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Old 11-15-2006, 01:27 AM    (permalink
4pAc
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Come on people, the cowboys and ravens have more posts then us.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 4pAc
Come on people, the cowboys and ravens have more posts then us.
eh, don't worry...the posts will take care of themselves....we don't wanna have meaningless posts just to build up our thread...just keep doing what we're doing
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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we are making random posts by talking about who's ahead of us
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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This guy found this and posted it on Packersnews.com and I thought I'd pas it along, read if you like:

He says: "All credit to Cliff Christl for this piece.... This dang guy Reynolds SHOULD have given us a Dwight Freeney for 8 years off the edge. It would have allowed us to beat Philly that year. Painful. And same with Ferguson and no thought of Chambers. "



The Jamal Reynolds pick

There have been so many different versions offered by people in the Packers organization and various writers about the Jamal Reynolds pick in 2001 and whether retiring general manager Ron Wolf or Mike Sherman was mostly to blame that it might be instructive to look back at a story that appeared in The Sporting News in its April 30, 2001 edition. Paul Attner, a writer for the magazine, was given access to the Packers' draft room and wrote a first-hand account. It was emailed to me by one of our readers, Kevin Minshell, after I had recently written a column about how the 2001 draft was still haunting the Packers, more so than any other. What's interesting in Attner's account is that no mention is made of defensive tackle Marcus Stroud, who would have been an ideal pick there, and that the Packers' top two targets in the first round, Reynolds and Koren Robinson, both have been busts to this point.

Here's what Attner wrote:

"Wolf and Sherman were pretty confident that their first-round target - pass-rushing end Jamal Reynolds of Florida State - would still be around when they picked 10th in the first round. But that meant they needed to fix their other major need, receiver, in the second. And they were convinced that Robert Ferguson of Texas A&M would be gone by their present turn in that round. A trade with (Bill) Walsh would move them up six spots in the second, from 16 to 10, and from 18 to 9 in the third, and add a high fourth, where they currently had no choice. It meant giving up one of their three third-round picks in what became a five-for-three transaction. But Wolf knew Sherman, who was having trouble sleeping, would be buoyed by the positives of the deal.

"So four phone calls later, Walsh and Wolf agreed to agree. 'This could do it,' Sherman said to Wolf. Later that night at dinner, Wolf reviewed the 88th trade of his 10 years in Green Bay. 'In order for this to work, we've got to have both Reynolds and Ferguson,' he said. 'Otherwise, this might become the dumbest trade of my career. I could look like an idiot.'

"That would be a helluva way to go into retirement.

"In March, the Packers sent reserve quarterback Matt Hasselbeck to Seattle for an exchange of first-round choices and one of the Seahawks' third picks. The deal moved the Packers into the 10th spot of the opening round, assuring them of landing an impact player, a key aim of their draft strategy. The Seahawks dealt exclusively with Sherman, who would then talk to Wolf. The two men chuckled about how quickly things were changing.

"Now the 49ers deal has bolstered their spirits, and Wolf enters Saturday in a chipper mood. He had slept well the night before, and walked for an hour earlier in the morning. The draft room itself seems normal; it is filled with scouts, coaches, team executives and some members of the club's Executive Committee. Wolf thrives best in a casual atmosphere, with people moving in and out of the room, where he can joke and keep up a constant banter.

"As their first selection draws near, the room becomes quiet. The previous day, Wolf and Sherman had discussed strategy for three hours. Sherman had brought a laminated sheet, filled with 13 possible scenarios the Packers could face when their pick arrived. He had already checked off who he would select in each case. Now he wanted Wolfs thinking. They agreed every time. They expected either Reynolds or receiver Koren Robinson to be available. If both were there, they would go with Reynolds because they needed defensive linemen. If neither was around, they would go with defensive end Andre Carter, then linebacker Dan Morgan. No arguments allowed in Wolf's draft room, not when all the decisionmaking is already final.

