My 2008 Chargers Mock

[DonWoods33]

Good thing AJ Smith is the GM. I am a nicer guy but he is da man. I take back everything I said about you AJ. It's becoming apparent that you can run the entire operation, and not just the draft. Norv Turner's playoff run has erased about 50% of my doubts about him. Provided a healthy team (much is riding on Phillip Rivers full return), this should finally be the year. See you all in Tampa.

1) Kenny Phillips (6-2, 215) Miami
If he falls. I think you have to jump all over him. He is one of the potential elite players in this draft. He hasn't had the best JR year and hasn't wowed in off season workouts, but the potential of having him complete the best secondary in the league, is too much to ignore.

4) RB Jalen Parmele (5-11, 226) Toledo
Very productive back from the same conference as Michael Turner. He played well in the Hula Bowl, and the 2008 RB class is nearly similar to 2005 (although Turner was picked in 2004, not nearly as good a RB year). Top heavy with lots of media hyped guys in between, think Slaton, Rice, Hart, Charles and now Forte. Some of them guys will bust so somebody good is bound to fall through the cracks. Maybe it's him. He had a 41" vertical jump, that means he has powerful legs, and good (4.47) speed.

5) OL Barry Richardson (6-6, 320) Clemson
He has all the tools to be a LT, moves his feet well, but I am projecting him at OG, so he can get out in space and make blocks down field. I know he's soft, so he has uphill fight, but the potential is there, if he wants it bad enough. And with him able to play LT that is a huge plus, even as a reserve. He is a gamble on greatness pick.

6) DE Chris Norwell (6-6, 300) Ilinois
I have seen this guy play before a couple of times, and he showed pretty good penetration, and made some plays. I am projecting him to DE in the 3-4. I think he's kind of an underrated player, who might be able to stick.

7) CB Zack Bowman (6-0, 197) Nebraska
Another guy with outstanding measurables, and decent production when he played. He just really hasn't been healthy. If he can play special teams, and develop into a 3rd corner who can cover the slot WR. That would be worth taking a flyer on.

Well there you have it. Feel free to give me your feedback. If Phillips or Smith is gone. I guess that blows the whole thing up.

[SDSupaChargers]

Pretty decent mock. I agree with all the positions you select, but maybe not the order/players. Would not be my favorite draft if it happened, but I could live with it.

First, I really don't think Phillips is there at the end of the first. If he is, then I have no problem with the pick, but I don't think that he's going to be there. Phillips vs. a stud RT and I take Phillips. Smith vs. a stud RT and I start to lean towards the RT. But if Phillips is there and we take him I would not have a problem with that at all.

I like Parmele. Don't know a ton about him, but he seems like a good prospect and has good size so he could definitely fit what we need. I will say that I think the 4th round is a bit of a reach. I think there will be a lot of good RBs available rounds 5-7 and he should be one of them.

Barry Richardson could be an absolute steal as long as Norv can motivate him. If our staff feels confident that they can do that then he would be a great pick and would make me feel a lot better about not getting OL in the first.

I'd rather see NT than DE in the 6th, but any Dline depth is good because it's an area we're hurting in. I do think that Norwell is a bit of a reach though. I'm not sure he even gets drafted.

Don't think Bowman will still be there in the 7th but if he is then I like the pick. He has a lot of potential and seems like a good character guy. Could be our dime back and eventual nickel back.

[defensiveback23]

Very nice mock, I like it a lot. I still have my doubts Phillips will be there but if he is the draft is automatically a success imo. I would rather see Omon over Parmele, but he could be gone by then. Richardson is a nice low risk high reward pick and I really like Bowman a lot. The Chargers do to because they have shown a lot of interest in him. Overall I think it's the best Chargers mock I've seen.

[DonWoods33]

Originally Posted by SDSupaChargers

Pretty decent mock. I agree with all the positions you select, but maybe not the order/players. Would not be my favorite draft if it happened, but I could live with it.

Thanks I will take it where I can get it.

