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Old 07-17-2008, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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so how do u know its gonna stop now?
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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I didn't say I was Miss Cleo...I'm predicting the Bears defense won't be as productive as before.
One reason is the teams morale. You think guys like Briggs, Urlacher, Tillman feel good when they realize that they have to carry the team on their shoulders this season? I doubt it. They already know that the offense isn't the least bit good, they know what lies ahead of them.

Another one is injuries. The Bears always seem to have at least one or two devastating injuries every year. Last year they were without Vasher, Mike Brown and Tommie Harris' performance was plagued by injuries all last season. You say the Bears don't rely on Mike Brown anymore, yet he is still listed as the starter, though Manning will likely get a lot of playing time.

Listen, I'm not saying they are going to be a horrible defense, I'm saying that they are not going to be able to carry that horrible offense on its shoulders because they won't be as good as previous seasons. They won't be the worst defense in the NFL, but they certainly won't be the best.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I have to agree that the Division is wide open. There isn't one team in the Division that is solid unless Favre returns to Green Bay.

Minnesota will have to have Jackson make a significant improvement at QB. He's probably a year away from being a solid starter but if he can do just enough, Minny might win it all. Of course Peterson hasn't had a healthy season for 3 years running and if he goes down again for any significant time, they'll be in trouble.

Green Bay could finish 1st in the Division if Rodgers can get the job done. If he flops, last place could loom. The question also remains that if Rodgers struggles how good will Grant be if teams don't fear GB's passing attack. It's a lot easier for a RB to look good when defenses are far more scared of the pass and defend it foremost. Believe me if Rodgers struggles, GB could easily finish last.

Chicago has a chance to compete but simply must get its running game going for that to happen. It amazes me how home town fans both in Chicago and Detroit both think that their RB problems will be solved by RB's drafted after round 1. That is hardly a sure thing and rarely happens so Chicago will have a huge question mark until Forte proves he can get the job done. Grossman or Orton may be okay if Chicago has a running attack but if the running attack turns out to be mediocre, Chicago will be in for a long season.

Detroit is going nowhere. They will try to pound the ball on offense using a 3rd round rookie, if he can do thje job their offense could be tough as teams will have to defend the run which will leave Williams and Johnson single teamed on the outside. But that is uncertain until Smith proves to be effective.
On defense, Detroit is by far one of the worst teams in the NFL. On a defense that depends solely on a strong pass rush, they are lacking everywhere and teams that have a solid QB will destroy them. Fortunately no NFC North team may have that QB so their record in the NFC North may be OK. However they aren't going to be in any game where a team has a decent QB. He'll ripe that defense to pieces.

In truth, this is a very mediocre Division and any team winning more than 8 or 9 games will clearly be champion. The team that dominates the Division will be champion as wins from outside the Division will be hard to come by. The Super Bowl is totally out of the question.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Anyone that actually thinks the Bears will only win 3 games isn't even worth arguing with. We would have to suffer so many injuries on defense far beyond the one or two that tend to happen.

The rest of your arguments are ridiculous, by the way. I don't think morale is going to go down any more on defense considering they've been carrying the team for the last 70 years.

Carry on.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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By the way, outside of the receiver position the Lions aren't better anywhere else on offense. The only reason people don't make fun of the Lions offense more is because their defense is equally terrible.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
By the way, outside of the receiver position the Lions aren't better anywhere else on offense. The only reason people don't make fun of the Lions offense more is because their defense is equally terrible.
Like Chicago Detroit's offensive performance rests on their rookie RB's shoulders. If he is effective, they can have the best offense in the Division.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay could finish 1st in the Division if Rodgers can get the job done. If he flops, last place could loom. The question also remains that if Rodgers struggles how good will Grant be if teams don't fear GB's passing attack. It's a lot easier for a RB to look good when defenses are far more scared of the pass and defend it foremost. Believe me if Rodgers struggles, GB could easily finish last.

Even if Rodgers does Struggle I see no way that we would finish behind the Bears and the Lions. We have a running game that was much improved down the strech and a defense that was 6th in the NFL in points allowed last year. Not to mention we are returning 20 of our 22 starters from last year. Our defense is also going to much more aggresive this year with much more blitzing and pressure packages. I fully expect Aaron Rouse to beat out Nick Collins for our one of our saftey spots and he will add more playmaking abilty to our D.

