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Old 03-26-2008, 12:20 AM    (permalink
thebow305
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Default For BBC (And all other Jake Long to Miami supporters)

Just found this in Armando Salguero's blog on the Miami Herald website, titled: Dolphins in Depth

http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/

It is the last entry on this page so you have to scroll down quite a bit.


Written on Friday, March 14th


Dolphins not paying great attention to Jake Long


Just got off the phone with a source who was at Jake Long's pro day today in Michigan.

For those of you excited about him being the possible first overall pick to the Dolphins ... I would chill on that idea.

The Dolphins had one representative at the workout today. The St. Louis Rams, who pick second in the draft and believe they have to find someone to replace Orlando Pace, had about a dozen pairs of eyes on Long's work.

[SATURDAY UPDATE: As has been the talk on this thread, Long will work for the Dolphins in a private screening, so to speak. So will Matt Ryan, so will Chris Long and perhaps others. That of itself is not an indication Miami will pick him.]

Long did not run Friday. He simply did position-related drills. If you're a Dolphins fan, it shouldn't matter what he did. He is not the pick.

Look, this is a good draft for offensive tackles. The Dolphins have a need in that they don't have a right tackle. If you believe they're moving Vernon Carey back to right tackle, something the Dolphins have not confirmed, they don't have a left tackle.

But the fact is they can still draft a tackle with the first pick of the second round and fill the position. The fact is they can live with Carey at LT and let the rookie play RT. The fact is this deep tackle class might offer a LT in the second round. The fact is Bill Parcells has not traditionally spent high picks on offensive linemen.

The fact is if Tony Sparano is as good a line coach as everyone says, they can find a diamond in the rough after the first pick and turn him into a diamond on the line. The fact is Jake Long, for all his gifts, is not a No. 1 overall pick type of talent.

By the way, Long is still a pretty good player. He was penalized for a holding once as a redshirt freshman and had one false start as a senior. But that didn't mean he didn't cheat a little.

“Absolutely. I’ll admit that I hold,” Long said with a laugh at the first day of the NFL scouting combine last month. “I’ll get my hands inside and hide it that I’m holding.”

The Rams will be thrilled. Your thoughts?


Doesn't sound like we are real interested, compared to some of the other prospects out there. I know this is not REAL definitive, but it is SOMETHING.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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it is an opinion piece by him but that is what he often does if you follow his writing.

I can see his points but I dont feel Chris long is near a number 1 overall talent and Jake long's talent and potential is far better still then Chris'
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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it is an opinion piece by him but that is what he often does if you follow his writing.

I can see his points but I dont feel Chris long is near a number 1 overall talent and Jake long's talent and potential is far better still then Chris'
Is that a joke? Jake Long isn't even a complete player, he will be a RT in the NFL, probably a pretty good one, but would be a very average LT. Chris Long can play about every position on the defensive line, plus outside linebacker and play it very well, at a VERY HIGH level. He is the safest pick in the draft, if I was to go another direction I would say Gholston has far more potential than Jake too. Who's the only person Jake couldn't stop in his career? Vernon Gholston. And he will have to play against elite talent like that every week. People tend not to make a big deal about that, which is a HUGE mistake. I'm happy for him that he was able to dominate all the other average college DE's, but when he went against Gholston, an NFL calibre DE, he got abused. The pick has to be Chris Long or Gholston, anything else would be a mistake, especially Jake Long.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Thanks for the post Bow but I read that article the day It came out. I even post on Armando's blog. It was just an opinion and the dude doesnt have connections worth squat. He didnt even know that the Phins had a private workout scheduled for him until someone brought it to his attention. His so called source advised him that the Phins only had two scouts there but failed to mention that there is a private workout already scheduled for him where the entire brass will put him through there own workout. There was no need for them to be there since they already evaluted him at the combine and knew he wasnt going to be doing much. I do appreciate the headline on the blog though made out to me :-) made me feel special thanks. HAHAHAHA
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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People posting on his blog made him feel soooo stupid that he had to post a saturday update to his garbage opinion.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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We are missing our entire left side of an offensive line. We are probably going to have two young QB's and a journeyman. I dont think there is anyway we make it out of the 1st round without taking an offensive lineman. Especially with them projecting to take QB in the 2nd round. Wether it's Jake Long or a trade down for Ryan Clady...One of them has to be the pick. Trade seeming unlikely at this point so Jake Long is still going to be my favorite.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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And he will have to play against elite talent like that every week. People tend not to make a big deal about that, which is a HUGE mistake. I'm happy for him that he was able to dominate all the other average college DE's, but when he went against Gholston, an NFL calibre DE, he got abused. The pick has to be Chris Long or Gholston, anything else would be a mistake, especially Jake Long.
Giving up one sack means getting abused? And by "average college DEs" you mean guys um, I don't know, Anthony Spencer? Derrick Harvey? Lawrence Jackson? Tamba Hali? Jonal Saint-Dic? Brian Robison? Tim Crowder? Because Long played against all of those mediocre DEs, and shut them all down.

