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Old 03-24-2008, 01:09 PM    (permalink
DonWoods33
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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
Wow your really reaching there.
Isn't he though? People are putting a question mark next to Merriman, and he brings up Dummervil? Hell Richard Dent hardly has a snowballs chance of getting a nod, and he was the greatest situational pass rusher ever.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10 View Post
I wouldn't say Harry Carson got in no problem. He waited a long long time. And hopefully Curtis Martin has to wait. He shouldn't get in right away. It really has nothing to do with playing in NY. Rod Woodson will be in first ballot, I don't think you have to worry about that. He just isn't eligible yet.
You have guys like Tommy Nobis, Randy Gradsihar, Robert Brazile, all them guys are impact players, all better the Carson, and they ain't in. Of course they didn't play in NY either. So don't even say it doesn't matter. Furthermore it took guys like Lem Barney, and Jimmy Johnson (the CB not the coach) nearly two decades after their retirements to get in. But you can be an average Running Back, Quarterback, or Wide Receiver and it's not a problem.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DonWoods33 View Post
You have guys like Tommy Nobis, Randy Gradsihar, Robert Brazile, all them guys are impact players, all better the Carson, and they ain't in. Of course they didn't play in NY either. So don't even say it doesn't matter. Furthermore it took guys like Lem Barney, and Jimmy Johnson (the CB not the coach) nearly two decades after their retirements to get in. But you can be an average Running Back, Quarterback, or Wide Receiver and it's not a problem.
Well I think Gradishar should have gotten in this past season over some of the guys who did. However I think you are slighting Harry Carson by suggesting he is in over those guys because he played in NY. It isn't like there are a ton of guys from those championship teams who made the HOF just because they played for NY. Just him and Taylor. And he did wait 14 or 15 years himself.
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Old 03-24-2008, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Well I think Gradishar should have gotten in this past season over some of the guys who did. However I think you are slighting Harry Carson by suggesting he is in over those guys because he played in NY. It isn't like there are a ton of guys from those championship teams who made the HOF just because they played for NY. Just him and Taylor. And he did wait 14 or 15 years himself.
I am not slighting the guy. He was great player. Banks, and Marshall were real good players on the defense as well. My main beef is with the whole selection deal. Look I am Chargers fan, but I am not sure if Charlie Joiner belongs in, and Fouts he never won anything significant, but he gets in on the first ballot. Meanwhile elite DBs and other guys wait and wait. Actually my biggest beef is with Warren Moon, and Steve Largent getting in. Sure they got the numbers, but Moon was never great in the playoffs, and Largent was nothing special. Largent was Gary Garrison, but he got to the NFL at the right time. And no one even knows who Garrison is.
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Old 03-24-2008, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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it's amazing you don't even mention Fred Taylor's name when you named Runningbacks...he's has a helluva better chance than Steven Jackson at this point...
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Old 03-24-2008, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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it's amazing you don't even mention Fred Taylor's name when you named Runningbacks...he's has a helluva better chance than Steven Jackson at this point...
Well of course he does based on stats right now. I was attempting to look into the crystal ball a little bit. I like Taylor, but it's debatable whether he was ever a top 5 back in the NFL at any point in his career.
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Old 03-24-2008, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure his string of 1300 yards or more earlier in his career would classify him as a top 5 back...hell, one could argue he was a top 5 back this season...his rookie season he rushed for 1400 yards and 12 touchdowns....
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone has said Derrick Brooks yet. What is up with you people saying that these guys that have been in leauge for less than five years are gonna make the HOF. If have 2 or 3 monster seasons does not mean that they're gonna any where near the HOF. Eli Manning, he won one Super Bowl so he should be in HOF? Might as well put Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer in there too then. Elvis Dummervill and Amobi Okoye, WOW, they have a combined three years in the NFL... great joke man!
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by indyfan1985 View Post
What are you talkin about? Sanders is arguably the best safety along with Reed and if he wins another Defensive MVP which is very possible since he is only 26, he will be in a class of his own with Reed atop the NFL safties. This defense has plenty to root for, since it is the FASTEST D IN THE LEAGUE!
I'm sorry, but Sanders did not deserve the DPOY. Its kinda ridiculous in my eyes he won it when a guy by the name of Champ Bailey didn't win it the 2 times he should have.
And Sanders does not deserve HOF, like I've said before, Steve Atwater was a premier safety in the league and nobody talks about him being in the HOF. Atwater was a top 5 safety virtually every year.

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Originally Posted by JagHombre22 View Post
it's amazing you don't even mention Fred Taylor's name when you named Runningbacks...he's has a helluva better chance than Steven Jackson at this point...
Because he was never elite, just benefited by performing "pretty good" for a number of years.

