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Old 04-02-2008, 07:23 AM    (permalink
shane_man
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Default Draft or Trade for WR?

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cf...FC65C751FC90A7

This is why I like him. Spagnola pretty much has the same opinion as me with regards to decisions the Cowboys make. I dont really want Pacman but I am willing if we get the deal we deserve. He rates Julius Jones(and rightly so) and hes really objective on the subject of the Cowboys.

Anyway. This article looks at the prospect of trading for a WR. And he's right again. We are a win now franchise. Sure we should be looking at 3-4 years down the track as well. But its not like trading for any of these sub30 year old recievers is going to stop us winning in the future.

And While I think Glenn will probably come back strong this year. If we are looking at bringing in a WR. It shouldnt be a prospect. We have three on the roster already in Hurd, Austin and Stanback... We need an impact. Specifically a bigger impact then Crayton if Glenn succumbs to injury again(which is highly likely based on his career to date). There is also the issue of TO finishing the season strong... and not on the Physio table. Sure a WR in the first round sounds like a good idea. But rarely if ever do they impact the team in the first season. And IMO when picking first round players. THEY SHOULD DO THAT. If we take a CB in the first round this year(assuming we dont sign Pacman)... He will make an impact on the Nickel. If we draft a RB in the first round this year... HE WILL MAKE AN IMPACT. If we draft a WR this year... WHERE's the impact? He's not going to be in front of anyone other then Stanback and Austin... If we use said First round pick on a trade for an established WR. Specifically one no older then 30... We are getting a(in most cases) top five reciever in the NFC to compliment our already top five reciever. We are keeping our top fifteen reciever healthy all year for 3 WR sets. And we are keeping our third option for the future in reserve for stretch the field sets where he will be pinpointed due to the amount of coverage TO and the other WR attracts.


Obviously its no guarantee to happen. You have to find a willing partner in Cinci, Detroit, Arizona... But if there is even an opportunity. I think we MUST jump.
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Its not that hard to find a 1st year impact WR if you get the right one, alot of mocks had us taking Bowe last year and look at the impact he had with nobody at qb, no o line, no rb, and no other wr threat...Imagine a talent like that with TO on the opposite side, Crayton in the slot, with Witten in the middle and Romo to distribute the ball...Someone like Devin Thomas would probably flourish his rookie season in our offense, not only that I want youth on the team, there is nobody exciting to trade for that excites me more then Devin Thomas would.


And who wants to give up a wr? Dont get me wrong im all for giving up #22 for Chad or Roy but I dont think its that easy, salary cap issues come into play with an established player, Chad wants more money right now and we could afford him but whose the odd man out with Canty, Barber, Hamlin, & T-New? I think if we trust the scouting we have im all for taking an elite wr talent, hurd and stanback are not guys worth mentioning you from not taking a wr 1st rd, were not expecting either guy to be a dominant #1 wr in this league. Im all for giving them their fair shots, but you cant afford to put all your eggs in the basket of letting them develop, so when TO is gone and we get old we would have to backtrack until we reloaded again.


Personally I dont buy this 2/3 year window stuff, when you have a franchise qb under 28 yrs old your window is as long as he is playing at a high level, all we have to do is continually draft well and keep young talent around, we are young at key positions and should be competitive for at least the next 5 years.
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm all for trading for an elite receiver if he has a very high work ethic. Guys like Jerry Rice and TO can play at a high level well into their late 30/s because they take great care of their body's. I believe Chad has this same work ethic and would be a huge upgrade to our offense as well as Romo's development. Think about it, if we have Chad last year, do we beat the giants in the playoffs? HELL YEAH!! I would give up a 1st for Chad in a heartbeat.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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How can you say Devin Thomas will have a Bowe like impact....Thomas is so incredibly raw. Bowe came from a top collegiate college and ran in a pro style offense....but yet you throw out Thomas's name like he had a similar college career...and could do the same things....they aren't even the same type of WR....
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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How can you say Devin Thomas will have a Bowe like impact....Thomas is so incredibly raw. Bowe came from a top collegiate college and ran in a pro style offense....but yet you throw out Thomas's name like he had a similar college career...and could do the same things....they aren't even the same type of WR....
So whats your point, because he didnt come frop a top college or run a pro style offense he wont make any kind of impact? I guess that stopped Colston or Brandon Marshall though huh and thats why Jarrett was a beast? You put an impact player around TO, Witten, Romo, with our line and he has a great recipe for success, it has nothing to do with how big the school was, or how similiar their styles are.