Ryan Clady gave up 8-9 sacks this year, but I don't hear anyone questioning his ability to play LT. What's with the Long hate?
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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I cant even tell you where all this Long hate comes from. He ranks as the #2 rated player in this draft on many boards either behind the likes of Darren McFadden or Chris Long but yet everyone says how slow he will be or how he is type casted as a RT. Now dont get me wrong if we didnt have just one offensive tackle on the roster I would be all for getting C. Long or Gholston. But the fact is we need to protect the QB and we need to grab the best offensive lineman on the board. Jake Long can easily be justified as being the #1 pick much like everyone easily justifies him going #2 to the Rams.

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Old 03-26-2008, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I cant even tell you where all this Long hate comes from. He ranks as the #2 rated player in this draft on many boards either behind the likes of Darren McFadden or Chris Long but yet everyone says how slow he will be or how he is type casted as a RT. Now dont get me wrong if we didnt have just one offensive tackle on the roster I would be all for getting C. Long or Gholston. But the fact is we need to protect the QB and we need to grab the best offensive lineman on the board. Jake Long can easily be justified as being the #1 pick much like everyone easily justifies him going #2 to the Rams.
Yes Long had a better college career then Clady. No questions asked. Long was a stud in college. However, the players are picked in the draft based on their upside for the future just as much as for their play in college. Jake Long is a stud but does he have as much of a ceiling as Clady? I have my doubts. Also while Long did protect against some very solid DE in his days at UM, I also don't think he ever had to go against a Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, Osi Umenyora or Jerad Allen. Those are the type of guys that Jake will face at the next level. Who knows how he handles that.

There's no doubt in my mind that Jake will be a solid starting LT in the NFL. But with the number 1 pick, I don't want a solid starting LT. I want a Walter Jones. And while I would be ok with a Flozell Adams type, a guy who makes a few Pro Bowls and is good thru his entire career, I'm not sure Jake can even reach that level at LT. I see him having a Matt Light type of career, and Matt Light is not a number 1 type of pick in anyway shape or form in my eyes. He's solid and dependable but he has his lapses and struggles at times. That's what I think we'll see out of Jake Long at LT.

With Clady, I see differently. He's not a sure bet to have a solid career like Jake is. He could end up being a big bust because he does need some work. But I think he has the potential to be a Flozell Adams or Bryant McKinnie. He can turn into one of the leagues best OT and make a few Pro Bowls. He's my favorite OT in this draft and I think he has much better upside and a much better return on our investment. I'd be ok with either of those guys in the 3-8 range tho and we really can't go wrong either way, but I'm not sure I like either of them enough to take them number 1 overall.

With all that said, I wouldn't take Jake Long at number 1 overall, but it's definately not the worst pick we could make.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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joey I guess we can respectfully agree to disagree :)

Personally most folks on here know by now that I have wanted for a few years now to see that oline built up. I feel it is one of the fundamental flaws of the team that it has been continously dressed over.


Now I will concede even though this opinion piece doesnt really talk much of it that traditionally parcells takes defense first.

If you look at his draft history he will rarely take the offensive player in the first round, he would rather take the defense.



Imo Chris long is another Matt Roth a nice player for the 4-3 system but in the 3-4 system he would be out of place. He will need to fit himself to the system (aka dropping the weight which helps him get the leverage) and then you need to "project him" to that position as he is not a 3-4 standup and coverage able OLB in college.


If we are assuming we dont trade down the pick has 2 players it must be Gholston or Jake Long.

in my eyes Jake Long is the pick that is smarter in this instance. I feel he is a legit number 1 left tackle that could be an anchor for the next decade for us. Our next richmond Webb
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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it should be noted as well that every superbowl this franchise has been to has had a HoF Olineman upon the line.

It is not merely a coincidence
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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it should be noted as well that every superbowl this franchise has been to has had a HoF Olineman upon the line.

It is not merely a coincidence
Yes, but I sincerely doubt Jake Long will be a HOFer. That is the point here, most think he is NOT worth the top pick in this draft, solely because he will never be an ELITE NFL Left Tacle. This guy is no Richmond Webb, and to even put him in the same company is disgraceful. He will not be our pick, just forget about it, Parcells is smarter than that.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I think I will let the scouts and GM's for the fins decide whom is best for there. There are plenty out there that feel he is worth the top pick and is an elite talent.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Here's a fun fact. Since 1970, there has only been 1 OL drafted number 1 overall (Orlando Pace). There has only been 2 OL drafted number overall in the modern era starting in 1936.

On the flip side, there have been 6 DEs drafted number 1 overall since 1970.

Quaterback is far and away the most often drafted position at number 1 overall but DE is tied with RB for the 2nd most drafted position.

The only position that gets drafted less at number 1 overall then OL is DB.

