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Old 03-18-2008, 04:34 PM    (permalink
Larry121283
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That is why the comments have been prefaced, when Ugoh played.

The disparity between Ugoh and Charlie Johnson was MASSIVE.

Ugoh played at a Tarik Glenn level...Charlie Johnson played like a backup at LT...
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Is that Mrs. Ugoh???
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Nope, hate the Colts...Jaguars fan...

however, I am starting to think you are Joe Thomas' fishing buddy and part time lover with the overreaction you had from saying that someone who had less penalties, less sacks allowed, and resulted in more rush yards per carry behind him was a better player..

logic kills the homer
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Nope, hate the Colts...Jaguars fan...

however, I am starting to think you are Joe Thomas' fishing buddy and part time lover with the overreaction you had from saying that someone who had less penalties, less sacks allowed, and resulted in more rush yards per carry behind him was a better player..

logic kills the homer
Didnt you say stats dont matter? I know who made the pro bowl and who didnt.....

This is what you wrote....
"Find a rookie who allowed only 1 sack while committing only 1 penalty all year on the left side like Ugoh, and you have yourself a cookie "

But you might as well said name me a tackle (in 11 games). Not "all year".

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Old 03-18-2008, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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LOL...find me one with a ratio like that, that saw significant action in 11 games...try 10...try 9, try 8, try 7...You can't find a starting tackle in the league, PERIOD with numbers like that from the spot...nevermind a rookie. And while the numbers aren't the be all and end all...they do give you a significant idea of what kind of player he is...

If you've ever played offensive line or any blocking position...coaches as you not to make mistakes, don't miss your block/assignment, and don't let your QB get hit. If you do all of those things...you are of the best.

Any player who allowed 1 sack in 11 games from the LT position is a stud, period. It gives you generally, a good idea of what kind of pass blocker he is.

Then you look at the numbers of rush yards behind the LT, that gives you an idea of what kind of run blocker he is (the "what if he had long runs" argument doesn't hold weight since the number stops at 10 yards per carry)...

Put them together with seeing a player that allowed his team to not miss a beat away from an All-Pro veteran tackle, and that tells me that Ugoh is not only good, but excellent. And last year, in the games he played, outplayed Joe Thomas.

I said stats don't matter when you also use your own two eyes to evaluate...more often than not, stats usually = what you see...

I won't continue the bickering, because you are just going to come back and say "Tony Ugoh didn't play a full season...so, he gets no credit" or something lame like that.

Remind me to avoid intelligent discussion with you in the future.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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I think anyone who says the Jets line can be the best is underrating the chemistry aspect of the OL. No matter how amazing the players are, it will take time to gel.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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I think anyone who says the Jets line can be the best is underrating the chemistry aspect of the OL. No matter how amazing the players are, it will take time to gel.
I agree but.....

Joe Thomas was a rookie
Eric Steinbach was in his first year with the team
Hank Fraley was in his 2nd
Ryan Tucker had never played RG in his life
Kevin Shaffer was allways a LT before training camp and moved to RT

And they seemed to jell just fine. Hopefully it only gets better this year.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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I agree but.....

Joe Thomas was a rookie
Eric Steinbach was in his first year with the team
Hank Fraley was in his 2nd
Ryan Tucker had never played RG in his life
Kevin Shaffer was allways a LT before training camp and moved to RT

And they seemed to jell just fine. Hopefully it only gets better this year.

very true, but that line is more the exception to the rule than the norm. I think that more speaks to the great ability of whoever the Browns OL coach is than to question the validity of an OL needing time to gel. Sometimes you just get lucky, I wouldnt expect the Jets to be so fortunate. Maybe they will be, and then you would have to move them up the rankings, but for now I dont think they can be put at the top.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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very true, but that line is more the exception to the rule than the norm. I think that more speaks to the great ability of whoever the Browns OL coach is than to question the validity of an OL needing time to gel. Sometimes you just get lucky, I wouldnt expect the Jets to be so fortunate. Maybe they will be, and then you would have to move them up the rankings, but for now I dont think they can be put at the top.
Funny you brought up our OL coach. He was previously the OL coach of the Texans for the main years where they gave up NFL record leading sack totals. When the Browns hired him many fans were angry (lack of knowledge?). This year was his first with the Browns and it apears he did very well. Poor Texans?
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Funny you brought up our OL coach. He was previously the OL coach of the Texans for the main years where they gave up NFL record leading sack totals. When the Browns hired him many fans were angry (lack of knowledge?). This year was his first with the Browns and it apears he did very well. Poor Texans?
shocking what talent can do for a coach's reputation.....
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Worst to first, I do not think so. Mangold is a top tier center but brick has aways to go at LOT. Woodie has little rubber on the tracks. Middle of the pack at best.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Jacksonville's line is underrated.

