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Old 02-21-2008, 10:48 PM    (permalink
49ersfan_87
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Don't most rookies sign six year deals these days? Willis shouldn't be ridiculously costed for a long time...
I just look ahead to the future a lot, lol.

When do most 1st round picks begin to renegotiate anyways? At least into 6 year deals. I assume 3 or 4 years in, correct?
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Well theoretically after six years...
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
I just look ahead to the future a lot, lol.

When do most 1st round picks begin to renegotiate anyways? At least into 6 year deals. I assume 3 or 4 years in, correct?
I'd like to say the off-season before the 4th season in.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by papa burgundy View Post
Yeah Brandon Moore's 2 missed tackles in the pre-season completely overshadowed his dominance in the second half of the season before... the only thing benching him showed was Nolans incompetence in dealing with players. He replaced him with Derek "more missed tackles in actual games than I could shake a stick at" Smith. Nolan is an idiot and will always be a failure.. I can't wait for next off-season when we fire that moron and hire Rob Chudzinski who made the Browns bottom 5 offense into a top 10 offense in one year flat.. unlike Garrett and McDaniels who were handed the keys to top 10 offenses and became candidates off of that. And I've been on the Chudzinski for head coach trip since mid season so anyone who wants to jump on can suck it theres only room for me on this bandwagon.
He had more chances to prove his starting position in the preseason an he failed. He couldn't tackle in the 3-4. Last season during the second half, we played more of a 4-3, and he thrived because he didn't have to always tackle in open space. When in the 3-4, it was the opposite, and he couldn't tackle very well. Derek Smith was bad tackling this season, sure. But at least he didn't blow assignments. As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for him, we may not won the game against the Arizona Cardinals when we visited them.
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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willis and briggs...damn that would be tough. idk about a good fit for their defense but that would be a fast, attacking combo
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Every team "tampers" with players and whatnot. There will be an unlimited amount of tampering at the NFL Combine. There's tampering every year from every team so who cares??? No one.

Moving on.....as a 49ers fan, I dont want Briggs. I rather overpay Samuel but that's just me. If we were to go back to the 4-3, then Briggs would make sense with Moore opposite him and Willis in the middle.

DL wise, I would sign DE Justin Smith and move Lawson to DE after he bulks up to at least 255. Jason Taylor is 255 and if Lawson was to have half as good career as Taylor, I would be a happy camper.

Sopoaga and Franklin can start at DT. Not great but the rest make up for it.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DaBear89 View Post
not to mention had SF 1st. question, can goodell strip SF of it's 1st, thus taking it away from the Pats? true justice hehehe
If Goodell doesn't take away the 49ers 1st from the pats, there is no way the 49ers lose their pick.

Still I only am in favor of signing briggs if we move back to the 4-3.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:40 AM    (permalink
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He had more chances to prove his starting position in the preseason an he failed. He couldn't tackle in the 3-4. Last season during the second half, we played more of a 4-3, and he thrived because he didn't have to always tackle in open space. When in the 3-4, it was the opposite, and he couldn't tackle very well. Derek Smith was bad tackling this season, sure. But at least he didn't blow assignments. As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for him, we may not won the game against the Arizona Cardinals when we visited them.
WHAT!? ARE YOU ******* ******** ME? IF IT WASNT FOR HIM WE WOULDNT HAVE WON THE CARDINALS GAME? Jesus Christ you've been sucking on Nolans balls far too long. Did you actually see that play where he supposedly "won us the game" on? He dropped back 2 feet.. and then Ronald Fields sacked Warner and Banta-Cain recovered. He didn't make any sort of incredible read or use his incredible speed to clog a throwing lane. He stepped back 2 ******* feet. He did absolutely nothing note worthy that game or this season or last season or even the season before that and before that. I'd love for anyone to ever name me a play he made. Not a play that magically came to him like the Philly pick 6 years ago, but an actual TFL or FF or Sack or PD or anything where HE made the play. You can't.. he's awful he shouldn't have been starting period.