"'Anyone nervous?' Wolf says after the fifth pick. 'I'm getting nervous. Isn't this exciting?' Gradually, a knot is growing in his stomach, just as it had done in 38 previous years. The knot increases when the 49ers trade with Seattle to get the draft's seventh pick. San Francisco needs a defensive lineman; maybe that means Reynolds. Instead, the 49ers go with Carter. When the Bears choose receiver David Terrell at eight, Wolf is ecstatic. 'We got one,' he says. Reynolds and Robinson are still on the board.

"The Seahawks, picking next, select Robinson. The Packers already are calling Reynolds. 'We are considering taking you as our first pick; do you think it is a good one?' Sherman says to him. Reynolds tells him yes. 'I thought so,' says Sherman. Laughter fills the draft room.

"Wolf jokingly asks Reggie McKenzie, his director of pro personnel, if Reynolds has two arms and two legs. McKenzie, straight-faced, assures him he does. He soon tells scouting coordinator Danny Mock to give Reynolds' name to the Packers' draft liaison in New York.

"When (Paul) Tagliabue makes the announcement, everyone in the room breaks into sustained applause. Wolf smiles.

"Before the second-round pick, Edie sits with him in the draft room. They usually eat dinner together at the end of the draft, as they will do this year, but she double dips with a first-day session. It is a family affair; son Eliot, a college freshman and aspiring general manager, places names on the team-by-team draft board. Edie brings him good luck. Ferguson is still available when the Packers' turn comes. Sherman and Wolf nod at each other. Wolf isn't an idiot after all.

"Sherman, just two years removed from being an assistant coach, has spent the past seven weeks getting a crash course in drafting from Wolf. Sherman would make notes and then enter them in a journal. 'Wolfisms,' he calls them. 'What better resource can I ask for than to have this man?' he says. 'He has developed a Packer Way. We grind out the draft, evaluating and then reevaluating. And he involves everyone, coaches and scouts. We'd like to keep the model going.' Wolf will be a consultant for three years; Sherman says he will call on him often.

"'It is amazing when it works, isn't it?' says Wolf after the first day. He's convinced Reynolds will be an immediate starter; Ferguson also should be one within a season. They later grab two project-type players in the third round, cornerback Bhawoh Jue and linebacker Torrance Marshall, then begin the second day by selecting guard Bill Ferrario of Wisconsin in the fourth. Wolf spends Sunday morning fretting that he should have chosen Ferrario in the third, so he is relieved that he is still available. To take his mind off things, he sits in his office and watches a car race.

"At 2:12 p.m. Central time, the Packers' last selection of the draft, in the sixth round, is announced. It is a classic scouting pick-a sleeper, David Martin of Tennessee, a wide receiver Wolf believes can make it as a right end. 'He's one of those players you want because you want to show you can project someone's talent that others might miss,' says Wolf. Before the announcement is made in New York, the Packers' draft room fills in anticipation of the moment. Sustained cheers greet the choice of Martin, the final pick of Wolf's decade in Green Bay. The previous day, all the scouts and personnel staff had posed for group and individual pictures with him. Now someone yells, 'Speech, speech.'"
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Something else someone passed along to me on that site:



8)
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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wow, i really liked that draft article. good find.
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drowe
wow, i really liked that draft article. good find.
Very true. Amazing how all that hard work goes into the draft and only the 6th rounder pans out. If Reynolds had been Dwight Freeney prior to there being Dwight Freeney, the Packers would have had some deeper playoff runs those three years they won the NFC North. As Jamal got injured and you can never predict that, I still find the taking of Ferguson over Chris Chambers more painful.

I'd like to see the same guy detail what a TT draft looks like. There must be a lot of phone time with all the trading down he does. Their draft board likely looks like no one else's. Heck, Tony Moll was considered a project and wasn't on any scouting agencies' draft list even as a 7th rounder. Yet he's going to have started 5 games for the Packers this year and has done a heck of a job unlike TT's guy last year who started 16 games at OG.
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Old 11-15-2006, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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anyone noticed any similarities between the two?