Every starter from last year's outstanding unit returns, and Mo Williams is situated so he can play at RG again, where his play improved immensely over how he did at RT.

Khalif Barnes, solid and still has upside
Manuwai, the best offensive lineman in the NFL that you haven't heard of
Meester, who has quietly has been a top-5 center for several years now
Mo Williams, who played at a pro-bowl level inside last year
Tony Pashos, the next Jon Runyan.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Well Pashos must have improved dramatically because in Baltimore he sucked until his contract year when he was average.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Vikings
4. Green Bay
5. Colts
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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Homer alert, but I think I'd have to go with the Cowboys. Three pro bowlers and a pretty good Right Tackle in Colombo. Kosier isn't very good, but he doesn't kill you.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Vikings
4. Green Bay
5. Colts

I'd put us on the list... You don't win the superbowl against the 2nd team in sacks with an avg o-line.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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NO! Woody at RT and who ever is at RG..Horrible right side. Will Faneca help Brick out Yes but it will not make him live up to the hype he had coming out of college.

Faneca play fell off big time last year..
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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no doubt johnson was worse but i saw ugoh a few times last season and he looked woeful, maybe not giving up sacks but he gives up pressure and hits seemingly at will. for people to even consider that he was on joe thomas' level is laughable imo
And The first game of last season Joe Thomas was involved in giving up 3 sacks.

One of which Ryan Clark beat him one on one and another where James Farrior literally RAN HIM OVER.

Obviously Joe Thomas will never give up a pressure, and has 2x the push in the run game that Ugoh Has.

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Old 04-02-2008, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Well Pashos must have improved dramatically because in Baltimore he sucked until his contract year when he was average.
He did. He played poorly the first few games, but over the second half of the season, he was amazing. He and Mo Williams were just road grading people.
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Thomas>Ugoh, unquestionably.

Not a lot of respect for the Chargers going on in this thread: McNeill, Dielman, and Hardwick are all pro bowlers. Goff is a veteran, and the real problem child of the group, Shane Olivea, got cut and his replacement Clary did very well.

Is it top 5? They had some breakdowns early last year and everyone seems to have written them off. The O-line getting their **** together is a main reason the Chargers turned their season around, kept Rivers upright, and collected another division championship and an appearance in the AFCCG.

Blocking for the rushing leader two years in a row ain't bad either, especially considering LT's historic production.

No disrespect, but I'd take this group over the Jets anyday. The Browns too.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Vikings do, in my opinion.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Considering we have Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Hank Fraley, Ryan Tucker, and Kevin Shaffer starting with sick depth in Rex Hadnot, Seth McKinney, and Lennie Friedman, it is clear that the Browns line is great and even better than last year with Hadnot in the fold and Joe Thomas being a year more experienced after a pro bowl rookie season. Minnesota has a killer line, but the right side of their unit isn't that great and their depth isn't that great either compared to some lines. I think New England is still the best line after how dominant they were last year even though they did get beat by the Giants' front four in the big game.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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And The first game of last season Joe Thomas was involved in giving up 3 sacks.

One of which Ryan Clark beat him one on one and another where James Farrior literally RAN HIM OVER.

Obviously Joe Thomas will never give up a pressure, and has 2x the push in the run game that Ugoh Has.

LOL you bring up thomas' first game but don't mention how ugoh got manhandled all day by will smith in his.

oh and i never said that thomas never gives up pressure only that he was the most impressive rookie tackle
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Thomas gave up 2 sacks his whole rookie year. The sacks in the Pittsburgh game were not his fault. Charlie Frye sucks. Joe was fine in his first game, Derek Anderson came in and no pressure at all.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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I am going to make a thread called "What team is the best at each position?" we will talk about what team is #1 @ QB, RB, FB, WR, TE, OLine, DLine, LB, CB, S, K, P.
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