It's pretty clear that history shows OT does not hold good value at the top of drafts. Pass rushers on the other hand have more value then just about every other spot on the field.

Given Parcells history of taking OL later in drafts, his history of taking Defense early and often and the history of the NFL for valuing Pass Rushers over OTs, I think it's pretty safe to say that Jake Long will not be the number 1 pick.

Not to mention, Jake Long is not the best player in this draft.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Here's a fun fact. Since 1970, there has only been 1 OL drafted number 1 overall (Orlando Pace). There has only been 2 OL drafted number overall in the modern era starting in 1936.

On the flip side, there have been 6 DEs drafted number 1 overall since 1970.

Quaterback is far and away the most often drafted position at number 1 overall but DE is tied with RB for the 2nd most drafted position.

The only position that gets drafted less at number 1 overall then OL is DB.

It's pretty clear that history shows OT does not hold good value at the top of drafts. Pass rushers on the other hand have more value then just about every other spot on the field.

Given Parcells history of taking OL later in drafts, his history of taking Defense early and often and the history of the NFL for valuing Pass Rushers over OTs, I think it's pretty safe to say that Jake Long will not be the number 1 pick.

Not to mention, Jake Long is not the best player in this draft.
Thank you. Finally... some good info there for all these Jake Long lovers. He wont be the pick, get over it already guys!
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Thank you. Finally... some good info there for all these Jake Long lovers. He wont be the pick, get over it already guys!

The one thing I cant get over is the fact that we are going to miss out on the top 5-6 offensive lineman in this draft if we dont secure one with our 1st pick. That is what I cant over. The offensive line is in total shambles but we are going to pick a guy at a position of strength while we allow our QB's to continue to get trounced leaving our defense to fend half the field. That was the problem last year. Now if we control the clock and keep the defense off the field then I guarantee you that the defense returns back to the 2006 form when they where top 5-10. Let alone with projections of us taking a QB with the top 2nd round pick that would leave us with the 8th or 9th rated offensive line prospect left on the board. Why should we gamble again on taking a late round pick on the offensive line when we can get the best one in this draft. Not only the best one but a top 5 rated player in this draft not only just the offensive line. If our offensive line was secure I wouldnt think twice about taking Chris Long or Vernon but we need to protect our QB. Jake Long is a power running offensive lineman and with Ronnie and Ricky that is what we need to start concentrating on to protect our QB and keep the defense well rested.

LT Jake Long LG?????? C Samson Satele RG Justin Smiley RT Vernon Carey

I'am telling you we will pound the ball down peoples throat with that offensive line much like old school Giants football when Jumbo Elliott was leading the way. Jake Long is hands down the best run blocker in this draft and any deficiencies he has with pass blocking will be worked on by Tony Sparano. As a rookie head coach let his 1st pick be a position he is familiar with.
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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The one thing I cant get over is the fact that we are going to miss out on the top 5-6 offensive lineman in this draft if we dont secure one with our 1st pick. That is what I cant over. The offensive line is in total shambles but we are going to pick a guy at a position of strength while we allow our QB's to continue to get trounced leaving our defense to fend half the field. That was the problem last year. Now if we control the clock and keep the defense off the field then I guarantee you that the defense returns back to the 2006 form when they where top 5-10. Let alone with projections of us taking a QB with the top 2nd round pick that would leave us with the 8th or 9th rated offensive line prospect left on the board. Why should we gamble again on taking a late round pick on the offensive line when we can get the best one in this draft. Not only the best one but a top 5 rated player in this draft not only just the offensive line. If our offensive line was secure I wouldnt think twice about taking Chris Long or Vernon but we need to protect our QB. Jake Long is a power running offensive lineman and with Ronnie and Ricky that is what we need to start concentrating on to protect our QB and keep the defense well rested.

LT Jake Long LG?????? C Samson Satele RG Justin Smiley RT Vernon Carey

I'am telling you we will pound the ball down peoples throat with that offensive line much like old school Giants football when Jumbo Elliott was leading the way. Jake Long is hands down the best run blocker in this draft and any deficiencies he has with pass blocking will be worked on by Tony Sparano. As a rookie head coach let his 1st pick be a position he is familiar with.
Dude, I've seen you write that same expect post with that same exact OL combo like 3403824092380 times. Care to contribute something new?

I mean serious dude, your beating a dead horse.

You keep saying that if we miss Jake Long we will only get the 6-7 best OL in the draft. But this draft is very deep in OL talent. Getting the 6-7 OL in this draft is like like the 3rd OL in any other draft. The value of OL in round 2 is out of this damn planet this season.

You keep looking at the number and position of the player we are drafting instead of the quality of player. Jake Long is not the quality of player that you need to take at number 1 overall but guys like guys like Gosder Cherilus, Carl Nicks, Chilo Rachal, Sam Baker are all better prospects then Joe Staley who was a 1st rounder last season.