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Originally Posted by nfrillman View Post
Well of course he does based on stats right now. I was attempting to look into the crystal ball a little bit. I like Taylor, but it's debatable whether he was ever a top 5 back in the NFL at any point in his career.
I agree, when I look at a potential HOFer, I want to see him be elite, one of the top backs in the league during his playing days, and Taylor was not.

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I'm sure his string of 1300 yards or more earlier in his career would classify him as a top 5 back...hell, one could argue he was a top 5 back this season...his rookie season he rushed for 1400 yards and 12 touchdowns....
1 Pro Bowl season, 1 All Pro season. Thats it. He had 3, maybe 4 good seasons, but other than that, I would say "average" by backs these days.
But in nearly every season, he was outclassed by better RB's putting up bigger numbers because they were better.
And also, he has had a small number of touchdowns. 10 years, 65ish touchdowns I believe. Terrell Davis had 60 in 4 seasons. Really shows you how great TD was.
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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hell, one could argue he was a top 5 back this season...
LaDainian Tomlinson
Adrian Peterson
Brian Westbrook
Jamal Lewis
Willis McGahee
Joseph Addai
Ryan Grant

Who was Fred Taylor better than on that list in 2007?
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
LaDainian Tomlinson
Adrian Peterson
Brian Westbrook
Jamal Lewis
Willis McGahee
Joseph Addai
Ryan Grant

Who was Fred Taylor better than on that list in 2007?
I hope that your not implying that all of those RBs are going to make the hall of fame.
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, but Sanders did not deserve the DPOY. Its kinda ridiculous in my eyes he won it when a guy by the name of Champ Bailey didn't win it the 2 times he should have.
Champ Bailey? Seriously? Are you a Broncos fan or something? I understand an argument for Albert Haynesworth or maybe even Jared Allen, but Champ Bailey? He's a CB, and while he does take away one WR from the offense MOST of the time (not all the time like Deion Sanders, just most of the time), all teams had to do against the Broncos last year was run the ball and they'd be victorious. They had NOTHING upfront. That's part of the reason Bob won the DPOY. The Colts' run defense improved by about 1 YPC and 75 YPG this past season, the pass defense was one of, if not the, best in the NFL at keeping opponents from completing 20+ yard passes, and the defense as a whole allowed the fewest points in the NFL. Who on the Colts' defense would have the most influence on all 3 of those categories?

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And Sanders does not deserve HOF, like I've said before, Steve Atwater was a premier safety in the league and nobody talks about him being in the HOF. Atwater was a top 5 safety virtually every year.
Well, it's a bit too early to determine that (although 2 Pro Bowl appearances, 2 All-Pro selections, and 1 DPOY (one of 2 current NFL safeties to win the award) in 4 NFL seasons is a nice start toward that goal), however being a top 5 safety year in and out doesn't necessarily mean that player should be a HOFer. A good comparison would be teammate Rod Smith, who was consistently one of the best WRs in the NFL. Is he HOF worthy? I don't think so.
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I hope that your not implying that all of those RBs are going to make the hall of fame.
I was objecting to the one line that I quoted. Fred Taylor was not by any stretch of the imagination a top 5 RB in the NFL in 2007. Reading the post can help sometimes.
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Willie Anderson has a shot, been the best RT in the league for some time now.
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Gonzo will be.
Yeah where is Gonzo on that list?
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I really think the Hall of Fame is harder to get into than some of you think. They are pretty selective. That said, here is my best guess to the current Hall of Famers.

QB
Tom Brady
Brett Favre (Ok, technically he's not active anymore)
Peyton Manning

RB
Edgerrin James (I think has a little more work to do, but I think he'll get there)
LaDainian Tomlinson

WR
Isaac Bruce (Not sure he's a lock like some others do, but he should get in)
Marvin Harrison
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens

TE
Tony Gonzalez

OL
Larry Allen
Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace (Will voters forget about him if he continues to get injured?)
Will Shields

DL
Warren Sapp (I guess, like Favre, he's technically not active anymore)
Michael Strahan

LB
Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher (If he retired today, not sure he'd get in. But I think he'll do enough to get there)

DB
Champ Bailey


I think some guys like Torry Holt and Ed Reed still have to continue to produce to get on the list, but you never know.
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I really think the Hall of Fame is harder to get into than some of you think. They are pretty selective. That said, here is my best guess to the current Hall of Famers.

