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Old 02-17-2008, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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who will be a FA for us? I know Gibril, Kavika, and Torbor. Anyone else? Also, what are the chances we get a guy like Asante Samuel or Lance Briggs?
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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who will be a FA for us? I know Gibril, Kavika, and Torbor. Anyone else? Also, what are the chances we get a guy like Asante Samuel or Lance Briggs?
Tynes was but got signed. Those are pretty much the bigger name guys. I would say chances are fairly slim we get Briggs or Samuels. We can always draft out own LB, or play one that we drafted and develop him. With respect to CB, we probably will give Webster a good look now because he has progressed. To sign Samuel would stunt someones progress and playing time. So i highly doubt we sign any of those guys.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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i would rather not sign a big FA name like samuel or briggs. i want to do what we did last off season which is that we sign some good, decent players- to fit a certain role like mitchell and build again through the draft.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Berrian maybe? He is the deep threat who burns players like its nothing, and according to Bearsfan51 he's also a reliable inside reciever.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Berrian maybe? He is the deep threat who burns players like its nothing, and according to Bearsfan51 he's also a reliable inside reciever.
Whats Bearsfan didn't tell you was that he also lead the league in drops. I like Berrian but with Toomer coming back and Smith stepping up we just don't have a big need at WR anymore. Plus, like all FA, he will get more money then he deserves. Chicago was talking about franchising him at one point so I would expect him to get around 30 mil on the open market.

I think we should go a similar route to last year. Focus on the low risk, undervalued players who fit our criteria. Reese likes guys who are young, athletic, and very reliable in terms of being on the field (not injury prone). Some guys who I see as possible fits:

- LB Demmorio Williams
- LB Landon Johnson
- DT Corey Williams
- FS Ken Hamlin (if Gibril doesn't come back)
- CB Drayton Florence (depending on Madison/Mc1/4s)
- S Eric Coleman
- S Eugene Wilson
- S Keith Davis
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Are Demmorio Williams or Landon Johnson a good Weakside LB fit for us?
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Whats Bearsfan didn't tell you was that he also lead the league in drops.
I didn't tell him that because it isn't true. I did mention that Berrian has had some consistancy issues, but he didn't lead the league. Unless you were speaking in hyperbolies, in which case I would recommend not attatching my name to it.

T.O. and Steve Smith also drop a fair amount of catches. I would still take either on my team.

Come to think of it Plax drops a lot of balls too...
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Are Demmorio Williams or Landon Johnson a good Weakside LB fit for us?
Either one would fit very well on our weakside. Johnson has pretty good size for a WILL and that was the position he played for his first 2-3 years with the Bengals. He is an athletic player who was their leading tackler the past 3 years. This past year due to injuries on their D he moved inside to MLB and played pretty well. Overall he is a solid athlete whose situation reminds me a lot of Kawika Mitchell's last year in the sense that he has put up over 100 tackles on a bad defense for a few years and the main knock against him is he doesn't make that many big plays. That was the exact scouting report Mitchell had when we signed him. Style wise he is very different from Mitchell in that he isn't very strong or as physical at the POA, but he is very athletic and does a good job going sideline to sideline.

Demmorio Williams is one of the most athletic WLB's in the whole league. He is very good in coverage, makes big hits, and makes big plays. His problem is that he is very undersized (5'11 220).

My first choice would probably be to resign Kawika Mitchell and get Wilkinson into the lineup at WLB. Not only will there be no learning curve for a new player but Mitchell showed improvement over the season so there is a chance that we have not seen his best yet. Also signing one of these guys would somewhat block Wilkinson. GW can play the SAM but then all 3 of our LBs would be under 240 lbs. Mitchell is 28 and limited athletically so if he over prices himself in the market we may need to let him go.
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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I didn't tell him that because it isn't true. I did mention that Berrian has had some consistancy issues, but he didn't lead the league. Unless you were speaking in hyperbolies, in which case I would recommend not attatching my name to it.

T.O. and Steve Smith also drop a fair amount of catches. I would still take either on my team.

Come to think of it Plax drops a lot of balls too...
You are 100% right that is my bad. Devery Henderson is the FA WR who lead the league in drops, not BB.
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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I didn't tell him that because it isn't true. I did mention that Berrian has had some consistancy issues, but he didn't lead the league. Unless you were speaking in hyperbolies, in which case I would recommend not attatching my name to it.

T.O. and Steve Smith also drop a fair amount of catches. I would still take either on my team.