That's the problem with Jake Long. If you take him you are getting absolutely horrible value for your pick. He is not the best talent in the draft, hell he might not even be a top 3 talent in the draft. OT do not hold good value in the top of drafts, and we would be getting huge value taking an OT in round 2.

You wanna draft Jake Long just to say we got our need filled with the best guy. That never works. Reaching for players early in drafts are to fill needs will kill your team. You have to sit back and make your own evaluation and draft who you think is the best overall player in the draft.

Houston was deseprate for the RB a couple years ago, but he graded out to them as a worse prospect then Mario Williams. Look how that panned out. You need to take the best talent at number 1 overall, plain and simple. You with this draft your looking at Chris Long, Darren McFadden and Vernon Gholston. Jake Long is number 4 on that list.

Please, please, stop repeating the same tied info about Jake Long over and over and over again. It's annoying already. We get it, you want a good OL. So do we all, there are better ways to fix our OL then to reach with the number 1 overall pick.

You are completely closeminded, you think Jake Long is the only way we will have a good OL next year and getting one track minded like that is bad for our team. You have to look at other options.

BTW, you called our pass rush a position of strength? Dud you watch a single game last season?
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Old 03-29-2008, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Beating a dead horse????? Joey dont you think that your Chris Long and Vernon Gholston arguments are beating a dead horse. I voice my opinion on what I beleive but yet you attack my argument every chance you get. I put up a very good argument that many experts care to share my same opinion including the person you get to post on his forums. Then you care to mention quality of player. Well go ahead and ask Scott or some of the many of experts and scouts who do this for a living and most of them if not all will tell you that Jake Long is a top 5 rated player in this draft and is at the same level with the Chris Long's and Vernon Gholston's of the world.

Our very own Scott Wright's Ranking board

Player Class Position School
1. Darren McFadden JR RB Arkansas
Elite talent who is destined to become one of the league's top rushers.
2. Jake Long SR OT Michigan
A left tackle who is not quite Joe Thomas but is better than Levi Brown.

3. Chris Long SR DE Virginia
Technician who plays the run and pass and has an unparalleled motor.
4. Glenn Dorsey SR DT L.S.U.
Simply one of the best defensive tackle prospects we've seen in years.
5. Vernon Gholston JR DE Ohio St.
Versatile pass rusher extraordinaire and also a rare physical specimen

Scouts Inc.'s Top 32Player Pos. School Grade
1. Darren McFadden RB Arkansas 99
2. Chris Long DE Virginia 98
3. Jake Long OT Michigan 98
4. Glenn Dorsey DT LSU 98
5. Matt Ryan QB Boston Coll. 98
6. Sedrick Ellis DT USC 97
7. Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State 96

I like this board even better by the good folks at scout's inc who have Long rated at 98. So taking him over C.Long who is at 98 or Gholston who is a 96 projects for a poor value once again as you stated.

Top 50 Pro Prospects for the NFL Draft ’08

* underclassmen - March Post NFL Combine ‘08


1. Matt Ryan - QB - 6’4” 220 lbs. - Boston College
Savvy pocket QB retains his top ranking in this talented class since last fall. He looks to impress at his pro day throwing the ball to be the #1 overall prospect this April.

2. Chris Long - DE - 6’5” 285 lbs. - Virginia
Athletic senior ‘tweener defender had an impact workout at the NFL Combine and is the safest selection in this draft class.

3. Glenn Dorsey - DT - 6’2” 300 lbs. - LSU
Explosive senior tackle was a dominant force over the ’07 season but must answer leg injury questions at his pro day later this month.

4. Jake Long - OT - 6’7” 320 lbs. - Michigan
Physical senior tackle is one of the most developed prospects in this class and completed a fine NFL Combine workout to guarantee a top ten selection.


5. * Vernon Gholston - DE - 6’4” 260 lbs. - Ohio St
Fast junior ‘tweener defender had a very strong NFL Combine workout plus the big play ability to a pro difference maker as a sack artist.


(So Gholston at #1 makes for a better value being #5?????)

If I where to continue to beat a dead horse then I would post about 10-15 more rankings to show that Jake Long's value is even with Chris Long or Vernon Gholston's. But i will pass.


If Jake Long is such a poor value for us then why his he rated the #2 player just behind McFadden. According to your argument maybe we need to go with Darren McFadden at #1 since he is quote on quote the best player avalible. You get very sensitive when peoples opinions differ then your owns, but the truth is there is a 50-50 split between Jake Long and Chris Long and we both will put up good arguments. What does it matter that I post the same stuff about Jake Long when you post the same crap about Vernon Gholston and Chris Long in all your post. I mention pass rush being a strengh because we still have Jason Taylor and Joey Porter on the roster. With them going back to a true 3-4 I think it will benefit there quality of play. Just a year before last year the defense was top 5. Last year was an abberration due to the defense having to defend from there own 40 half the time because the offense either turned the ball over or couldnt move the ball at all. Let alone Dom Capers not really being interested playing second fiddle to Cam Cameron having to run a 4-3 when he has coached the 3-4 for a good portion of his career. The Dophins under Saban ran the 3-4 with Jason Taylor being the elephant linebacker and he did nothing but win MVP. How short memories are........