QB
Tom Brady
Brett Favre (Ok, technically he's not active anymore)
Peyton Manning

RB
Edgerrin James (I think has a little more work to do, but I think he'll get there)
LaDainian Tomlinson

WR
Isaac Bruce (Not sure he's a lock like some others do, but he should get in)
Marvin Harrison
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens

TE
Tony Gonzalez

OL
Larry Allen
Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace (Will voters forget about him if he continues to get injured?)
Will Shields

DL
Warren Sapp (I guess, like Favre, he's technically not active anymore)
Michael Strahan

LB
Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher (If he retired today, not sure he'd get in. But I think he'll do enough to get there)

DB
Champ Bailey


I think some guys like Torry Holt and Ed Reed still have to continue to produce to get on the list, but you never know.
You forgot Dawkins?
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Why do people think Issac Bruce is a lock? His career is a perfect example of longevity creating what appears to be a great resume. Issac Bruce is the Curtis Martin of WRs.
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Champ Bailey? Seriously? Are you a Broncos fan or something? I understand an argument for Albert Haynesworth or maybe even Jared Allen, but Champ Bailey? He's a CB, and while he does take away one WR from the offense MOST of the time (not all the time like Deion Sanders, just most of the time), all teams had to do against the Broncos last year was run the ball and they'd be victorious. They had NOTHING upfront. That's part of the reason Bob won the DPOY. The Colts' run defense improved by about 1 YPC and 75 YPG this past season, the pass defense was one of, if not the, best in the NFL at keeping opponents from completing 20+ yard passes, and the defense as a whole allowed the fewest points in the NFL. Who on the Colts' defense would have the most influence on all 3 of those categories?
I wasn't referring to this past season for Champ, but his 2005 and 2006 seasons. 2006 was probably the best season a CB has ever had in over a decade. It was amazing how well he was playing. 2005, he practically won 3 games for the Broncos. Thats incredible for a CB.
And see, Champ Bailey played as big a role for the Broncos defenses that you say Bob Sanders plays for the Colts.
I know some may think I'm foolish for saying this, but I really think the whole East Coast bias came into effect the past 2 years for the award.
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Old 03-30-2008, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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LaDainian Tomlinson
Adrian Peterson
Brian Westbrook
Jamal Lewis
Willis McGahee
Joseph Addai
Ryan Grant

Who was Fred Taylor better than on that list in 2007?
The last four.
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MJD is an exception to every rule.
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Old 03-30-2008, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NY+Giants=NYG is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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I would if winning a superbowl would have made a difference on Strahan making it or not. I know it helps, but if one had to quantify it, I wonder how much winning a superbowl helps him with the hall of fame.
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:47 PM    (permalink
Burns336
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I don't understand how a majority of the "These guys are 100% sure fire" posts don't have T.O. on them.

5th most TD's all time
2nd most among receivers
Still going strong.

You can say he's an ass, but there is no way he doesn't make it in. Have you seen the receivers who have made it in? Art Monk, are you kidding me?
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:47 AM    (permalink
bucpimpin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-L View Post
I really think the Hall of Fame is harder to get into than some of you think. They are pretty selective. That said, here is my best guess to the current Hall of Famers.

QB
Tom Brady
Brett Favre (Ok, technically he's not active anymore)
Peyton Manning

RB
Edgerrin James (I think has a little more work to do, but I think he'll get there)
LaDainian Tomlinson

WR
Isaac Bruce (Not sure he's a lock like some others do, but he should get in)
Marvin Harrison
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens

TE
Tony Gonzalez

OL
Larry Allen
Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace (Will voters forget about him if he continues to get injured?)
Will Shields

DL
Warren Sapp (I guess, like Favre, he's technically not active anymore)
Michael Strahan

LB
Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher (If he retired today, not sure he'd get in. But I think he'll do enough to get there)

DB
Champ Bailey


I think some guys like Torry Holt and Ed Reed still have to continue to produce to get on the list, but you never know.
What about Derrick Brooks?
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.the dude is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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morten andersen?
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:10 PM    (permalink
BengalsPwn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfrillman View Post
Yeah, I was thinking that LJ is a tad old too, I probably should have put him on the bubble.

I think Edgerrin James will be hurt because of his years in Arizona. What I mean by that is that those years are revealing that he is not nearly as good as what his stats in Indianapolis would indicate. Throughout his entire career in Indy he wasn't the guy the defense geared up to stop. That makes things a lot easier.
Are you serious? He was the NFL's leading rusher his first 2 seasons in the league till he had his string of injuries then made a nice come back to a pro bowl level before going to zona. He is still putting up nice numbers behind a terrible line. Peyton Manning wasn't the key to Edge exploding his first 2 years. Why do people think Peyton has been GOD his whole career, granted his a lock to the HOF but he has had his career tailor made for him, had his franchise LT and WR there in place when he got there, plus then has just added weapon after weapon for him with Edge and Wayne. It took them so many years to be good bc they spent so much time handing him the world.
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