Originally Posted by SDSupaChargers

First, I really don't think Phillips is there at the end of the first. If he is, then I have no problem with the pick, but I don't think that he's going to be there. Phillips vs. a stud RT and I take Phillips. Smith vs. a stud RT and I start to lean towards the RT. But if Phillips is there and we take him I would not have a problem with that at all.

I kind of agree with you on Phillips, besides I don't even know if they would take him if he was there. Reading around the web though and you find more and more he's falling. Maybe I am caught up in last years hype about him, but I kind of think Philly has to take a hard look at him. If Philips gets past there we might be home free. If your talking about Cherlis. I am not sure about him, to me he has some pretty good bust potential. Besides I am not sure they are really that bad off on the OLine, maybe depth wise and I would like to see Goff replaced, but I am willing to goto war Clary out there at RT. We got by with Olivea for a long while.

Originally Posted by SDSupaChargers

I like Parmele. Don't know a ton about him, but he seems like a good prospect and has good size so he could definitely fit what we need. I will say that I think the 4th round is a bit of a reach. I think there will be a lot of good RBs available rounds 5-7 and he should be one of them.

This would be the Donnie Edwards comp pick. So basically its a fifth rounder. One other thing I like about AJ Smith it seems if he likes a guy he pulls the trigger. He seems to take the attitude of "why wait(think Olshansky and V. Jackson where he was panned for reaching on them) thats kind of why I did it there.

Originally Posted by SDSupaChargers

Barry Richardson could be an absolute steal as long as Norv can motivate him. If our staff feels confident that they can do that then he would be a great pick and would make me feel a lot better about not getting OL in the first.

Not sure if Norv can, but maybe the position coach can. Richardson really has a bad rap doesn't he? I mean for a guy that was a 4 year starter in the ACC with his tools. He could be over analyzed for what he is.

Originally Posted by SDSupaChargers

I'd rather see NT than DE in the 6th, but any Dline depth is good because it's an area we're hurting in. I do think that Norwell is a bit of a reach though. I'm not sure he even gets drafted.

Like I said I saw him make some nice plays in a couple of games. Couple of sacks, some decent penetration. I think one of the games was Michigan or Penn State. Kind of impressed me. He is certainly big enough to hold the fort. I think they kind of like their back up NTs. I mean you never see them bring in much in the way of UDFA, and the like. Every year we say bring in Jamal's replacement and they don't, and it seems like NTs can play into their late 30s (think Ted Washington, Sam Adams)

Originally Posted by SDSupaChargers

Don't think Bowman will still be there in the 7th but if he is then I like the pick. He has a lot of potential and seems like a good character guy. Could be our dime back and eventual nickel back.

I think they like Oliver as a corner, at least thats what PFW had going yesterday, but hey you always need more depth. I would draft corners every year if I was running the show.

[DonWoods33]

Originally Posted by defensiveback23

Very nice mock, I like it a lot. I still have my doubts Phillips will be there but if he is the draft is automatically a success imo. I would rather see Omon over Parmele, but he could be gone by then. Richardson is a nice low risk high reward pick and I really like Bowman a lot. The Chargers do to because they have shown a lot of interest in him. Overall I think it's the best Chargers mock I've seen.

Thanks, I took Parmele because he is about a .15 second faster. What really stood out was his high jump at 41.5". If you look at those pro day reports its by far one of the highest out there. I thought it was at typo at first. He's built kind of squatty so thats really pushing that weight up there. Thats a lot of leg strength.
I think your spot on with Phillips, if he is what we think he is, and hes the only draft pick to make the team I think its a good draft.

[defensiveback23]

Originally Posted by DonWoods33

Thanks, I took Parmele because he is about a .15 second faster. What really stood out was his high jump at 41.5". If you look at those pro day reports its by far one of the highest out there. I thought it was at typo at first. He's built kind of squatty so thats really pushing that weight up there. Thats a lot of leg strength.
I think your spot on with Phillips, if he is what we think he is, and hes the only draft pick to make the team I think its a good draft.

AJ has stated before that measureables almost never factor into a decision with the one exception being if they are terrible. I just like Omon because he runs with great power and has underrated speed. He reminds me a lot of Turner.

Originally Posted by DonWoods33

I think they like Oliver as a corner, at least thats what PFW had going yesterday, but hey you always need more depth. I would draft corners every year if I was running the show.