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Old 11-15-2006, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johbur
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowe
wow, i really liked that draft article. good find.
Very true. Amazing how all that hard work goes into the draft and only the 6th rounder pans out. If Reynolds had been Dwight Freeney prior to there being Dwight Freeney, the Packers would have had some deeper playoff runs those three years they won the NFC North. As Jamal got injured and you can never predict that, I still find the taking of Ferguson over Chris Chambers more painful.

I'd like to see the same guy detail what a TT draft looks like. There must be a lot of phone time with all the trading down he does. Their draft board likely looks like no one else's. Heck, Tony Moll was considered a project and wasn't on any scouting agencies' draft list even as a 7th rounder. Yet he's going to have started 5 games for the Packers this year and has done a heck of a job unlike TT's guy last year who started 16 games at OG.
Any draft Sherman was involved in was trash, really wish we would have saw that sooner
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Old 11-15-2006, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Looking back on the draft day trades:

Javon Walker and the 139th pick (Quinn Ojinnaka, OT) for Daryn Colledge, Will Blackmon, Ingle Martin, Johnny Jolly, and Tyrone Culver. Grade - B

- Considering the level Javon's playing at right now, he definitely appears worth more than the 37th pick. Daryn has played well, Blackmon looks promising, Martin looks OK, Jolly has been decent, and Culver has been decent.


The 36th pick (Chad Jackson) for Greg Jennings and Jason Spitz. Grade - A.

- Greg has outperformed Jackson, and Spitz has played well at guard and continues to improve.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny10804
Looking back on the draft day trades:

Javon Walker and the 139th pick (Quinn Ojinnaka, OT) for Daryn Colledge, Will Blackmon, Ingle Martin, Johnny Jolly, and Tyrone Culver. Grade - B

- Considering the level Javon's playing at right now, he definitely appears worth more than the 37th pick. Daryn has played well, Blackmon looks promising, Martin looks OK, Jolly has been decent, and Culver has been decent.


The 36th pick (Chad Jackson) for Greg Jennings and Jason Spitz. Grade - A.

- Greg has outperformed Jackson, and Spitz has played well at guard and continues to improve.
i have full confidence in TT. he obviously knows what he's doing. his trading down system has paid off.

interesting draft article. it's a shame the draft went as it did, Wolf was usually great.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny10804
Looking back on the draft day trades:

Javon Walker and the 139th pick (Quinn Ojinnaka, OT) for Daryn Colledge, Will Blackmon, Ingle Martin, Johnny Jolly, and Tyrone Culver. Grade - B

- Considering the level Javon's playing at right now, he definitely appears worth more than the 37th pick. Daryn has played well, Blackmon looks promising, Martin looks OK, Jolly has been decent, and Culver has been decent.


The 36th pick (Chad Jackson) for Greg Jennings and Jason Spitz. Grade - A.

- Greg has outperformed Jackson, and Spitz has played well at guard and continues to improve.
i have full confidence in TT. he obviously knows what he's doing. his trading down system has paid off.

interesting draft article. it's a shame the draft went as it did, Wolf was usually great.
TT is a god sent and is saving the franshice from what sherman did, or shall I say didn't do
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny10804
Looking back on the draft day trades:

Javon Walker and the 139th pick (Quinn Ojinnaka, OT) for Daryn Colledge, Will Blackmon, Ingle Martin, Johnny Jolly, and Tyrone Culver. Grade - B

- Considering the level Javon's playing at right now, he definitely appears worth more than the 37th pick. Daryn has played well, Blackmon looks promising, Martin looks OK, Jolly has been decent, and Culver has been decent.


The 36th pick (Chad Jackson) for Greg Jennings and Jason Spitz. Grade - A.