And as for Brandon Moore.. he couldn't tackle in the 3-4? That's honestly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. He had 2 friggin games in the pre-season and 2 friggin missed tackles and Nolan benched him. That's the end of it.. there was no "he's bad in the 3-4" because in 2005 we played in a **** Nolan version of the 3-4 then too and he played pretty god damn well in that.. so don't give me this **** that he's not good in the 3-4. He's perfect for the 3-4 actually... specifically for the Ted position. He's a big physical beast who bulldozes players and can rush the passer. The only thing he really sucks at is dropping back in coverage and the Ted barely even friggin does that. And.. as a Ted he shouldn't even have to tackle in the open space that much.. even though you completly overblew that. Stop making excuses for Nolan.. the only reason Nolan benched him was because he plays favorites with suck ups and brown nosers. How else do you explain Moore being the best linebacker we had the 2 years before in the 3-4 AND 4-3 then falling all the way to 3rd on the depth chart. You can't.. Nolan is a buffoon and will be fired as soon as he goes 4-12 in 08 and thus the Chudzinski era will begin in 09 and maybe we'll actually use our good players instead of the "characters" pussies.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:49 AM    (permalink
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ok well just give us your 1st round pick last year and we will call it even :D
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
Every team "tampers" with players and whatnot. There will be an unlimited amount of tampering at the NFL Combine. There's tampering every year from every team so who cares??? No one.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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If Goodell doesn't take away the 49ers 1st from the pats, there is no way the 49ers lose their pick.
Why does anyone assume they lose their first? If the Pats missed the playoffs, they would have lost their second and third... last time I checked... the 49ers missed the playoffs...
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I readily admit though, my knowledge of Staley comes mostly from college tape and the Giants/49ers game. Ive seen him other times too, but i haven't focused on him as much as I should have.
Then why offer up criticism as if you've watched every game he started in?

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Why does anyone assume they lose their first? If the Pats missed the playoffs, they would have lost their second and third... last time I checked... the 49ers missed the playoffs...
Most likely because that is all people seem to think matters.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by papa burgundy View Post
WHAT!? ARE YOU ******* ******** ME? IF IT WASNT FOR HIM WE WOULDNT HAVE WON THE CARDINALS GAME? Jesus Christ you've been sucking on Nolans balls far too long. Did you actually see that play where he supposedly "won us the game" on? He dropped back 2 feet.. and then Ronald Fields sacked Warner and Banta-Cain recovered. He didn't make any sort of incredible read or use his incredible speed to clog a throwing lane. He stepped back 2 ******* feet. He did absolutely nothing note worthy that game or this season or last season or even the season before that and before that. I'd love for anyone to ever name me a play he made. Not a play that magically came to him like the Philly pick 6 years ago, but an actual TFL or FF or Sack or PD or anything where HE made the play. You can't.. he's awful he shouldn't have been starting period.

And as for Brandon Moore.. he couldn't tackle in the 3-4? That's honestly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. He had 2 friggin games in the pre-season and 2 friggin missed tackles and Nolan benched him. That's the end of it.. there was no "he's bad in the 3-4" because in 2005 we played in a **** Nolan version of the 3-4 then too and he played pretty god damn well in that.. so don't give me this **** that he's not good in the 3-4. He's perfect for the 3-4 actually... specifically for the Ted position. He's a big physical beast who bulldozes players and can rush the passer. The only thing he really sucks at is dropping back in coverage and the Ted barely even friggin does that. And.. as a Ted he shouldn't even have to tackle in the open space that much.. even though you completly overblew that. Stop making excuses for Nolan.. the only reason Nolan benched him was because he plays favorites with suck ups and brown nosers. How else do you explain Moore being the best linebacker we had the 2 years before in the 3-4 AND 4-3 then falling all the way to 3rd on the depth chart. You can't.. Nolan is a buffoon and will be fired as soon as he goes 4-12 in 08 and thus the Chudzinski era will begin in 09 and maybe we'll actually use our good players instead of the "characters" pussies.
Resorting to insults? How mature of you. Here's what happened in the game since you weren't paying attention:

The Cardinals were backed up deep in their own territory. The Cardinals wanted to throw from their end zone. Of course, Kurt Warner wanted to get rid of the ball quickly in that situation.

Lined up on the right side of the Cardinals' formation was tight end Leonard Pope and receiver Anquan Boldin. Smith was lined up over Pope. At the snap, Smith recognized what the Cardinals wanted to do. Within the legal 5-yard zone, Smith expertly re-routed Pope into Boldin's path.