One more last parting shot.... I dont think there has ever been a team that has drafted a 3-4 OLB with the #1 overall pick. I mean drafting a 3-4 OLB and paying him 35 million plus when you could grab a guy who can do the same job for about 20-25 million in most years during F/A. Trying to get a franchise LT on the market on the other hand is one of the hardest spots to fill via free agency much like finding a quality quaterback. You also mentioned me being close minded but why couldnt we find other options later at 3-4 OLB????? What if a guy like Quentin Groves where to slip whom I think is the most natural 3-4 OLB In this draft. Maybe we can take a gamble on a natural fit DE tweener that wont fit in most 4-3 defenses but would be perfect in ours. A team like the Pittsburgh Steelers has had there 3-4 defense built through late round undersized 3-4 tweener selections for like the last 20 years.

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Old 03-29-2008, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Joeyjr09 View Post
Dude, I've seen you write that same expect post with that same exact OL combo like 3403824092380 times. Care to contribute something new?

I mean serious dude, your beating a dead horse.

You keep saying that if we miss Jake Long we will only get the 6-7 best OL in the draft. But this draft is very deep in OL talent. Getting the 6-7 OL in this draft is like like the 3rd OL in any other draft. The value of OL in round 2 is out of this damn planet this season.

You keep looking at the number and position of the player we are drafting instead of the quality of player. Jake Long is not the quality of player that you need to take at number 1 overall but guys like guys like Gosder Cherilus, Carl Nicks, Chilo Rachal, Sam Baker are all better prospects then Joe Staley who was a 1st rounder last season.

That's the problem with Jake Long. If you take him you are getting absolutely horrible value for your pick. He is not the best talent in the draft, hell he might not even be a top 3 talent in the draft. OT do not hold good value in the top of drafts, and we would be getting huge value taking an OT in round 2.

You wanna draft Jake Long just to say we got our need filled with the best guy. That never works. Reaching for players early in drafts are to fill needs will kill your team. You have to sit back and make your own evaluation and draft who you think is the best overall player in the draft.

Houston was deseprate for the RB a couple years ago, but he graded out to them as a worse prospect then Mario Williams. Look how that panned out. You need to take the best talent at number 1 overall, plain and simple. You with this draft your looking at Chris Long, Darren McFadden and Vernon Gholston. Jake Long is number 4 on that list.

Please, please, stop repeating the same tied info about Jake Long over and over and over again. It's annoying already. We get it, you want a good OL. So do we all, there are better ways to fix our OL then to reach with the number 1 overall pick.

You are completely closeminded, you think Jake Long is the only way we will have a good OL next year and getting one track minded like that is bad for our team. You have to look at other options.

BTW, you called our pass rush a position of strength? Dud you watch a single game last season?
I agree with just about everything you said, except the Houston argument. They did the complete opposite of what you said, but it did work out for them. They drafted for NEED over BPA. They really didn't need a RB then because Domanick Davis was coming off a great rookie campaign. What they did have was one of the worse pass-rushing units and D-lines as a whole in the league. And going against Peyton Manning twice a year, they NEEDED the pressure. That's why they took Mario Williams. He didn't grade out higher than Bush. Bush was clearly the BPA in '06. I remember hearing all the Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders comparisons before the draft that year even. Bush would have certainly upgraded what they had an RB, but he was considered a luxury pick for Houston if they took him, which they couldn't afford to do, take a luxury pick when they had bigger needs, primarily on the Dline, and it's why Mario ended up being the pick.
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Old 03-29-2008, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Beating a dead horse????? Joey dont you think that your Chris Long and Vernon Gholston arguments are beating a dead horse. I voice my opinion on what I beleive but yet you attack my argument every chance you get. I put up a very good argument that many experts care to share my same opinion including the person you get to post on his forums. Then you care to mention quality of player. Well go ahead and ask Scott or some of the many of experts and scouts who do this for a living and most of them if not all will tell you that Jake Long is a top 5 rated player in this draft and is at the same level with the Chris Long's and Vernon Gholston's of the world.

Our very own Scott Wright's Ranking board

Player Class Position School
1. Darren McFadden JR RB Arkansas
Elite talent who is destined to become one of the league's top rushers.
2. Jake Long SR OT Michigan
A left tackle who is not quite Joe Thomas but is better than Levi Brown.