The Vikes could finish first but they can't throw the ball consistantly and teams are going to be loading up the box all year and if Jackson can't show that he can beat teams with his arm the Vikes will never take the next step as a team.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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By the way, outside of the receiver position the Lions aren't better anywhere else on offense. The only reason people don't make fun of the Lions offense more is because their defense is equally terrible.
They are better at quarterback and the whole passing game is significantly better than the Bears. Both run games are very weak.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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The Passing game was better, especially statistically cause of the better WRs and cause Martz threw the ball 3930202109 trillion times
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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The Passing game was better, especially statistically cause of the better WRs and cause Martz threw the ball 3930202109 trillion times
Kitna is a better QB than Rex Grossman/Kyle Orton. The Lions had only 18 more pass attempts than the Bears. 587 compared to 569. So you're wrong there with the trillion number LOL. And yet Kitna has a great completion percentage at 63% with a high number of attempts. Grossman/Orton are 53/54% passers. All 3 QBs have costly interceptions under pressure(making Kitna average), but Kitna can at least move the chains and has a command of his offense. And Kitna didn't lose his weapons. Grossman/Orton pretty much lost Berrian. Griese statistically was your best QB last year but again he had the interception problem too.

On the other hand, it's not that the Lions couldn't run the ball. Its that they ran the ball significantly less. Why do I say this?

Lions attempts 324.

Bears attempts 423.

The Bears had 99 more carries and yet only 42 more total yards rushing. Lions averaged 4.0 per carry, the Bears averaged (3.1 YPC).

Lions ran the ball rarely and were average when they did run the ball(19th at 4.0 YPC). The Bears ran the ball an average amount of time(423 attempt is 19th) but they were absolutely terrible when they did run the ball (3.1 YPC).

I would rather have an average running game that is seldom used(Lions) than a running game that is terrible and used way more often(Bears).

Whats changed? Rookie talented RBs for each team. Bears have Lions RB(who after his second major injury may be shelved for half the season. Lions changed philsophy with zone blocking, get best blocking tight end back(Campbell), added another decent blocking tight end (Gaines) and added a Right Tackle who is very good at run blocking. Lions will run the ball more and have the capability to be average at least. The Bears added a LT and Tait has to adjust as a run blocker just like Cherilus has to adjust. Bears have a longer way to go from awful instead of average.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...M&d-447263-p=1
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...M&d-447263-p=1

Lions running game> Bears running game
Lions passing game>Bears passing game
Bears Defense(not dominant but good)>Lions Defense(many changes on D) which makes it interesting

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Old 08-25-2008, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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1. Minnesota
2. Green Bay
3. Detroit
4. Chicago
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:24 AM    (permalink
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1. Minnesota
2. Green Bay
3. Detroit
4. Chicago
homer!!! :)

I agree though
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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homer!!! :)

I agree though
One main reason is that I think Ryan Grant is going to struggle this year. He doesn't have great physical tools and I think if Rodgers shows any signs of struggle at all, teams are going to play for the run so much more than they did last year. I think it will be hard for GB to run the football at times, something they just did last year to keep defenses off balance.

I also just don't think the DL for Green Bay is all that great either.

While I'm certainly not sold on my Vikings either, I think they have less question marks than the Packers do and are just an overall better team this year. It will be close, and we'll probably split the season series.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Could it be that the Packers still have the best QB in the division?
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Could it be that the Packers still have the best QB in the division?
Yes, but it'll take at least 6 weeks until any other teams' fans will admit it.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Yes, but it'll take at least 6 weeks until any other teams' fans will admit it.
Right now I would have to say right now after watching the games from this past week.

1a. Kitna
1b. Rodgers
3. Orton
4. Jackson

I Put Orton over Jackson for the reason he was Consistent and he managed the game to give the Bears the Chance to win, If Tarvaris didnt throw the INT at the end I might have put him over Orton for the reason of his gameplay on running the ball and 1 TD pass. Kitna and Rodgers showed they are good but I went with experience over 1 game.