Warner took a three-step drop and when he saw what Smith had done to disrupt the routes of Pope and Boldin, he had no other choice but to hold the ball.

That hesitation allowed defensive end Ronald Fields enough time to sack Warner, causing a fumble in the end zone that Tully Banta-Cain recovered. Because of Smith's play, the 49ers scored the winning points to snap an eight-game losing streak.

And yes, as for Brandon Moore he couldn't tackle in the 3-4. I don't know how much clearer I can explain it to you. Whether you choose to accept it is simply your choice. It's not a coincidence that when we went to more of a 4-3 during the second half of the season due to injuries and such, he started to shine. Because he didn't have to do as much chasing down of the ball carrier due to there being more bodies upfront to disrupt the play of the running back. Once the runningback got passed the front defensive line, it was very difficult for him to execute. Look at the games. It's not hard to figure out. He didn't even play well when given the chance. He was constantly out of position, and still missing tackles. Even in the 4-3. Whatever happened during the offseason of last year clearly diminished his play. He's simply one of those players that's hot and cold, and isn't worth a starting spot. Derek Smith at least stuck to his assignments instead of making a huge play every once in a while that's flashy, and making huge mistakes more often than not, such as missed tackle or a stupid penalty.

And your wishful thinking of the hiring of Chudzinski is merely that. Perhaps you should use a logical course of reasoning as to why we're going to hire this specific person in your opinion.

Seriously though, people like you are the worst kind of posters. Resorting to insults to back up your claims and taking issue with the person instead of the comment, like you're getting desperate to prove your point. Very obnoxious.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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You know all those times that free agents sign on the first day of free agency with someone else?

It's tampering, every time. The two sides were in contract negotiations long before the free agent flies into town.

The NFL barely enforces the rule.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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The NFL barely enforced the rule.
I think i fixed. it.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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3-4, 4-3, I don't care. Briggs is a helluva linebacker and you can't have enough play makers on defense.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Resorting to insults? How mature of you. Here's what happened in the game since you weren't paying attention:

The Cardinals were backed up deep in their own territory. The Cardinals wanted to throw from their end zone. Of course, Kurt Warner wanted to get rid of the ball quickly in that situation.

Lined up on the right side of the Cardinals' formation was tight end Leonard Pope and receiver Anquan Boldin. Smith was lined up over Pope. At the snap, Smith recognized what the Cardinals wanted to do. Within the legal 5-yard zone, Smith expertly re-routed Pope into Boldin's path.

Warner took a three-step drop and when he saw what Smith had done to disrupt the routes of Pope and Boldin, he had no other choice but to hold the ball.

That hesitation allowed defensive end Ronald Fields enough time to sack Warner, causing a fumble in the end zone that Tully Banta-Cain recovered. Because of Smith's play, the 49ers scored the winning points to snap an eight-game losing streak.

And yes, as for Brandon Moore he couldn't tackle in the 3-4. I don't know how much clearer I can explain it to you. Whether you choose to accept it is simply your choice. It's not a coincidence that when we went to more of a 4-3 during the second half of the season due to injuries and such, he started to shine. Because he didn't have to do as much chasing down of the ball carrier due to there being more bodies upfront to disrupt the play of the running back. Once the runningback got passed the front defensive line, it was very difficult for him to execute. Look at the games. It's not hard to figure out. He didn't even play well when given the chance. He was constantly out of position, and still missing tackles. Even in the 4-3. Whatever happened during the offseason of last year clearly diminished his play. He's simply one of those players that's hot and cold, and isn't worth a starting spot. Derek Smith at least stuck to his assignments instead of making a huge play every once in a while that's flashy, and making huge mistakes more often than not, such as missed tackle or a stupid penalty.

And your wishful thinking of the hiring of Chudzinski is merely that. Perhaps you should use a logical course of reasoning as to why we're going to hire this specific person in your opinion.

Seriously though, people like you are the worst kind of posters. Resorting to insults to back up your claims and taking issue with the person instead of the comment, like you're getting desperate to prove your point. Very obnoxious.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80488039

If you can seriously watch Derek Smith walk 2 feet to the right and think he did anything that any scrub player couldn't.. then may god have mercy on your soul.