It's been reported by Kevin Acee that Oliver will fill a hybrid CB/S role as the dimeback and the Chargers will make a decision on which position he ultimately ends up at by his play.

[KRS1]

Originally Posted by defensiveback23

AJ has stated before that measureables almost never factor into a decision with the one exception being if they are terrible. I just like Omon because he runs with great power and has underrated speed. He reminds me a lot of Turner.


It's been reported by Kevin Acee that Oliver will fill a hybrid CB/S role as the dimeback and the Chargers will make a decision on which position he ultimately ends up at by his play.

Do you have any direct quotes on AJ saying he almost never factors measurables? I seem to remember reading things from he and Buddy Nix about prefering players that produce at the college level and such but they have also made plenty of picks on what would appear to be purely measurables. They have made plenty of risk and reward type picks. Cromartie and Nanaae come to mind even guys like Merriman and Phillips come to mind because they were college lineman that were drafted with the intent to play linebacker. The only hard line I have ever heard the draft team make was on character issue guys, they definitely seem to stear clear of them. I'm not trying to call you out or anything I just have never seen any quotes like that. Looking at AJ's Drafts you can definitely point out some picks that seem to have been made based more on assesments of athleticism and "measurables" than anything else.

[DonWoods33]

Originally Posted by defensiveback23

AJ has stated before that measureables almost never factor into a decision with the one exception being if they are terrible. I just like Omon because he runs with great power and has underrated speed. He reminds me a lot of Turner.


It's been reported by Kevin Acee that Oliver will fill a hybrid CB/S role as the dimeback and the Chargers will make a decision on which position he ultimately ends up at by his play.

I know, but being that both of these guys were almost the same production wise, and Parmele played at a bigger school, and is faster. So I liked him a bit more. Turner has real good speed, that was evident in college returning kickoffs, and speed kills.

[defensiveback23]

Originally Posted by KRS1

Do you have any direct quotes on AJ saying he almost never factors measurables? I seem to remember reading things from he and Buddy Nix about prefering players that produce at the college level and such but they have also made plenty of picks on what would appear to be purely measurables. They have made plenty of risk and reward type picks. Cromartie and Nanaae come to mind even guys like Merriman and Phillips come to mind because they were college lineman that were drafted with the intent to play linebacker. The only hard line I have ever heard the draft team make was on character issue guys, they definitely seem to stear clear of them. I'm not trying to call you out or anything I just have never seen any quotes like that. Looking at AJ's Drafts you can definitely point out some picks that seem to have been made based more on assesments of athleticism and "measurables" than anything else.

I couldn't find any from Smith, but got some from Buddy Nix who has been noted to have the most impact on Smith with draft advisory. Basically, what he says reflects Smith's opinion also.

Originally Posted by Buddy Nix

“We don’t draft guys on what they run, how high they jump and what they lift,” Chargers Assistant General Manager Buddy Nix said. “How we see them play on tape and how we see them practice is the bulk of how we form our opinions. The physical stuff, it’s a small part of the puzzle. Every bit of the whole procedure is a little ole’ piece that fits. I’d say 80 percent of ours is how a guy plays in college.”

“To us, the medical evaluations and the opportunity we have to get to know guys through the interview process is the biggest thing (about the Combine).”

...

The Chargers do find the on-field work at the Combine beneficial, but they use it more to confirm what they’ve seen throughout the players’ college career.

“If you look at a defensive back and he runs a 4.9 (40-yard dash), that’s a red flag and you go back and see what you saw on film during the season was true,” Nix said. “It just makes you recheck and redo. That’s about what the physical part of this does for us.”

http://www.chargers.com/news/headlin...rs-combine.htm

Also, Nick Canepa of the UT had this insight on AJ.

Originally Posted by Nick Canepa

Chargers GM A.J. Smith, as an example, goes to the Combine strictly for player interviews and to look into medical histories.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s12canepa.html

As far as Cromartie goes, he is pretty much the only high pick the Chargers have made based more on potential than substance. It's not like Cro didn't produce in college when he played and he got a good amount of PT his sophomore year rotating with the starters.