3. Chris Long SR DE Virginia
Technician who plays the run and pass and has an unparalleled motor.
4. Glenn Dorsey SR DT L.S.U.
Simply one of the best defensive tackle prospects we've seen in years.
5. Vernon Gholston JR DE Ohio St.
Versatile pass rusher extraordinaire and also a rare physical specimen

Scouts Inc.'s Top 32Player Pos. School Grade
1. Darren McFadden RB Arkansas 99
2. Chris Long DE Virginia 98
3. Jake Long OT Michigan 98
4. Glenn Dorsey DT LSU 98
5. Matt Ryan QB Boston Coll. 98
6. Sedrick Ellis DT USC 97
7. Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State 96

I like this board even better by the good folks at scout's inc who have Long rated at 98. So taking him over C.Long who is at 98 or Gholston who is a 96 projects for a poor value once again as you stated.

Top 50 Pro Prospects for the NFL Draft ’08

* underclassmen - March Post NFL Combine ‘08


1. Matt Ryan - QB - 6’4” 220 lbs. - Boston College
Savvy pocket QB retains his top ranking in this talented class since last fall. He looks to impress at his pro day throwing the ball to be the #1 overall prospect this April.

2. Chris Long - DE - 6’5” 285 lbs. - Virginia
Athletic senior ‘tweener defender had an impact workout at the NFL Combine and is the safest selection in this draft class.

3. Glenn Dorsey - DT - 6’2” 300 lbs. - LSU
Explosive senior tackle was a dominant force over the ’07 season but must answer leg injury questions at his pro day later this month.

4. Jake Long - OT - 6’7” 320 lbs. - Michigan
Physical senior tackle is one of the most developed prospects in this class and completed a fine NFL Combine workout to guarantee a top ten selection.


5. * Vernon Gholston - DE - 6’4” 260 lbs. - Ohio St
Fast junior ‘tweener defender had a very strong NFL Combine workout plus the big play ability to a pro difference maker as a sack artist.


(So Gholston at #1 makes for a better value being #5?????)

If I where to continue to beat a dead horse then I would post about 10-15 more rankings to show that Jake Long's value is even with Chris Long or Vernon Gholston's. But i will pass.


If Jake Long is such a poor value for us then why his he rated the #2 player just behind McFadden. According to your argument maybe we need to go with Darren McFadden at #1 since he is quote on quote the best player avalible. You get very sensitive when peoples opinions differ then your owns, but the truth is there is a 50-50 split between Jake Long and Chris Long and we both will put up good arguments. What does it matter that I post the same stuff about Jake Long when you post the same crap about Vernon Gholston and Chris Long in all your post. I mention pass rush being a strengh because we still have Jason Taylor and Joey Porter on the roster. With them going back to a true 3-4 I think it will benefit there quality of play. Just a year before last year the defense was top 5. Last year was an abberration due to the defense having to defend from there own 40 half the time because the offense either turned the ball over or couldnt move the ball at all. Let alone Dom Capers not really being interested playing second fiddle to Cam Cameron having to run a 4-3 when he has coached the 3-4 for a good portion of his career. The Dophins under Saban ran the 3-4 with Jason Taylor being the elephant linebacker and he did nothing but win MVP. How short memories are........
Are you serious? I beat a dead horse for responding to you? Ok bro, when there are threads made specifically calling you out as a Jake Long nuthugger, obviously you do way too much talking about the same guy over and over and over again. I went back and read some of the older threads. You manage to bring Jake Long into every conversation.

There's even a thead I made about Chad Henne and how we could maybe trade down lower to get him and yet somehow you still managed to inject Jake Long into that thread when it had nothing to do with him. You bring up Jake Long and talk about him just because Chad Henne is from Michigan. You bring up Jake Long every chance you get.

You say I'm being sensitive because I don't agree with the Jake Long pick. I'm not being sensitive, I'm being annoyed. For Christ's sake stop with the Jake Long parade you do on here. Everyone knows the pluses and minuses of having a Jake Long at LT, you don't have to remind us with every post you make.

As for your parting shot. Think things thru before you post them. You say it's stupid to draft a 3-4 OLB and pay him 35 million when you can get one in FA for 20 million. Did you live under a rock for the entire FA period. Calvin "one year wonder" Pace just got a 32 million contract. Elite pass rushing 3-4 OLB will get much, much more then 35 million.

Pass rushing is much harder to find on the FA market then OL is.

And btw...your contradicting yourself. You say franchise LTs are the hardest to find and they are worth more the 3-4 OLBs but Scott himself (who you thru out there as having Jake ranked ahead of Chris and Vernon) even says "He might not be able to play left tackle at the next level"

So while you can bring up the rankings all you want. I'll bring up the fact that very few experts think he'll be a good LT in the NFL.

You keep campaigning for him to be the pick to be a franchise LT, but your the only one that believes he can be a franchise LT. Everyone else thinks he'll be a RT at the next level. On the other hand, theres not many questions about Gholston's pass rush ability or Long's football smarts and undying motor.
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Old 03-29-2008, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Are you serious? I beat a dead horse for responding to you? Ok bro, when there are threads made specifically calling you out as a Jake Long nuthugger, obviously you do way too much talking about the same guy over and over and over again. I went back and read some of the older threads. You manage to bring Jake Long into every conversation.