And did you not read what I said.. in 2005 when we stuck through the season with Nolan's terrible 3-4(Douglas/Adams/Young on the line Carter/Smith/Ulbrich(before he got hurt)/Peterson as the LBs) Brandon Moore came in and excelled in THAT defense too. So again.. don't give me this ******** that he can't tackle in the 3-4. That's absolutely absurd to say when he DID tackle and he tackled well in the 3-4 2 years prior to getting benched for 2 missed tackles by Nolan. And what makes it worse that you're completely ******** on Brandon Moore for tackling.. is that you're doing it in favor of ******* Derek Smith the worst tackler in the entire game. What is the point of supposedly sticking to your assignments when even if you are in the right place you whiff like a giant ****** on the tackle. Honestly.. did you not see Derek Smith charge like an idiot at Tarvaris Jackson and get completely stone walled by a friggin QBs stiff arm? Or how about the first game of the season on the Edgerrin James TD.. Derek Smith actually ran directly into Isaac Sopoaga, knocked him over, and created a lane for James to get to the endzone. Or how about having a clear shot on Marc Bulger and completely whiffing on the sack. Or how he bounced off of Deangelo Williams when trying to tackle him. Or how he bounced off of Edgerrin James when trying to tackle him. Or how he bounced off of Brandon Jacobs when trying to tackle him. Or how he bounced off of Warrick Dunn when trying to tackle him. If you honestly think Brandon Moore couldn't have done ANY of that.. then you are a worst fan than I'll ever be, because you accept mediocrity.. and apparently accept these awful players leading our teams to awful records.

As for Chudzinski.. here are my reasons:
Braylon Edwards went from mediocre Michigan receiver to top flight deep threat under Chudzinski
Derek Anderson went from QB with potential.. to pro bowl QB under Chudzinski
He had his hand in the development of K2 at Miami as his TE coach and Ocoord

Now.. don't the Niners have a few mediocre receivers who you would like to see maybe get better? Or a QB with potential who hasn't quite lived up to it yet? Or a TE who needs some developing not to mention needs to actually be involved with the game plan(which Chudzinski obviously does). He also gets his RB involved and throws a fair amount of deep balls which is a Smith strong point(or so I hear). Now I know its far fetched to think Chudzinski is gonna automatically fix all of the Niners offensive woes.. and most coaches except for like the top 5 suck nowadays .. but to watch the Browns offense go from 31 to 8 under Chudzinski in one year flat and to watch the putrid offense the Niners have run the past couple of years it wouldn't be completely ridiculous to say that Chudzinski couldn't at the least get our offense in the 16-24 range after a year which would be a huge accomplishment considering I don't think our offense has sniffed being higher than the 25th overall offense in about 4 years. Is that enough logical reasoning for you?..
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Maybe they will just give the pick back to the colts :).
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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The NFL barely enforces the rule.
Hmmmmmm.... barely enforcing rules... then poof... decide to enforce them... wonder where I've heard that one...
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by papa burgundy View Post
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80488039

If you can seriously watch Derek Smith walk 2 feet to the right and think he did anything that any scrub player couldn't.. then may god have mercy on your soul.

And did you not read what I said.. in 2005 when we stuck through the season with Nolan's terrible 3-4(Douglas/Adams/Young on the line Carter/Smith/Ulbrich(before he got hurt)/Peterson as the LBs) Brandon Moore came in and excelled in THAT defense too. So again.. don't give me this ******** that he can't tackle in the 3-4. That's absolutely absurd to say when he DID tackle and he tackled well in the 3-4 2 years prior to getting benched for 2 missed tackles by Nolan. And what makes it worse that you're completely ******** on Brandon Moore for tackling.. is that you're doing it in favor of ******* Derek Smith the worst tackler in the entire game. What is the point of supposedly sticking to your assignments when even if you are in the right place you whiff like a giant ****** on the tackle. Honestly.. did you not see Derek Smith charge like an idiot at Tarvaris Jackson and get completely stone walled by a friggin QBs stiff arm? Or how about the first game of the season on the Edgerrin James TD.. Derek Smith actually ran directly into Isaac Sopoaga, knocked him over, and created a lane for James to get to the endzone. Or how about having a clear shot on Marc Bulger and completely whiffing on the sack. Or how he bounced off of Deangelo Williams when trying to tackle him. Or how he bounced off of Edgerrin James when trying to tackle him. Or how he bounced off of Brandon Jacobs when trying to tackle him. Or how he bounced off of Warrick Dunn when trying to tackle him. If you honestly think Brandon Moore couldn't have done ANY of that.. then you are a worst fan than I'll ever be, because you accept mediocrity.. and apparently accept these awful players leading our teams to awful records.