- Greg has outperformed Jackson, and Spitz has played well at guard and continues to improve.
I agree with your grade on the second trade but I'd bump the first one up a bit. Maybe to a B+ or A-. Reason being that even though Javon is playing greatly right now, there is no way he would have played that way for us or at all for that matter. It was a situation where either we play "hardball" with him for the year and try to see if we can get him back on board or we trade him and get the current value that he had through a trade. And every single player is still on the roster and has a possible bright future.
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Hey Packers fans:



Got any cheese?!?!
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:20 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70challenger457
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny10804
Looking back on the draft day trades:

Javon Walker and the 139th pick (Quinn Ojinnaka, OT) for Daryn Colledge, Will Blackmon, Ingle Martin, Johnny Jolly, and Tyrone Culver. Grade - B

- Considering the level Javon's playing at right now, he definitely appears worth more than the 37th pick. Daryn has played well, Blackmon looks promising, Martin looks OK, Jolly has been decent, and Culver has been decent.


The 36th pick (Chad Jackson) for Greg Jennings and Jason Spitz. Grade - A.

- Greg has outperformed Jackson, and Spitz has played well at guard and continues to improve.
i have full confidence in TT. he obviously knows what he's doing. his trading down system has paid off.

interesting draft article. it's a shame the draft went as it did, Wolf was usually great.
TT is a god sent and is saving the franshice from what sherman did, or shall I say didn't do
I've been saying it forever now, but TT has done a remarkable job at drafting and clearing out the guys that have just been eating up cap space. He's rebuilt the Packers into a team infused with youth and talent that should be able to compete in a year or so as they mature.
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitschke-Hawk
This guy found this and posted it on Packersnews.com and I thought I'd pas it along, read if you like:

He says: "All credit to Cliff Christl for this piece.... This dang guy Reynolds SHOULD have given us a Dwight Freeney for 8 years off the edge. It would have allowed us to beat Philly that year. Painful. And same with Ferguson and no thought of Chambers. "



The Jamal Reynolds pick

There have been so many different versions offered by people in the Packers organization and various writers about the Jamal Reynolds pick in 2001 and whether retiring general manager Ron Wolf or Mike Sherman was mostly to blame that it might be instructive to look back at a story that appeared in The Sporting News in its April 30, 2001 edition. Paul Attner, a writer for the magazine, was given access to the Packers' draft room and wrote a first-hand account. It was emailed to me by one of our readers, Kevin Minshell, after I had recently written a column about how the 2001 draft was still haunting the Packers, more so than any other. What's interesting in Attner's account is that no mention is made of defensive tackle Marcus Stroud, who would have been an ideal pick there, and that the Packers' top two targets in the first round, Reynolds and Koren Robinson, both have been busts to this point.

Here's what Attner wrote:

"Wolf and Sherman were pretty confident that their first-round target - pass-rushing end Jamal Reynolds of Florida State - would still be around when they picked 10th in the first round. But that meant they needed to fix their other major need, receiver, in the second. And they were convinced that Robert Ferguson of Texas A&M would be gone by their present turn in that round. A trade with (Bill) Walsh would move them up six spots in the second, from 16 to 10, and from 18 to 9 in the third, and add a high fourth, where they currently had no choice. It meant giving up one of their three third-round picks in what became a five-for-three transaction. But Wolf knew Sherman, who was having trouble sleeping, would be buoyed by the positives of the deal.

"So four phone calls later, Walsh and Wolf agreed to agree. 'This could do it,' Sherman said to Wolf. Later that night at dinner, Wolf reviewed the 88th trade of his 10 years in Green Bay. 'In order for this to work, we've got to have both Reynolds and Ferguson,' he said. 'Otherwise, this might become the dumbest trade of my career. I could look like an idiot.'

"That would be a helluva way to go into retirement.

"In March, the Packers sent reserve quarterback Matt Hasselbeck to Seattle for an exchange of first-round choices and one of the Seahawks' third picks. The deal moved the Packers into the 10th spot of the opening round, assuring them of landing an impact player, a key aim of their draft strategy. The Seahawks dealt exclusively with Sherman, who would then talk to Wolf. The two men chuckled about how quickly things were changing.