Come to think of it Plax drops a lot of balls too...
Our whole wrs corps drops balls! We had this issue plague us for a while now.
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Our whole wrs corps drops balls! We had this issue plague us for a while now.
So true. Ironically Jacobs lead our team in drops (basically in 1 game) with Toomer 2nd. Meanwhile in the playoffs our WR corps was lights out with the exception of the drop Toomer had in GB and Smith in the SB.
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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I am doing a FA series at Giants 101-

I will post the articles here
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Here is Hamlin's

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This is the start of a 10 part series I hope to complete by the start of free agency. I have ranked my top 10 free agents into a list that was put together by a combination of a quality of the player, their likely demand in money, and the Giants need for that position. These are not exactly the top 10 players on the market, but the ones that make the most sense in an economic sense, a la getting the bang for the buck. Kawika Mitchell has to be regarded as one of, if not THE top free agent signing in 2007 because of how cheaply he was bought for and how much of an impact he had on the Giants defense. For example, Asante Samuel will not be found on my list because he is going to demand a salary that will mark his cap number in the $10 million range on an annual basis. I want nothing to do with a contract such as that, especially after watching what our CBs did down the stretch who between them don't even take that much cap space. So with all of that said, here is the free agency profile of my #10 player-

Ken Hamlin - S - Cowboys

6'2 - 205 pounds - 27 years old

College - Arkansas (Selected by Seahawks in 2003 - 2nd round - #42 overall)

Why the Giants should sign him

Gibril Wilson has been forced to play next to a rotating circle of sub-par safeties ever since taking the field his rookie season in 2004. He shows glimpses of a top 5 safety at times but will flat out disappear for weeks at time, looking very ordinary. From what I have heard from someone within the organization on top of what I see with my own eyes on gamedays, Wilson is a stud. However his play is brought down by the guy next to him which most recently was James Butler who, no disrespect intended, is suited to be a backup. That is where I bring in Hamlin, a versatile safety that the Giants have seen plenty of the past few seasons as a part of the Seahawks and Cowboys. He, like Wilson, can effectively play both safety spots which is huge in the scheme that has been set in place by Spags. He comes up into the box and lays the wood on ball carriers while making his presence known across the middle to WRs that dare to cross his path. This past season with the Cowboys he turned in his top performance with 5 INTs and a whopping 15 pass breakups. In both Seattle and Dallas, Hamlin has been regarded as a smart "Quarterback of the defense" type leader that is rarely caught out of position. You put Hamlin and Wilson next to each other for 16 games and this pass defense is going to be incredibly difficult to penetrate.

Why the Giants should NOT sign him

Hamlin and his representatives did not receive the offer they thought they would in free agency last year. He settled for a one year showcase deal with the hope of putting up the kind of performance he did and cashing in this offseason. Well, half of that battle has been fought and won while the second portion is on it's way. Hamlin is likely to command top tier money in terms of safeties and with the re-signing of Wilson to likely cost in the $4-5 million per year range for the Giants, I'm not sure Reese should shell out even more than that for the guy that plays next to him. I would think the only reason the Giants would stay away from Hamlin is strictly financial.

What would David do?

If you can recall to this time last year, Hamlin was one of two free agents I wanted the Giants to aggressively pursue. He had yet to peak, we needed an upgrade at safety, and his price was relatively tolerable. However, it is amazing what one season can do because Hamlin is now lined up for a major payday and has bumped him down from the top of the list to the bottom. I love Hamlin as a player as he is exactly what this defense needs from both a mental and physical standpoint. Our pass defense up the middle has been atrocious the past couple of seasons and James Butler's inability to help the CBs downfield led to some big plays by the opposing offenses we faced from day one. However the NFL is not set up to hide big financial mistakes unlike baseball because of the salary cap, thus when a player is given a $5 million cap number for 4-5 years, you have to be sure he will produce at a high level. I would throw an offer at his camp and see what they think but assuming Wilson is brought back, I would not be willing th break the bank for Hamlin despite my high opinion of him. I think the opportunity to have a Wilson/Hamlin safety duo for season after season passed us by last year.

Offer: 5 years - $25 million - $11 million in guaranteed money (Take it or leave it)

-Syvertsen
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Trufant .

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Marcus Trufant

5'11 - 200 pounds - 27 years old

Selected by Seahawks in 2003 (#11 overall)

Why the Giants should sign him

There could certainly be an argument made that Marcus Trufant is the top CB in this year's free agency class. If you want a young CB that has been consistently productive from day one and has shutdown CB written all over him, Trufant is your guy. He has hovered around 15 pass deflections per season all 5 years of his career, has brought down 16 INTs, and has brought a physical style to the run defense game. He will be coveted by teams that run a man coverage scheme (like us) because he can turn and run with anybody. He recorded a 4.38 40 time at his combine but I actually think that doesn't do his speed justice. The Giants need somebody that can cover downfield when up against the true #1 WRs like Owens, Moss, and Roy Williams whom all burnt us this past season. Aaron Ross has loads of potential but I don't see him ever being a true #1 lockdown guy while Trufant has been steadily improving his game to the point of being regarded a top tier CB in this league. You throw this guy on the field with our pass rush, and opposing play callers are going to never want to throw the ball.