As for Chudzinski.. here are my reasons:
Braylon Edwards went from mediocre Michigan receiver to top flight deep threat under Chudzinski
Derek Anderson went from QB with potential.. to pro bowl QB under Chudzinski
He had his hand in the development of K2 at Miami as his TE coach and Ocoord

Now.. don't the Niners have a few mediocre receivers who you would like to see maybe get better? Or a QB with potential who hasn't quite lived up to it yet? Or a TE who needs some developing not to mention needs to actually be involved with the game plan(which Chudzinski obviously does). He also gets his RB involved and throws a fair amount of deep balls which is a Smith strong point(or so I hear). Now I know its far fetched to think Chudzinski is gonna automatically fix all of the Niners offensive woes.. and most coaches except for like the top 5 suck nowadays .. but to watch the Browns offense go from 31 to 8 under Chudzinski in one year flat and to watch the putrid offense the Niners have run the past couple of years it wouldn't be completely ridiculous to say that Chudzinski couldn't at the least get our offense in the 16-24 range after a year which would be a huge accomplishment considering I don't think our offense has sniffed being higher than the 25th overall offense in about 4 years. Is that enough logical reasoning for you?..
Where did I say that any player couldn't do what Derek Smith accomplished? I said he was responsible for having us win the game. And it's the truth. You're dancing around the point.

Yes I did read what you said, but it wasn't of any significant importance to the conversation, so I ignored it. It still doesn't excuse the fact that Brandon Moore was very unimpressive this past season. Not only in preseason, but in the regular season as well when he came in. It was very apparent especially in the Buccaneers game when Derek Smith went out and Moore took over his position. He still blew assignments and drew up penalties. Whatever success that Moore had last season, it's clearly gone. He's not a high motor player, he tires out easily, and has hot and cold games to go along with bonehead mistakes. Smith doesn't do that. You say that I support Smith, but I already told you that he's been bad at tackling. Just not blowing assignments. Moore has been bad at both. So your examples don't support Moore's case in the slightest. Apparently, you didn't even read what I said.

Here's a very nice post by a respected member at the official 49ers forum talking about the same topic. It's very insightful:

Quote:
I'm actually a bit disgusted with how this propaganda continues to fester on this board about "nolan players". The fact is that the player labeled as "nolan guys" are just better players at that time than most of the trumped up, over-idealized backup players fans somehow think are amazing. HOW is Smith a Nolan player? Nolan gave Moore and Ulbrich extensions long before he signed Smith to only 3 years. He benched Smith halfway through 2006 in favor of Moore. Smith didn't even have a job until Moore stunk it up in the preseason and he clearly lost it to Ulbrich by season's end. The fact is that despite his lack of playmaking, he atleast makes the tackle, if even a few yards too late, and he was consistent.

The reason is simple. Moore played MLB in 2005 for the most part and was extended not knowing what MLB Smith would do. In 2006 he played Mike(RILB) spot and showed good pass rushing technique from it. By mid 2006 when we caved back into a 4-3 with space eating DTs, he shined as a chase tackler and interior pass rusher. But in 2007 we drafted Willis at Mike and Moore was switched to Ted. Now he's got bigger blockers and different duties. A Ted has to attack and plug holes on the strong side and Moore missed tackles time after time. Who cares if he was 'in the hole', he missed the chance to stuff the play over and over again. Offenses blocked Lawson, doubled up to stop the DL and let Moore miss the tackle and let their RB easily reach the 2nd level time and again.