Being raw is fine for our offense, he wouldnt even be targeted heavy, being raw might not out well for a rookie wr going into an offense like Oakland, but our situation is completely different...Also Thomas was an example, I didnt make him out to be a messiah, but I believe he could flourish in our system.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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So whats your point, because he didnt come frop a top college or run a pro style offense he wont make any kind of impact? I guess that stopped Colston or Brandon Marshall though huh and thats why Jarrett was a beast? You put an impact player around TO, Witten, Romo, with our line and he has a great recipe for success, it has nothing to do with how big the school was, or how similiar their styles are.


Being raw is fine for our offense, he wouldnt even be targeted heavy, being raw might not out well for a rookie wr going into an offense like Oakland, but our situation is completely different...Also Thomas was an example, I didnt make him out to be a messiah, but I believe he could flourish in our system.
I'm saying if you

If being raw isn't a problem then why aren't Stanback and Austin making plays in our offense?

I'm saying that if we spend a top pick on a WR he better be able to run more than three routes. Desean Jackson is the only WR i'd touch in the first round...and that is just because of his return ability as bonus factor.

Thomas screams Meachem to me...and I'd rather not take a chance on a raw guy this high....if it's a second day pick so be it....like Stanback last year....the investment is smaller thus you can afford to be wrong...but to be wrong on Thomas can set our franchise back 2-3 years.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm saying if you

If being raw isn't a problem then why aren't Stanback and Austin making plays in our offense?

I'm saying that if we spend a top pick on a WR he better be able to run more than three routes. Desean Jackson is the only WR i'd touch in the first round...and that is just because of his return ability as bonus factor.

Thomas screams Meachem to me...and I'd rather not take a chance on a raw guy this high....if it's a second day pick so be it....like Stanback last year....the investment is smaller thus you can afford to be wrong...but to be wrong on Thomas can set our franchise back 2-3 years.
This is about the only thing i'd disagree on here. At this point, i don't think we're gonna depend that much on a player that he could set our franchise back so and so years because it was a miss. If that was the case, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now, especially since we've technically missed on two first rounders in the past 4 years (Spears and Carp).
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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This is about the only thing i'd disagree on here. At this point, i don't think we're gonna depend that much on a player that he could set our franchise back so and so years because it was a miss. If that was the case, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now, especially since we've technically missed on two first rounders in the past 4 years (Spears and Carp).
The only reason I said that was because I'm scared if we invest a first round pick into the position it will keep us from addressing it anywhere else in the next couple of years....so for instance if Thomas is a flop and doesn't amount to anything...then we don't address the WR position till TO retires...we are left with nothing...and have to start from ground 0.
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Actually Devin Thomas is a great kick returner and very high on numerous sites as kick return ability, he was 11th in the NCAA with a 29.1 avg, and personally id trust a bigger faster guy back there then Jackson with his weight...Sporting news list the top 10 returners in the draft:

1. Mikey Henderson, WR, Georgia
2. DeSean Jackson, WR, California
3. Eddie Royal, WR, Virginia Tech
4. Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State
5. Darrell Blackman, WR, N.C. State
6. Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy
7. Dexter Jackson, WR, Appalachian State
8. Chris Johnson, RB, East Carolina
9. Tom Zbikowski, S, Notre Dame
10. Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State



Ill take Thomas with his upside to be a #1, Jackson looks like his potential is going to be dynamic #2 at best, I dont know many who see him turning into Santana Moss, I feel like if we take a wr in rd 1 he needs to have some #1 potential, and raw or not he has an EXCELLENT chance to suceed in our system being that he wont be rushed into the offense as is.


Now as far Stanback or Austin, which one of those guys were drafted in the 1st rd? Thats a pretty bad comparison, Stanback is a converted qb, what impact did we expect from him in his 1st year? Austin is just what he is, a big guy with speed who we never even expected to do much, and never had a high ceiling to begin with, all of which is different with Thomas.


As far as Meachem, the jury is still out on whether he will be good or not, but his knees were bad and he needed surgery and could never see the field, he may or may not be a bust but that doesnt relate to Thomas at all...I mean honestly, how much do we need out of our #2 wr? Are you telling me DT wouldnt be good to put up 600 yds and 4 tds? Between TO, Witten, Crayton and running the ball with 2 backs its not like were going to be looking for him every chance possible.


