodgers said, without hesitation.

Not even with his character knocks?

"He's a great player," Rodgers said of Lynch. "And any character issues the team might see, I think in a situation like that, and I think you've seen that with other players across the league, when you give a guy a change of scenery and a guy like that who feels he might have something to prove, and surround him with two guys, (Desmond) Bishop and myself who played with him...I think that can only help him feel comfortable and see a lot of production."

Rodgers said the Packers have not asked him about Lynch, and that Rodgers and Lynch have not spoken.
Let's do it
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