There's even a thead I made about Chad Henne and how we could maybe trade down lower to get him and yet somehow you still managed to inject Jake Long into that thread when it had nothing to do with him. You bring up Jake Long and talk about him just because Chad Henne is from Michigan. You bring up Jake Long every chance you get.

You say I'm being sensitive because I don't agree with the Jake Long pick. I'm not being sensitive, I'm being annoyed. For Christ's sake stop with the Jake Long parade you do on here. Everyone knows the pluses and minuses of having a Jake Long at LT, you don't have to remind us with every post you make.

As for your parting shot. Think things thru before you post them. You say it's stupid to draft a 3-4 OLB and pay him 35 million when you can get one in FA for 20 million. Did you live under a rock for the entire FA period. Calvin "one year wonder" Pace just got a 32 million contract. Elite pass rushing 3-4 OLB will get much, much more then 35 million.

Pass rushing is much harder to find on the FA market then OL is.

And btw...your contradicting yourself. You say franchise LTs are the hardest to find and they are worth more the 3-4 OLBs but Scott himself (who you thru out there as having Jake ranked ahead of Chris and Vernon) even says "He might not be able to play left tackle at the next level"

So while you can bring up the rankings all you want. I'll bring up the fact that very few experts think he'll be a good LT in the NFL.

You keep campaigning for him to be the pick to be a franchise LT, but your the only one that believes he can be a franchise LT. Everyone else thinks he'll be a RT at the next level. On the other hand, theres not many questions about Gholston's pass rush ability or Long's football smarts and undying motor.

Are you serious Joey about Calvin Pace's contract. I am talking about guaranteed money. Calvin Pace only got 22 million in guarantees. The top pick gets 30 plus million in guarantees. Stop being such a internet tough guy trying to put me down and saying you are getting annoyed with my post. If you dont like what I have to say and it annoys you so much then stop reading it and continue to agree with everyone that post the same things you like. I have never once attacked anyone who has been pushing for Chris Long or Vernon Gholston but you find it necessary to put my post down whenever I make my arguments. I am not trying to convince you either way but maybe possibly looking for someone who might agree with my point of view wether good or bad and dicuss in a professional manner. I know that you know your Sh*t Joey but to attack me personally for just posting an opinion on a blog just seems a bit out of hand.

"Pace reached an agreement with the New York Jets on a six-year, $42 million contract on Monday. The deal, negotiated by agent Pat Dye Jr. and his associates at Atlanta-based ProFiles Sports Management, includes a signing bonus of $20 million and $22 million in total guarantees."

The contract, which makes Pace one of the highest paid linebackers in NFL history, will pay out $26 million in its first three years with 22 million being guaranteed.

(That 22 million guaranteed made him the highest 3-4 OLB in history)

Are the Dolphins going to set the new record by making Chris Long or Vernon Gholston at #1 the new highest paid 3-4 OLB In history even before he takes a snap. I guess only time will tell. I guess in a nut shell they will be way overpaying anyone at #1 but for me I want it to be the top rated offensive lineman.

Also ask yourself this question..... Why didnt Parcells want to pay Calvin Pace who has played more downs in the NFL then any of the rookies coming into this draft at his 22 million dollar guaranteed price tag???? Wouldnt that have been a bargain compared to paying one at 30+ million guaranteed and not even know how he is going to do in your 3-4 system. Pace even though he only played great for one year showed what he could do once he was changed to a more natural 3-4 spot for him.

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Old 03-29-2008, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Are you serious Joey about Calvin Pace's contract. I am talking about guaranteed money. Calvin Pace only got 22 million in guarantees. The top pick gets 30 plus million in guarantees. Stop being such a internet tough guy trying to put me down and saying you are getting annoyed with my post. If you dont like what I have to say and it annoys you so much then stop reading it and continue to agree with everyone that post the same things you like. I have never once attacked anyone who has been pushing for Chris Long or Vernon Gholston but you find it necessary to put my post down whenever I make my arguments. I am not trying to convince you either way but maybe possibly looking for someone who might agree with my point of view wether good or bad and dicuss in a professional manner. I know that you know your Sh*t Joey but to attack me personally for just posting an opinion on a blog just seems a bit out of hand.

"Pace reached an agreement with the New York Jets on a six-year, $42 million contract on Monday. The deal, negotiated by agent Pat Dye Jr. and his associates at Atlanta-based ProFiles Sports Management, includes a signing bonus of $20 million and $22 million in total guarantees."

The contract, which makes Pace one of the highest paid linebackers in NFL history, will pay out $26 million in its first three years with 22 million being guaranteed.

(That 22 million guaranteed made him the highest 3-4 OLB in history)

Are the Dolphins going to set the new record by making Chris Long or Vernon Gholston at #1 the new highest paid 3-4 OLB In history even before he takes a snap. I guess only time will tell.