Moore basically showed he can't play the run at a 'Ted' LILB. So Smith, a guy who at least makes the tackle, took over. Moore went on to play a lot more special teams and Ulbrich eventually proved to be a better attacking 'Ted'.
On a separate note, I find your logic, well...illogical. You're making wild assumptions on what's going to happen like you're psychic, yet the 2008 season hasn't even begun yet. We just hired Mike Martz, who you're already dismissing. As for this Browns offensive coordinator, I personally wasn't too impressed. It's only been one season, and from what I read he has no major experience in the NFL as an offensive coordinator. In my opinion, Derek Anderson helped make him shine more than anything. And he's only had one good season to his resume himself as a QB. He faded down the stretch if I'm not mistaken...making more bad plays than good ones. If Anderson was the superstar all along at quarterback, why did Charlie Frye start opening day?
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Where did I say that any player couldn't do what Derek Smith accomplished? I said he was responsible for having us win the game. And it's the truth. You're dancing around the point.
Saying he was responsible for the win is mind numbingly dumb. A good defensive call was responsible for that play.. Andy Lee consistently putting them in bad field position or Trent Dilfer having a randomly good game or Neil Rackers blowing a chip shot FG were all responsible for winning that game.

Quote:
Yes I did read what you said, but it wasn't of any significant importance to the conversation, so I ignored it. It still doesn't excuse the fact that Brandon Moore was very unimpressive this past season. Not only in preseason, but in the regular season as well when he came in. It was very apparent especially in the Buccaneers game when Derek Smith went out and Moore took over his position. He still blew assignments and drew up penalties. Whatever success that Moore had last season, it's clearly gone. He's not a high motor player, he tires out easily, and has hot and cold games to go along with bonehead mistakes. Smith doesn't do that. You say that I support Smith, but I already told you that he's been bad at tackling. Just not blowing assignments. Moore has been bad at both. So your examples don't support Moore's case in the slightest. Apparently, you didn't even read what I said.
Derek Smith.. he got beat in coverage .. he whiffed on tackles/sacks .. he got blew up by a QB .. he got bulldozed by running backs ..
he ran into his own players .. If that's not "blowing assignments" then I don't know how you can't say it wasn't just as bad if not worse. He was AWFUL last season.. not just in tackles but in ever facet of the game. And he did that all in the regular season.. and it wasn't until week friggin 10 that he saw reduced play in favor of Jeff Ulbrich(who I must say looked like the solid mad bomber he was 3 years ago before he tore his bicep or tricep or w/e he tore).

And considering Brandon Moore didn't get any significant time in the 3-4 at any point in the season.. I still have no idea where you get this idea that he lost what he had the past 2 seasons or he was blowing assignments. He was benched clearly on the favoritism of an idiot coach who continually misuses his personnel talent. All of Moore's time came in that stupid nickel package as a friggin DE that didn't work all season yet Nolan insisted on using it every game. If you're using that as a reason as to why he should have got benched for an ILB spot then you're being completely ridiculous. If you're saying he didn't play well as a friggin DE then well DUH! He's a friggin natural linebacker. And if not.. If you are saying he lost it for poor play in the 3-4 at the Ted position then I'd love to know what these blown assignments or bone headed mistakes were. Because I guarantee you between Moore and Smith.. Smith had a bad play ratio of about 10 to 1 on Moore.

Quote:
On a separate note, I find your logic, well...illogical. You're making wild assumptions on what's going to happen like you're psychic, yet the 2008 season hasn't even begun yet. We just hired Mike Martz, who you're already dismissing. As for this Browns offensive coordinator, I personally wasn't too impressed. It's only been one season, and from what I read he has no major experience in the NFL as an offensive coordinator. In my opinion, Derek Anderson helped make him shine more than anything. If Anderson was the superstar all along at quarterback, why did Charlie Frye start opening day?
I'm dismissing Martz, because we are about as far away from fitting his system as you can get. And with Nolan on the hot seat.. he doesn't have any time to fully install it with the right personnel. We don't have the receivers for it. We don't have the line to block for it. And we don't have a shifty finesse back to spread all over the field for it. On the other hand.. Chudzinski's offense fits exactly what our personnel is. We have the power back for it. We have the game breaking TE for it. And we have the possession receivers for it. It's the same system Marty Schottenheimer and Cam Cameron ran in San Diego.. in which Chudzinski was on staff as the TE coach for so he's got a great lineage of running it. And as far as Derek Anderson goes.. I don't think its exactly a coincident that he looked fairly mediocre before Chudzinski came along and even in the Pro Bowl he looked pretty terrible. But under Chudzinski he's looked like a bona fide NFL starting QB. But you're right on the experience thing.. that's the only thing that really worries me about him. But if it came between him, McDaniels, and Garrett.. which I'm sure it will next year because I'm sure York will want get a young offensive minded head coach then I'd take Chudzinski easily over the other 2. And if experience is all you're looking for.. I wouldn't mind Marty Schottenheimer as head coach for next year either.