Why the Giants should NOT sign him

Like Hamlin, there is a financial issue here. Nate Clements was given a (backloaded) 8 year-$80 million contract last year and there have been whispers around the league Trufant's camp is looking for something similar. I doubt he'll get that kind of money but if that's what it will take, it should be an easy decision for Reese. I think the world of Trufant as a player but I've seen it too many times. A player is signed to an enormous contract that gets the organization thinking of dominance for years, but to see that player severely injure a knee or a foot, handicapping offseason after offseason for far too long. It's tempting want to win the offseason headlines via free agency but tell me, what has that done for the Redskins lately? Spags did an incredible job with the CBs he had in 2007, maybe the upgrade that is needed shouldn't have to be so large. Like Belichick's, his scheme seems to be pretty CB friendly and if you want to get economic, the biggest contract on the team should not belong to a position that does not have to be a major strength on paper.

What would David do?

I would love to have a shutdown CB here. That would likely bring an end to the Giants careers of Sam Madison and RW McQuarters and an end to our free agency spending though. Having Trufant locking down the opposing #1 WR by himself would allow Spags to shade safety help over Ross to hinder his vulnerability to the deep ball and help him ease into the rigors of being an NFL CB. More often than not the Giants defense struggled against the top WRs more than they should have (Owens, Moss, Williams) because Madison is simply not a #1 CB. Trufant is exactly what we want in free agency when you look at the youth, speed, and health he possesses however the price tag could escalate into a level that does not make sense. Free agency is always a gamble, but a signing like this would cause you to cross your fingers so tightly for so long that a couple of dislocations would be inevitable. Cornerbacks are overpriced in this league and I'm not so sure I want to be one of the reasons that is the case.

Offer - 6 years - $48 million - $18 million in guaranteed money (Take it or leave it)

#9 - Marcus Trufant - CB - Seahawks

#10 - Ken Hamlin - S - Cowboys

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Old 02-17-2008, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Bentley .

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Kevin Bentley - LB

6'0 - 230 - 28 years old

Selected by Browns in 2002 draft in 4th round (#101 overall)

Why the Giants should sign him

Bentley is not a household name by any means and would have to fight for playing time here in New York. If we are ready to give the starting weakside LB job to Gerris Wilkinson in 2008, a veteran backup will be needed. However if Wilkinson is not ready to take over, Bentley has proven to be a reliable, steady player that is suited to hinder our weaknesses in coverage at that intermediate level. He is very fast, instinctive, and difficult for linemen to get their hands on. He has played in a few different schemes and always seems to adjust to whatever he needs to in order to produce. He has always been a special teams stud and if opt to not re-sign Reggie Torbor, an ace like him will be needed. Perhaps the most attractive aspect about Bentley is the price tag which will likely demand and if we learned one thing about Jerry Reese last year, it's his economic based mentality when it comes to free agency. Bentley will be a smart financial signing by someone this offseason.

Why the Giants should NOT sign him

Bringing in free agent linebackers, whether it's a $40 million deal or a $1 million deal, makes me a bit nervous. Linebacker is a position where the shelf-life is unreliable because of the physical rigors they go through year after year. In terms of upgrades at the position, I am usually inclined to look towards the draft rather than free agency here. In addition, Bentley has been given opportunities to wins starting jobs but has failed to hold onto a spot for multiple seasons. If the Giants are serious about upgrading their defense to the point of consistently playing at a dominant level, Bentley is not exactly a guy you want to bring in to start. A player with similar physical tools to Bentley can be had in the draft at a cheaper price.

What would David do?

Bentley is a guy I have been looking to for the Giants to sign over the past few years. Before he signed a one deal with Seattle in 2005, I wanted Accorsi to go after. him. He then was signed to a 2 year deal with Seattle because of how reliable he was off the bench and on special teams, thus the Giants never really had an opportunity to get him. I would try hard to get this guy in for a visit to let him know a starting job on the weak side will be there for the taking by the player that steps it up in training camp/preseason. He might even end up being a better backup MLB than Chase Blackburn, improving his chances of playing time should he not win a starting job. Steve Spagnuolo has done an outstanding job with LBs that are smart and versatile, Bentley's two most raved about traits by past coaches in both Cleveland and Seattle. He could come here, win a job, and be a valuable asset to a championship caliber defense. I'm not sure there are many teams around the league that can offer that to him. It's a win-win situation because he gets what he wants and we get an athletic LB that will come cheaply and could surprise int he same fashion Kawika Mitchell did last season.