Ok man if you think I'm attacking you personally then your reading way too much into this. Not once have a made a comment about you as a person, and quite frankly I don't care to because I don't even know you.

Your stuff just gets tired bro, you know there are only 4-5 people that post on the Dolphins and yet you say you post the same stuff looking for someone to discuss it with. Please bro I know BS when I hear it. The same 4-5 people on here and been saying the same stuff into response to you Jake Long posts for weeks, so don't get upset when you post the same stuff to the same people and get the same results. If you wanted to discuss it more take it somewhere else where you wouldn't be beating a dead horse with the same people that have discussed this at length with you multiple times.


As for what you say about Pace's contract. Pace is above average as an NFL 3-4 OLB at best and he still got 6 years, 42 million with 22 million guaranteed.

Flozell Adams on the other hand is one of the 5 best LT in the NFL and he got 6 years, 43 million with 15 million guaranteed.

Walter Jones who is far and away the best OL in the NFL got a 7 year, 50 million with 20 million guaranteed.

The number 1 pick is gonna have a contract that breaks records no matter what position he plays, that the nature of the draft and they way the contracts work. Hence the reason no one wants to pick at number 1 overall.

Fact is that Calvin Pace as an average pass rushing LB still has a better contract then some of the best LTs in the NFL. Wanna know why? Because pass rushers hold more value then LTs.
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Old 03-29-2008, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Ok man if you think I'm attacking you personally then your reading way too much into this. Not once have a made a comment about you as a person, and quite frankly I don't care to because I don't even know you.

Your stuff just gets tired bro, you know there are only 4-5 people that post on the Dolphins and yet you say you post the same stuff looking for someone to discuss it with. Please bro I know BS when I hear it. The same 4-5 people on here and been saying the same stuff into response to you Jake Long posts for weeks, so don't get upset when you post the same stuff to the same people and get the same results. If you wanted to discuss it more take it somewhere else where you wouldn't be beating a dead horse with the same people that have discussed this at length with you multiple times.


As for what you say about Pace's contract. Pace is above average as an NFL 3-4 OLB at best and he still got 6 years, 42 million with 22 million guaranteed.

Flozell Adams on the other hand is one of the 5 best LT in the NFL and he got 6 years, 43 million with 15 million guaranteed.

Walter Jones who is far and away the best OL in the NFL got a 7 year, 50 million with 20 million guaranteed.

The number 1 pick is gonna have a contract that breaks records no matter what position he plays, that the nature of the draft and they way the contracts work. Hence the reason no one wants to pick at number 1 overall.

Fact is that Calvin Pace as an average pass rushing LB still has a better contract then some of the best LTs in the NFL. Wanna know why? Because pass rushers hold more value then LTs.

Okay Joey I am tired of typing already. I guess we both will agree to disagree at this point of time. Two people....You and Bow have the same responses for me. Maybe I am seeing if I get lucky and find someone else who might be part of the Jake Long for #1 pick bandwagon such as myself and discuss why it benefits the team more then taking an OLB. Much like you like to discuss Vernon Gholston or Chris Long.


Listen bro I have never once said I was ever tired of hearing your responses about Chris Long or Vernon Gholston. Or ever once have gone as far as saying I was annoyed by your arguments in regards to them. Or better yet you calling me a Jake Long "NutHugger" when I could easily flip the script and tell you to get off the Chris Long-Vernon Gholston "Pole smokin" bandwagon. I know you have your opinion and I have mine. We both hold strong convictions on our opinions and I think it should be left at that.

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Old 03-29-2008, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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I've had bow blocked for weeks and haven't read or responded to any of his posts so I couldn't even tell you what he said or if he agrees with me. All I can say if that I blocked him because we never agreed and it usually led to him insulting me.

The difference between me wanting Chris Long and you wanting Jake Long is that I only talk about Chris in response to youe numerous topics about Jake. I spend just as much time talking about Chad Henne, Joe Flacco, Anthony Collins and others as I do talking about Chris or Vernon. The only thing that sways that is your 1,000's of posts about Jake Long which undoubtly lead to discussions about the number 1 pick which brings up Chris and Vernon.

I want one of the OLBs to be the pick and I'm even open to the idea of Jake Long, but rarely do I bring them up unless it's in a response to your posts about Jake Long (which happens to be very often). As a matter of fact, I think the only time I've ever brought up one of the OLB without you mentioning Jake Long was when I found that one article about Gholston a couple weeks back.

But like you said, let bygones be bygones. I say we keep the CL, JL and VG discussions to this thread only so we can discuss other topics in other threads instead of this talk taking over the board as it has. sound good?
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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On the subject of the original article, is his reasoning really that since the Dolphins didn't attend a pro day in a flock where Jake Long had minimal participation, and therefore Miami will absolutely not pick him?
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