But the rankings might go from week to week.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Are there any Vikings fans here that still have hope for Jackson?
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Are there any Vikings fans here that still have hope for Jackson?
Not this guy.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Because Tony Moll runs down the field Rodgers loses about 70 yards and a TD. Stats aren't everything but Rodgers played extremely well and was more then a game manager which he obviously should be. His added dimension of running to get 1sts at times and QB sneaks is nice to have... something Favre rarely did anymore. Still to early to tell who will be the best, time will tell.... likely Rodgers or Kitna.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Are there any Vikings fans here that still have hope for Jackson?
I like his running ability and his arm but His accuracy and reading the defense's are not there. Which is a major part of a QB and idk...Im sort of starting not too. He looked good in the 2nd half but 1st half was just a nightmare.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Right now I would have to say right now after watching the games from this past week.

1a. Kitna
1b. Rodgers
3. Orton
4. Jackson

I Put Orton over Jackson for the reason he was Consistent and he managed the game to give the Bears the Chance to win, If Tarvaris didnt throw the INT at the end I might have put him over Orton for the reason of his gameplay on running the ball and 1 TD pass. Kitna and Rodgers showed they are good but I went with experience over 1 game.

But the rankings might go from week to week.
Solid rationale and I concur.

Something to think about is the O-Line and Receivers of each QB, along with run support. Having a defense that can get you more opportunities valuable too. Kitna was pummeled and his defense got ground up for 300+ yards. When you get run on like that, hard to come in when the other team is teeing off for pass rush due to getting up so early. Orton received solid effort from his teammates. Jackson was not good, IMO. His 6 yards in the first half was pathetic. He had some plays in the second half, but he faced more pressure from the GB defense than Rodgers faced from the Vikings D-Line, which says a little bit about both O-lines and D-lines. His 81.3% throwing percentage in his starting game was the second best ever.

After six games we'll be able to see exactly who has the RB support (Grant had 94 yards on 12 carries against the 3 bowler line of the Vikings), the pass blocking and the Receivers to make the plays. Rodgers wasn't sacked even though Jared Allen and Kevin Williams were on the other side of a line with a new center and a new RG and Jennings and Driver made some nice plays with tight coverage.

Forte was impressive for a rookie. AD could have likely had more yards if GB was scared at all of him, which they weren't. Detroit has to fire Millen. Or don't, and the Bears, Packers and Vikings will continue to fight for the division whilst they fight for the #1 overall draft pick.

Bears defense was tough on the Colts. That scoring defense cost me my fantasy FB game as I had the Colts defense going against the Bears defense.

I still think Bears, Packers and Vikings will be tough games for other teams, though the QB position for Bears and Jackson seems to be unable to win games and are little more than game managers for their defenses.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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I find it incredibly hard to believe that our line will play as well this year as it did on Sunday.

That said, I'll say this for the Bears, this is a formula that has been proven to be very successful. It seems like eons ago since they made the Superbowl, but the conservative offense + good defense was a golden ticket for two seasons with injuries wrecking a lot of things last year.

Again, not sure we'll be able to sustain it to win the division, but I'm not so sure last week was flukey either.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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I find it incredibly hard to believe that our line will play as well this year as it did on Sunday.

That said, I'll say this for the Bears, this is a formula that has been proven to be very successful. It seems like eons ago since they made the Superbowl, but the conservative offense + good defense was a golden ticket for two seasons with injuries wrecking a lot of things last year.

Again, not sure we'll be able to sustain it to win the division, but I'm not so sure last week was flukey either.
The only problem I have with the Bears strategy is what do they do when they can't generate turnovers or special teams points? You simply need to be able to move the ball through the air some games because you won't always be playing with a lead.
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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The only problem I have with the Bears strategy is what do they do when they can't generate turnovers or special teams points? You simply need to be able to move the ball through the air some games because you won't always be playing with a lead.
We scored 20 non-defense/return points against the Colts.

I'm not refuting the fact that our offense is mediocre at best, but this strategy has worked well in the past, and is generally the same model used by the Jaguars (though they rely less on turnovers and more on pure defensive dominance).

I agree though, it's not a locktight strategy by any means, though I'm not sure what is. The Packers have the ability to come from behind better (although we've actually had a pretty good history of that in the past), but I would argue the Bears have a better ability to maintain 4th quarter leads and apply pressure, create turnovers as well. For example, what happens when Al Harris and/or Charles Woodson fail in man-on-man coverage, or when the run game shuts down? Every team has things they rely on that aren't full-proof.
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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For example, what happens when Al Harris and/or Charles Woodson fail in man-on-man coverage
Plexiglass is what happens.
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