And its really funny you say Thomas can only run a few routes when thats what the majority of Jacksons routes are, all similiar...How many times have you seen an array of moves from Jackson? I like the guy dont get me wrong but im looking at upside, Stanback has enough upside to become a solid #2(at least at this point), crayton is a great slot but has enough ability to be a servicable #2, I dont want to waste another 1st rd pick on another #2 wr, give me Sweed over Jackson, as dynamic as he may be I want a wr who can be a #1 in 3 years when TO is gone and I dont see that in Jackson with his size and primarily only running 2 routes in college.
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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On another note, here is an article that says we still have heavy interest in Detroit's Roy Williams and want to make a move for him:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...73/1048/SPORTS
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Actually Devin Thomas is a great kick returner and very high on numerous sites as kick return ability, he was 11th in the NCAA with a 29.1 avg, and personally id trust a bigger faster guy back there then Jackson with his weight...Sporting news list the top 10 returners in the draft:

1. Mikey Henderson, WR, Georgia
2. DeSean Jackson, WR, California
3. Eddie Royal, WR, Virginia Tech
4. Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State
5. Darrell Blackman, WR, N.C. State
6. Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy
7. Dexter Jackson, WR, Appalachian State
8. Chris Johnson, RB, East Carolina
9. Tom Zbikowski, S, Notre Dame
10. Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State



Ill take Thomas with his upside to be a #1, Jackson looks like his potential is going to be dynamic #2 at best, I dont know many who see him turning into Santana Moss, I feel like if we take a wr in rd 1 he needs to have some #1 potential, and raw or not he has an EXCELLENT chance to suceed in our system being that he wont be rushed into the offense as is.


Now as far Stanback or Austin, which one of those guys were drafted in the 1st rd? Thats a pretty bad comparison, Stanback is a converted qb, what impact did we expect from him in his 1st year? Austin is just what he is, a big guy with speed who we never even expected to do much, and never had a high ceiling to begin with, all of which is different with Thomas.


As far as Meachem, the jury is still out on whether he will be good or not, but his knees were bad and he needed surgery and could never see the field, he may or may not be a bust but that doesnt relate to Thomas at all...I mean honestly, how much do we need out of our #2 wr? Are you telling me DT wouldnt be good to put up 600 yds and 4 tds? Between TO, Witten, Crayton and running the ball with 2 backs its not like were going to be looking for him every chance possible.


And its really funny you say Thomas can only run a few routes when thats what the majority of Jacksons routes are, all similiar...How many times have you seen an array of moves from Jackson? I like the guy dont get me wrong but im looking at upside, Stanback has enough upside to become a solid #2(at least at this point), crayton is a great slot but has enough ability to be a servicable #2, I dont want to waste another 1st rd pick on another #2 wr, give me Sweed over Jackson, as dynamic as he may be I want a wr who can be a #1 in 3 years when TO is gone and I dont see that in Jackson with his size and primarily only running 2 routes in college.
The difference between Jackson and Thomas imo is that Jackson is a pure WR. He put on a clinic at his pro day...scouts were raving that he had some of the most natural pass catching hands they'd ever seen. It was also a huge discussion topic at the senior bowl about how well coached the cal WR's were....how polished they were in their route running...not sure where you get this Jackson only ran 2 routes I could prove you wrong using just youtube highlights if you would like. Point is Jackson could fill Glenns roll from day one...whereas Thomas is raw
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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The difference between Jackson and Thomas imo is that Jackson is a pure WR. He put on a clinic at his pro day...scouts were raving that he had some of the most natural pass catching hands they'd ever seen. It was also a huge discussion topic at the senior bowl about how well coached the cal WR's were....how polished they were in their route running...not sure where you get this Jackson only ran 2 routes I could prove you wrong using just youtube highlights if you would like. Point is Jackson could fill Glenns roll from day one...whereas Thomas is raw

If we're talking Cal Receivers, I'd rather see Lavell Hawkins with a star on his helmet.

I think he holds better value. He's probably available in the 3rd and his size isn't an issue.

Desean Jackson was inconsistent this year as far as showing up. The guy was invisible in some games. His size scares me, just like Ted Ginn. Plus he wont make the same plays in the pros that he did in college (Reggie Bush)

My opinion would be similar to Thules in that none of the receivers this year are worth a 1st rounder. Although, If I was going to take one, I would go with Thomas.

He has a good build. I like his hands a lot. If you watch tape he really plucks the ball well and takes it away from defenders. He can return kicks. He reminds me a bit of Anquan Boldin.
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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The only reason I said that was because I'm scared if we invest a first round pick into the position it will keep us from addressing it anywhere else in the next couple of years....so for instance if Thomas is a flop and doesn't amount to anything...then we don't address the WR position till TO retires...we are left with nothing...and have to start from ground 0.
I do not necessarily agree.

In 2003, we picked Terence Newman in the first round. He obviously wasn't a flop, but we still picked 3 more CBs in the next year's draft.

In 2004, we traded back and drafted Julius Jones what was our first pick. He wasn't exactly a bust, but we still drafted Marion Barber the next year to address a need at RB.