Also.. to add to the whole Briggs subject. I think it would be terrible to sign him for both financial and system reasons. First off.. having that much money invested into 2 inside linebackers who do mostly the same things would be downright ********. Second.. he doesn't fit the Ted role. He'd be better suited for Willis' Mike role of a sideline to sideline guy. I'd rather invest money elsewhere in the off-season and go with either Ulbrich or Moore who are both downhill guys and fit the role better.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
I'm actually a bit disgusted with how this propaganda continues to fester on this board about "nolan players". The fact is that the player labeled as "nolan guys" are just better players at that time than most of the trumped up, over-idealized backup players fans somehow think are amazing. HOW is Smith a Nolan player? Nolan gave Moore and Ulbrich extensions long before he signed Smith to only 3 years. He benched Smith halfway through 2006 in favor of Moore. Smith didn't even have a job until Moore stunk it up in the preseason and he clearly lost it to Ulbrich by season's end. The fact is that despite his lack of playmaking, he atleast makes the tackle, if even a few yards too late, and he was consistent.

The reason is simple. Moore played MLB in 2005 for the most part and was extended not knowing what MLB Smith would do. In 2006 he played Mike(RILB) spot and showed good pass rushing technique from it. By mid 2006 when we caved back into a 4-3 with space eating DTs, he shined as a chase tackler and interior pass rusher. But in 2007 we drafted Willis at Mike and Moore was switched to Ted. Now he's got bigger blockers and different duties. A Ted has to attack and plug holes on the strong side and Moore missed tackles time after time. Who cares if he was 'in the hole', he missed the chance to stuff the play over and over again. Offenses blocked Lawson, doubled up to stop the DL and let Moore miss the tackle and let their RB easily reach the 2nd level time and again.

Moore basically showed he can't play the run at a 'Ted' LILB. So Smith, a guy who at least makes the tackle, took over. Moore went on to play a lot more special teams and Ulbrich eventually proved to be a better attacking 'Ted'.
let me guess.. either DraconisRex or TheWiz? BACKFIELD PENETRATIONS WOOHOO DEREK SMITH!

Saying Smith "at least makes the tackle" instantly kills any credibility this person has. Along with saying Moore missed tackle after tackle.. he missed 2 tackles in the pre-season before getting benched. THATS IT. PLLLLLLLLLLEASE show me any example where he was missing tackles in the regular season. 2005 2006 or 2007.. doesn't matter.

BTW LMAO for going on the Niners board and asking them for help.. truly showing you don't know what you're talking about.

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Old 02-22-2008, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by papa burgundy View Post
let me guess.. either DraconisRex or TheWiz? BACKFIELD PENETRATIONS WOOHOO DEREK SMITH!

Saying Smith "at least makes the tackle" instantly kills any credibility this person has. Along with saying Moore missed tackle after tackle.. he missed 2 tackles in the pre-season before getting benched. THATS IT. PLLLLLLLLLLEASE show me any example where he was missing tackles in the regular season. 2005 2006 or 2007.. doesn't matter.