"Now the 49ers deal has bolstered their spirits, and Wolf enters Saturday in a chipper mood. He had slept well the night before, and walked for an hour earlier in the morning. The draft room itself seems normal; it is filled with scouts, coaches, team executives and some members of the club's Executive Committee. Wolf thrives best in a casual atmosphere, with people moving in and out of the room, where he can joke and keep up a constant banter.

"As their first selection draws near, the room becomes quiet. The previous day, Wolf and Sherman had discussed strategy for three hours. Sherman had brought a laminated sheet, filled with 13 possible scenarios the Packers could face when their pick arrived. He had already checked off who he would select in each case. Now he wanted Wolfs thinking. They agreed every time. They expected either Reynolds or receiver Koren Robinson to be available. If both were there, they would go with Reynolds because they needed defensive linemen. If neither was around, they would go with defensive end Andre Carter, then linebacker Dan Morgan. No arguments allowed in Wolf's draft room, not when all the decisionmaking is already final.

"'Anyone nervous?' Wolf says after the fifth pick. 'I'm getting nervous. Isn't this exciting?' Gradually, a knot is growing in his stomach, just as it had done in 38 previous years. The knot increases when the 49ers trade with Seattle to get the draft's seventh pick. San Francisco needs a defensive lineman; maybe that means Reynolds. Instead, the 49ers go with Carter. When the Bears choose receiver David Terrell at eight, Wolf is ecstatic. 'We got one,' he says. Reynolds and Robinson are still on the board.

"The Seahawks, picking next, select Robinson. The Packers already are calling Reynolds. 'We are considering taking you as our first pick; do you think it is a good one?' Sherman says to him. Reynolds tells him yes. 'I thought so,' says Sherman. Laughter fills the draft room.

"Wolf jokingly asks Reggie McKenzie, his director of pro personnel, if Reynolds has two arms and two legs. McKenzie, straight-faced, assures him he does. He soon tells scouting coordinator Danny Mock to give Reynolds' name to the Packers' draft liaison in New York.

"When (Paul) Tagliabue makes the announcement, everyone in the room breaks into sustained applause. Wolf smiles.

"Before the second-round pick, Edie sits with him in the draft room. They usually eat dinner together at the end of the draft, as they will do this year, but she double dips with a first-day session. It is a family affair; son Eliot, a college freshman and aspiring general manager, places names on the team-by-team draft board. Edie brings him good luck. Ferguson is still available when the Packers' turn comes. Sherman and Wolf nod at each other. Wolf isn't an idiot after all.

"Sherman, just two years removed from being an assistant coach, has spent the past seven weeks getting a crash course in drafting from Wolf. Sherman would make notes and then enter them in a journal. 'Wolfisms,' he calls them. 'What better resource can I ask for than to have this man?' he says. 'He has developed a Packer Way. We grind out the draft, evaluating and then reevaluating. And he involves everyone, coaches and scouts. We'd like to keep the model going.' Wolf will be a consultant for three years; Sherman says he will call on him often.

"'It is amazing when it works, isn't it?' says Wolf after the first day. He's convinced Reynolds will be an immediate starter; Ferguson also should be one within a season. They later grab two project-type players in the third round, cornerback Bhawoh Jue and linebacker Torrance Marshall, then begin the second day by selecting guard Bill Ferrario of Wisconsin in the fourth. Wolf spends Sunday morning fretting that he should have chosen Ferrario in the third, so he is relieved that he is still available. To take his mind off things, he sits in his office and watches a car race.