Naanee can't be included because he was a 5th round pick. You can afford to take a chance that late in the draft.

Merriman was a workout warrior no doubt, but he also had great production in college. Not only this, but he had experience as a rush LB in the Terps' scheme and was not new to dropping into coverage.

Phillips was also not drafted based off more potential than production. He led the Big 10 in sacks with 14.5 and tackles for loss with 23 his senior year. Converting to OLB was never a huge concern with him due to his lateral quickness and limited experience dropping back. His drafting also affirms the fact they don't look to deeply into workouts because he ran a 4.84 at the combine.

Originally Posted by DonWoods33

I know, but being that both of these guys were almost the same production wise, and Parmele played at a bigger school, and is faster. So I liked him a bit more. Turner has real good speed, that was evident in college returning kickoffs, and speed kills.

I wouldn't mind us drafting Parmele in the least, I just like Omon more. He also has very underrated speed, a lot like MT because I remember there being questions about his speed in 04'. It's not relevant, but Omon's career stats severely dwarf Parmele's. He ran for 1,500 yards for an NCAA record 4 consecutive seasons, although it was at NW Missouri St.

[KRS1]

Originally Posted by defensiveback23

I couldn't find any from Smith, but got some from Buddy Nix who has been noted to have the most impact on Smith with draft advisory. Basically, what he says reflects Smith's opinion also.



http://www.chargers.com/news/headlin...rs-combine.htm

Also, Nick Canepa of the UT had this insight on AJ.



http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s12canepa.html

As far as Cromartie goes, he is pretty much the only high pick the Chargers have made based more on potential than substance. It's not like Cro didn't produce in college when he played and he got a good amount of PT his sophomore year rotating with the starters.

Naanee can't be included because he was a 5th round pick. You can afford to take a chance that late in the draft.

Merriman was a workout warrior no doubt, but he also had great production in college. Not only this, but he had experience as a rush LB in the Terps' scheme and was not new to dropping into coverage.

Phillips was also not drafted based off more potential than production. He led the Big 10 in sacks with 14.5 and tackles for loss with 23 his senior year. Converting to OLB was never a huge concern with him due to his lateral quickness and limited experience dropping back. His drafting also affirms the fact they don't look to deeply into workouts because he ran a 4.84 at the combine.




I wouldn't mind us drafting Parmele in the least, I just like Omon more. He also has very underrated speed, a lot like MT because I remember there being questions about his speed in 04'. It's not relevant, but Omon's career stats severely dwarf Parmele's. He ran for 1,500 yards for an NCAA record 4 consecutive seasons, although it was at NW Missouri St.

All of that is a long ways away from saying AJ almost never considers measurables. It sounds like they are saying they don't look into measurables alone, they take all the players attributes (production and performance in college/ Character/ Medical history/ Workouts) into account.

[UncleHulka]

Interesting stuff from Nix. Personally, I always thought the Chargers under AJ reached to draft workout warriors - Merriman, I-gor, VJ, Cromartie, and maybe even Davis come to mind... I guess it's refreshing to see that they view production and football IQ as paramount. If this is the trend, then look for them to grab that backup RB mid/late that put up numbers but didn't quite standout at the combine.

[defensiveback23]

Originally Posted by UncleHulka

Interesting stuff from Nix. Personally, I always thought the Chargers under AJ reached to draft workout warriors - Merriman, I-gor, VJ, Cromartie, and maybe even Davis come to mind... I guess it's refreshing to see that they view production and football IQ as paramount. If this is the trend, then look for them to grab that backup RB mid/late that put up numbers but didn't quite standout at the combine.

I can understand the others, but how was Merriman a reach? Workout warrior is a term reserved for players who show great athleticism but are underachievers on the field. All of them produced in college, even Cromartie in his soph year.

[KRS1]

Originally Posted by defensiveback23

I can understand the others, but how was Merriman a reach? Workout warrior is a term reserved for players who show great athleticism but are underachievers on the field. All of them produced in college, even Cromartie in his soph year.

Merriman was not a household name in college. He had great games but he was non-existent a lot of games as well. He was productive yes but his stock flew through the roof because of his workouts and his potential.