BTW LMAO for going on the Niners board and asking them for help.. truly showing you don't know what you're talking about.
But Moore doesn't make the tackle and blows assignments. Logically you would want someone that does something bad instead of doing multiple things bad. In other words, Moore. I don't see the creditability is killed, just because you're willing to dismiss it, despite the fact that evidence is clearly being given. "Show you an example"? I don't have official games. How can I show you? I can only make my statement while acquiring the most evidence efficiently. If that means asking for help from others to only prove my point further, that's what I shall do. It's the same as a college student seeking quotes from other sources to verify their claims for a research paper. I'm doing the logical thing. Using evidence to support my statements. It's quite normal. You can "laugh" all you want, but you apparently seem to be amusing yourself, which ironically I find funny.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 02-22-2008, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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Saying he was responsible for the win is mind numbingly dumb. A good defensive call was responsible for that play.. Andy Lee consistently putting them in bad field position or Trent Dilfer having a randomly good game or Neil Rackers blowing a chip shot FG were all responsible for winning that game.
Well that's obvious. Football is a team sport. Derek Smith helped the football team on that final play. He helped when the game. Period. Again, you're dancing around the point that Derek Smith helped win the game.

Quote:
Derek Smith.. he got beat in coverage .. he whiffed on tackles/sacks .. he got blew up by a QB .. he got bulldozed by running backs ..
he ran into his own players .. If that's not "blowing assignments" then I don't know how you can't say it wasn't just as bad if not worse. He was AWFUL last season.. not just in tackles but in ever facet of the game. And he did that all in the regular season.. and it wasn't until week friggin 10 that he saw reduced play in favor of Jeff Ulbrich(who I must say looked like the solid mad bomber he was 3 years ago before he tore his bicep or tricep or w/e he tore).

And considering Brandon Moore didn't get any significant time in the 3-4 at any point in the season.. I still have no idea where you get this idea that he lost what he had the past 2 seasons or he was blowing assignments. He was benched clearly on the favoritism of an idiot coach who continually misuses his personnel talent. All of Moore's time came in that stupid nickel package as a friggin DE that didn't work all season yet Nolan insisted on using it every game. If you're using that as a reason as to why he should have got benched for an ILB spot then you're being completely ridiculous. If you're saying he didn't play well as a friggin DE then well DUH! He's a friggin natural linebacker. And if not.. If you are saying he lost it for poor play in the 3-4 at the Ted position then I'd love to know what these blown assignments or bone headed mistakes were. Because I guarantee you between Moore and Smith.. Smith had a bad play ratio of about 10 to 1 on Moore.
The point is already proven from the other member's quote I just displayed. If you want the technical specs about it. Not to mention there's a topic on the forum I started about this discussion and the majority of the members favors my point over yours. And didn't Derek Smith get replaced in the Buccaneers game and Brandon Moore came in at his position and kept giving up the middle to the tight end? That was either him or Patrick Willis. Actually he was replacing Derek Smith a lot in the second half of games down the stretch of the season. He still didn't do anything special.

Quote:
I'm dismissing Martz, because we are about as far away from fitting his system as you can get. And with Nolan on the hot seat.. he doesn't have any time to fully install it with the right personnel. We don't have the receivers for it. We don't have the line to block for it. And we don't have a shifty finesse back to spread all over the field for it. On the other hand.. Chudzinski's offense fits exactly what our personnel is. We have the power back for it. We have the game breaking TE for it. And we have the possession receivers for it. It's the same system Marty Schottenheimer and Cam Cameron ran in San Diego.. in which Chudzinski was on staff as the TE coach for so he's got a great lineage of running it. And as far as Derek Anderson goes.. I don't think its exactly a coincident that he looked fairly mediocre before Chudzinski came along and even in the Pro Bowl he looked pretty terrible. But under Chudzinski he's looked like a bona fide NFL starting QB. But you're right on the experience thing.. that's the only thing that really worries me about him. But if it came between him, McDaniels, and Garrett.. which I'm sure it will next year because I'm sure York will want get a young offensive minded head coach then I'd take Chudzinski easily over the other 2. And if experience is all you're looking for.. I wouldn't mind Marty Schottenheimer as head coach for next year either.
The season, preseason, training camp, the draft, and even free agency has yet to begin. You're making wild assumptions that you hope will come true. Which is again, why I find it illogical. It's just about as valid as me saying Kevin Gilbride will be our next head coach...despite the fact that he received an extension.
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Hmmmmmm.... barely enforcing rules... then poof... decide to enforce them... wonder where I've heard that one...
Translation: "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, my team got caught cheating and I don't want to admit that it was wrong or it diminishes their accomplishments. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
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