"At 2:12 p.m. Central time, the Packers' last selection of the draft, in the sixth round, is announced. It is a classic scouting pick-a sleeper, David Martin of Tennessee, a wide receiver Wolf believes can make it as a right end. 'He's one of those players you want because you want to show you can project someone's talent that others might miss,' says Wolf. Before the announcement is made in New York, the Packers' draft room fills in anticipation of the moment. Sustained cheers greet the choice of Martin, the final pick of Wolf's decade in Green Bay. The previous day, all the scouts and personnel staff had posed for group and individual pictures with him. Now someone yells, 'Speech, speech.'"
Let's never speak of Jamal Reynolds again, shall we. :?
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Old 11-16-2006, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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all right guys, this line, is the line that the name jamal Reynolds will never cross in this disscusion ever.
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Old 11-16-2006, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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J***l R******s
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I was listening to the KFAN minnesota sports radio, and they kept talking about how the Vikes have put so much money into their offensive line. I mean millions and millions and we just ravaged them. We have 2 rookie starters...now 3 rookie starters...and we shut out what could be one of the best D-Lines in the nfl. That just really stood out to me. McCarthy has these guys playing well. Childress is already losing the confidence of his team. Let's hope McCarty's Pack keeps it up.

P.S. Who cares about Jamal Reynolds.....old news brah!!
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PacMan
I was listening to the KFAN minnesota sports radio, and they kept talking about how the Vikes have put so much money into their offensive line. I mean millions and millions and we just ravaged them. We have 2 rookie starters...now 3 rookie starters...and we shut out what could be one of the best D-Lines in the nfl. That just really stood out to me. McCarthy has these guys playing well. Childress is already losing the confidence of his team. Let's hope McCarty's Pack keeps it up.

P.S. Who cares about J**** R******s.....old news brah!!
fix it for ya, his name is band from this disscussion
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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The post wasn't about JR, it was about the entire draft
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PacMan
I was listening to the KFAN minnesota sports radio, and they kept talking about how the Vikes have put so much money into their offensive line. I mean millions and millions and we just ravaged them. We have 2 rookie starters...now 3 rookie starters...and we shut out what could be one of the best D-Lines in the nfl. That just really stood out to me. McCarthy has these guys playing well. Childress is already losing the confidence of his team. Let's hope McCarty's Pack keeps it up.

P.S. Who cares about Jamal Reynolds.....old news brah!!
the pack didn't exactly shut down the queens d line, i mean maybe in pass portection, but the run game did horrible, so in a sense it wasn't that good of showing for our offensive line IMO.
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PacMan
I was listening to the KFAN minnesota sports radio, and they kept talking about how the Vikes have put so much money into their offensive line. I mean millions and millions and we just ravaged them. We have 2 rookie starters...now 3 rookie starters...and we shut out what could be one of the best D-Lines in the nfl. That just really stood out to me. McCarthy has these guys playing well. Childress is already losing the confidence of his team. Let's hope McCarty's Pack keeps it up.

P.S. Who cares about J R.....old news brah!!
Agreed about their O-line. I love that they have such a huge amount tied up on the line. To keep the Williams and the rest of the Minnetonka defense from getting a sack was a great performance in pass protection. When this line matures a bit, then you'll start to see them be able to get the run blocking done as well. Then again, maybe Minnesota game planned to go after the run and that is why they got smoked in the air.

Our O-line coaches have done a great job, the rooks have been competing at a high level, and the best thing is that they've kept Favre from getting too much. If he's not going to be hit all that much, and this young team is just going to get better, maybe he'll decide to come back next year.
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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it feels so good to be back..... I can't wait for the game this week, its going to be very interesting to see how it plays out. Patriots have two straight loses and it looks like they may be losing their patriot magic, but then again its Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. The Packers seem to be almost firing on all cylinders and I know they can win, but I can't imagine the Patriots losing three in a row. Where have all the MM and TT haters gone?
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Old 11-16-2006, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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it feels so good to be back..... I can't wait for the game this week, its going to be very interesting to see how it plays out. Patriots have two straight loses and it looks like they may be losing their patriot magic, but then again its Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. The Packers seem to be almost firing on all cylinders and I know they can win, but I can't imagine the Patriots losing three in a row. Where have all the MM and TT haters gone?
I always liked Ted Thompson although I did have my doubts about Mike McCarthy. I wasn't completely opposed to making him head coach, but it didn't make sense at the time. He was the offensive coordinators of the worst offence in the league.
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