Cromartie produced some even but even as a sophomore he was spending a lot of time at receiver and as a return guy. His pick was based on almost completely his athleticism and his football IQ.

[defensiveback23]

Originally Posted by KRS1

Merriman was not a household name in college. He had great games but he was non-existent a lot of games as well. He was productive yes but his stock flew through the roof because of his workouts and his potential.

Cromartie produced some even but even as a sophomore he was spending a lot of time at receiver and as a return guy. His pick was based on almost completely his athleticism and his football IQ.

Being a household name has absolutely nothing to do with draft position. Virtually from the second Merriman declared he was being touted as a top 15 pick. Everybody knew how good of an athlete he was way before the combine and the reason he was a high pick is because he combined that athleticism with production. He was anything but a reach.

I never said Cromartie was picked off of production. People are quick to point out that he didn't produce in college, which he obviously didn't do a lot of, but he got a lot of playing time his sophomore when he rotated with the starters. He was All-ACC that year, not something given based off of potential. I have stated the obvious many times that Cromartie was selected off of potential, but it isn't like he did not produce.

[KRS1]

I don't think anyone said Merriman was a reach.

[defensiveback23]

Originally Posted by KRS1

I don't think anyone said Merriman was a reach.

I posted in this thread again because UncleHulka mentioned he thought AJ reached for talented players a lot and used Merriman as an example.

[UncleHulka]

Fair enough. Just substitute the word "reached" for whatever other verb you'd prefer. Still seems as if athletitcism is/was important to them, despite what they've said.

[DonWoods33]

Igor, Vince Jackson, and Cromartie could be considered reaches. The liked those guys, and took them a round, a half round earlier then earlier then most observers thought they would go. Merriman was expected to go in the 15-20 range and they took him 11th. It has also been said that they would have taken Troy Williamson, if Minn. had not taken him 8th in 05.
If it was all about college production, Danny Wuerful , and Rasham Salam would be in the Hall of Fame. It's a combination of both. Basically it comes down to the length of college production (and at what kind of school), along with the needed speed, and bulk, if the guy is tall thats a plus, of course he has to be tall enough to play certain positions. Think of a guy like Balmer, he's only done it for one year. It's hard to hang your hat on that, so teams shy away. Where they have succeeded is finding those guys with the right intangibles, along with the measurables.

[defensiveback23]

Originally Posted by UncleHulka

Fair enough. Just substitute the word "reached" for whatever other verb you'd prefer. Still seems as if athletitcism is/was important to them, despite what they've said.

I completely get what you're saying and there is definitely the possibility they are just saying they don't look into measureables as a smokescreen.

Originally Posted by DonWoods33

Igor, Vince Jackson, and Cromartie could be considered reaches. The liked those guys, and took them a round, a half round earlier then earlier then most observers thought they would go. Merriman was expected to go in the 15-20 range and they took him 11th. It has also been said that they would have taken Troy Williamson, if Minn. had not taken him 8th in 05.
If it was all about college production, Danny Wuerful , and Rasham Salam would be in the Hall of Fame. It's a combination of both. Basically it comes down to the length of college production (and at what kind of school), along with the needed speed, and bulk, if the guy is tall thats a plus, of course he has to be tall enough to play certain positions. Think of a guy like Balmer, he's only done it for one year. It's hard to hang your hat on that, so teams shy away. Where they have succeeded is finding those guys with the right intangibles, along with the measurables.

I agree, on top of those guys we also "reached" for Courtney Van Buren, Nick Hardwick, Buster Davis and Luis Castillo (I think there are a few others. It's no secret that when AJ really likes a prospect, he is not afraid to pick them before where they are expected to go.

I don't think Cromartie was could be classified a reach, more of a boom or bust, because I remember many draft publications/sites before the draft having him going to us or around the mid first. I distinctly remember virtually everywhere saying Merriman would go to Dallas at #11 right up until about a day before the draft when word slipped they liked Ware better. I also remember reading that the Chargers were actually planning on drafting Mark Clayton at 12 because they thought Merriman, Ware and Williamson among others would be gone.