So, IMHO, if we do not trade for a WR and we do draft one in the first round, that [b]does not necessarily mean we won't address the same position in the next year's draft if we still in fact have a need there[b].
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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If we're talking Cal Receivers, I'd rather see Lavell Hawkins with a star on his helmet.

I think he holds better value. He's probably available in the 3rd and his size isn't an issue.

Desean Jackson was inconsistent this year as far as showing up. The guy was invisible in some games. His size scares me, just like Ted Ginn. Plus he wont make the same plays in the pros that he did in college (Reggie Bush)

My opinion would be similar to Thules in that none of the receivers this year are worth a 1st rounder. Although, If I was going to take one, I would go with Thomas.

He has a good build. I like his hands a lot. If you watch tape he really plucks the ball well and takes it away from defenders. He can return kicks. He reminds me a bit of Anquan Boldin.
I agree with the comparison to Boldin.

I am a Texas fan and I like Limas Sweed. I watched him from day one and I think he can be a #1 at a place like Tennessee. However, when ESPN was discussing his pro day and then showed clips of Devin Thomas at his pro day only seconds later, Thomas' explosion just floored me. I know he is obviously more explosive than Sweed, but you could certainly tell he has the explosiveness to be dominant in the NFL. The jury might still be out on some of his other attributes or weakness.
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Thomas is no sure thing by any means, but I feel like he just needs to be polished where as other guys have problems that cannot be fixed.

Malcolm Kelly - Bad Knees.
Desean Jackson - Midget.
Limas Sweed - Separation problems, we already have possession guys.
Mario Manningham - Dropsies.
Devin Thomas - 1 year experience, raw.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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I do not necessarily agree.

In 2003, we picked Terence Newman in the first round. He obviously wasn't a flop, but we still picked 3 more CBs in the next year's draft.

In 2004, we traded back and drafted Julius Jones what was our first pick. He wasn't exactly a bust, but we still drafted Marion Barber the next year to address a need at RB.

So, IMHO, if we do not trade for a WR and we do draft one in the first round, that [b]does not necessarily mean we won't address the same position in the next year's draft if we still in fact have a need there[b].
Back in those days we didn't have depth at the positions. At WR we have Hurd/Crayton/Stanback/Austin....we didn't have near that depth at CB or RB back in the days.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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I don't see what Thomas has vs. Stanback physically...apart from the body of work they look similar to me.
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't see what Thomas has vs. Stanback physically...apart from the body of work they look similar to me.
I'm against drafting a WR all together, but if that was going to be the pick I would prefer Thomas.

...Going back to Stanback, we got the guy for a reason and we need to let him develop. We aren't in an immediate hole at WR so I think an early pick on a guy would be a waste.

Everyone has the same like of reasoning on why we need one -- "What if T.O. goes down?" but my line of thinking is if T.O. goes down, we're ******. None of the guys in this draft are going to step up in their rookie season, dominate, and fill the void that T.O. leaves -- so why waste and early pick on any of them?

We still aren't even sure about Austin yet either. The only thing the guy really lacks is confidence. He seems scared and thinks a little too hard when he is out there, but he has the speed and ability to be something.

Stanback has potential. Hurd could turn out to be a serviceable #2/ possession receiver. Plus, Crayton should improve a bit over last year (worry more about whats going on in the game instead of running his mouth)
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Back in those days we didn't have depth at the positions. At WR we have Hurd/Crayton/Stanback/Austin....we didn't have near that depth at CB or RB back in the days.
Depth, as far as numbers go, might not be the most important aspect. The main point of my post was, "as long as we have a need" at WR, Jerry must continue to pursue the options.

IMO Austin will never be more than a questionable #4 WR and could find himself out of luck as a return man here in the next year or so, depending on Pacman or drafting a guy. Hurd is a solid #4 WR but with very limited potential to ever become a #3. There are still too many question marks regarding Stanback. From what I have seen and heard, I like him, but I do not want to bank on him and these other guys getting us through this season.

Once again, if we trade for a guy like Boldin or Roy Williams, you can sustain close to the same level of production once T.O. is no longer a Dallas Cowboy.

It will most likely not happen.
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, Donnie Avery had a great workout yesterday, according to the thread over in the 2008 Draft Forum. He's about the size of Terry Glenn (5'11, 182 lbs.) Great speed. He'd be a great replacement for Glenn.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Apparently, Donnie Avery had a great workout yesterday, according to the thread over in the 2008 Draft Forum. He's about the size of Terry Glenn (5'11, 182 lbs.) Great speed. He'd be a great replacement for Glenn.
I'm still turned off at how disappointed he was at the senior bowl...but Mayock did have him as his #1 WR for awhile...so maybe our 3rd woudl be ok...however that seems unlikely.
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