Offer: 2 years - $1.5 million - $800,000 in guaranteed money

#8 - Kevin Bentley - OLB

#9 - Marcus Trufant - CB

#10 - Ken Hamlin - S

-Syvertsen
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Quick thought. OJ Atogwe. What tender did he get and if it's like a 2nd or 3rd rounder, i'd think about signing him to an offer sheet. Safety, as we all know, is a need of ours anyway and Atogwe had a very nice year for St. Louis.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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Quick thought. OJ Atogwe. What tender did he get and if it's like a 2nd or 3rd rounder, i'd think about signing him to an offer sheet. Safety, as we all know, is a need of ours anyway and Atogwe had a very nice year for St. Louis.
I was not impressed by him this year...his INT numbers are going to cause some to think he is the real deal but he is not any better then Gibril. I don't think his tender has been set yet, it will likely be a 2nd rounder.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Thats great stuff No. 10.

If I'm the Giants I don't want to spend big money on anyone really. The prices of some of these guys like Hamlin and Trufant would have to come down before I even considered them. I like both guys very much for this team but wouldn't mortgage the future and massacre the salary cap at positions where we have guys that are capable and we just won the Super Bowl with.

I say we focus on building through the draft again and what some others have said, add key FA to fill roles like Kawika did. I would like kawika back at a reasonable price but i think its time to say goodbye to Torbor who may get more $ cuz he did have significant playing time this season. It's time to let Wilkinson play and someone said something about all our LB's being under 240 but that doesn't matter at all, if they can play they play and most teams dont have huge backers any more. Wilk, Pierce and Kawika as our starters is fine by me as we enter next season. I know Number 10 u seemed pretty sure Kiwi is moving back to DE which i think is the right move too so adding a LB in FA or in the draft for depth purposes is all we need to do.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Good news on the FA front. The Bengals franchised Stacy Andrews which could potentially leave Madieu Williams unprotected.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Forgot the link

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6645
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Eugene Wilson

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Eugene Wilson - S

5'10 - 195 pounds - 27 years old

Selected by Patriots in 2nd round (#36 overall)

Why the Giants should sign him

The Giants have gone through experiment after experiment at the safety position for far too many seasons. There is a stud currently playing one of the two spots, one that I hope and think the Giants will bring back in Gibril Wilson. However the spot next to his has been a revolving door with the likes of James Butler, Will Demps, Brent Alexander, and Shaun Williams all disappointing. They all brought something to the run defense game but when it came to defending the pass, none of those guys were effective. Eugene Wilson was brought to New England in 2003 and quickly won a starting job on one of the best defenses in the NFL during the middle of the Patriots' dynasty. He is a versatile defensive back that has seen plenty of time at both safety and cornerback. His coverage ability is something you want in your defensive backfield as he displays tremendous instincts and a quick burst to the ball. We have not had a cover guy back there next to Gibril and I think that's what has been keeping him from being considered a top tier safety in this league. He won't "wow" you with his physical package but he is a guy that gets the job done when called upon.

Why the Giants should NOT sign him

After being the starting safety his first three seasons in New England, Wilson has since struggled to hold onto anything. He went from promising young player to a guy with the label of "system player" that Bill Belichick has become famous for. The Pats drafted a safety in the first round last year and he despite being a bit banged up in 2007, Wilson appeared to slip down the depth chart. He is not exactly the playmaker some want back there. He is a CB playing safety in the eyes of some, meaning he won't come up into the box and support the run the way a safety should in this scheme. In addition, we all saw how much a lack of speed can hurt us back there this past season and Wilson is not a burner. He has the burst to close but he won't win many races downfield with the speedy receivers in this league. Was he a short term wonder that has been figured out by opposing offensive coaches? That is the concern that will cause decision makers to hesitate on his services.

What would David do?

How do I have Wilson rated higher than Ken Hamlin on my free agency board? He is simply a smarter financial decision for the team. I don't think we need a superstar next to Gibril to elevate the level of play in our secondary. What we do need is an instinctive cover man that has the athleticism to keep up with WRs so that Gibril can do his thing all over the field. He is a centerfielder type that we can throw deep, something I have wanted for far too long. Bringing in Wilson will allow the coaching staff to develop Michael Johnson and possibly a new body we bring in via the draft in the middle rounds. Like I said last week, spending big money on two safeties just isn't smart. Worst case scenario would be using Wilson as a backup to all DB positions, something that every team seems to be looking for with all of these wide open offenses popping up left and right. He won't cost much and brings a lot to the table, sounds like a Reese guy to me.

Offer: 3 years - $4.5 million - $2 million guaranteed
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Old 02-18-2008, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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I'm liking it alot Number 10(hope we get trufant). + rep
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Lito Sheppard is requesting a trade. Do we go after him? he's 26 or 27, and has 7 years in the league.
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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another team was talking about him, here's the link:
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...299#post903299
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Lito Sheppard is requesting a trade. Do we go after him? he's 26 or 27, and has 7 years in the league.
i would def go after sheppard if the price was right. he is a great cb, eagles system, so he could def fit in the scheme. i would give up a 2nd rounder for the guy
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