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Old 04-03-2008, 07:25 PM    (permalink
Burns336
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Default The writing is on the wall...

It's slow around here so I thought I would bring up the fact that the writing is on the wall for the end of Roy Williams days in Dallas.

It is being reported that a long term deal for Ken Hamlin is being worked out, and while a deal may not be close to getting done right away, both sides are working towards the same thing.

We also saw the draft board that had 2 safeties on the cowboys big board for DB's in the top 5.

So This means Ken is in our future and we are possibly thinking about drafting a safety early. This should mean the end for Roy Williams.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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It's slow around here so I thought I would bring up the fact that the writing is on the wall for the end of Roy Williams days in Dallas.

It is being reported that a long term deal for Ken Hamlin is being worked out, and while a deal may not be close to getting done right away, both sides are working towards the same thing.

We also saw the draft board that had 2 safeties on the cowboys big board for DB's in the top 5.

So This means Ken is in our future and we are possibly thinking about drafting a safety early. This should mean the end for Roy Williams.
I don't think they're gonna be so quick to pull the trigger.
Don't forget he was given a hefty contract extension two years ago and he still has 3 or 4 years left on it i believe, so that's a lot of signing bonus that needs to be accounted for. With the cap situation as it is, it would pretty much put them over the cap to release him right now, all things constant.

I think there's gonna be a lot of tweaking done to that board we saw, and we might even see a trade up if they're that in love with DRC as most believe they are. I'd actually like that to happen, i don't really like the prospects of just sitting at 22 and hoping and praying Mike Jenkins is the last man standing at CB.

It's very obvious that if he does get to play this year, this is THE year where
he has to show that he's worth the money he's being paid, or he's getting the proverbial ax.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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He has been horrid for some time. That writing has been a long time coming.

Sooner we cut him the sooner we become better.

He has flat out gotten worse since college.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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He has been horrid for some time. That writing has been a long time coming.

Sooner we cut him the sooner we become better.

He has flat out gotten worse since college.
How the heck did he get worse since college?
He was one of the best safeties in the league the minute he stepped
on the field his rookie year. His play was on par with anyone else's at his
position for the better part of his first 3 years in the league.

He got fat, overly aggressive, and he lost tackling technique due to
the constantly bad play he had. You could say he lost work ethic
but i don't think there's any doubt that he earned his pro bowl status
his first years in the league.

I believe he can play that way again, he just needs a fire lit under his ass.
With his back and contract against the wall, i think he can do that
this year. A lot of players skills deteriorate once they cash in with
a contract, and i think that's what happened here.
Luckily, NFL contracts aren't all guaranteed, so he better get his act
straight if he wants to keep earning enough money to afford living
in that nice house of his.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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You can find an UDFA who can play better than he can.

Dallas dumping him is the equivalent of losing dead weight. Practically additon by subtration, it makes them a better team.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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He'll definitely be around this year.

But next year he'll be gone.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us work in a Rookie (if drafted) and bench him if his play continues to suck.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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The one thing that irritates the heck out of me, is when its apparent that he f'ed up, but blames others and acts as if he did no wrong.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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He'll definitely be around this year.

But next year he'll be gone.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us work in a Rookie (if drafted) and bench him if his play continues to suck.
Kenny Phillips is mighty tempting, but I for one still want to see what Pat Watkins can do. I'm really curious to see where he takes his game now, with a couple years under his belt and some significant time on the field. A guy with his size and athleticism doesn't come around very often at the position, so let's just hope the mental side of the game has caught up with the measurables.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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Kenny Phillips is mighty tempting, but I for one still want to see what Pat Watkins can do. I'm really curious to see where he takes his game now, with a couple years under his belt and some significant time on the field. A guy with his size and athleticism doesn't come around very often at the position, so let's just hope the mental side of the game has caught up with the measurables.
Yeah, I feel you on Watkins but Phillips seems like one of those guys that will be the "I can't believe 30 teams passed on this guy." He and Hamlin could be awesome.
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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How the heck did he get worse since college?
He was one of the best safeties in the league the minute he stepped
on the field his rookie year. His play was on par with anyone else's at his
position for the better part of his first 3 years in the league.

He got fat, overly aggressive, and he lost tackling technique due to
the constantly bad play he had. You could say he lost work ethic
but i don't think there's any doubt that he earned his pro bowl status
his first years in the league.

I believe he can play that way again, he just needs a fire lit under his ass.
With his back and contract against the wall, i think he can do that
this year. A lot of players skills deteriorate once they cash in with
a contract, and i think that's what happened here.
Luckily, NFL contracts aren't all guaranteed, so he better get his act
straight if he wants to keep earning enough money to afford living
in that nice house of his.
You could make the argument that maybe he was never as good as his hype. When did he play his best for Dallas? His first two years, right? And the other safety was Darren Woodson--IMO one of the best to play the game. Just like Bob Sanders does for Indy now, he made everyone around him better. It's no coincidence that the defense that was one of the top-rated in the league in 2003 tanked in 2004 when he went out. I think Roy Williams was a big beneficiary of Darren Woodson's talent and leadership.

Also, good point about him blaming others when he screws up. I'll bet his teammates have noticed, too. It was very telling that no player came to his defense when he got suspendend for blatantly horse-collaring McNabb after so many warnings.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Am I the only one who thinks that he could thrive on the right team? I'd still like him to be a Giant if he were able.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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You could make the argument that maybe he was never as good as his hype. When did he play his best for Dallas? His first two years, right? And the other safety was Darren Woodson--IMO one of the best to play the game. Just like Bob Sanders does for Indy now, he made everyone around him better. It's no coincidence that the defense that was one of the top-rated in the league in 2003 tanked in 2004 when he went out. I think Roy Williams was a big beneficiary of Darren Woodson's talent and leadership.

Also, good point about him blaming others when he screws up. I'll bet his teammates have noticed, too. It was very telling that no player came to his defense when he got suspendend for blatantly horse-collaring McNabb after so many warnings.
If you can make the argument that he was never as good as his hype, i'd sure like to hear it. Woodson played with him for two years, and not much was expected of Williams as far as coverage went. Go look at the tapes of his games from 02-05. He was everywhere on the field, making big hits, and big interceptions. I'm not gonna say he wasnt a beneficiary of Woodson's talent, because the whole team was, not just Roy.
When Woody retired, they asked more of him in coverage, which ended up showing light to his weaknesses. Anthony Henry was then signed, stabalized the CB position a little, and he went back to Pro Bowl form. Everyone is saying on how he kept blaming other people this year, when HE took the load of the blame, every single time someone got open for a touchdown, and never said a thing for about two years. People forget easily who he was playing alongside for a long while, and that's Keith Davis, Pat Watkins, Jacques Reeves and Nate Jones. Aside from Watkins, guys that dont' start in 25 of the other NFL teams.

Look at my first two posts and you'll see that i'm in no way saying that he's still a great player, because he isn't. At this point he's like a boxer that's trying to swing so hard that he telegraphs his punches. He runs so fast and tries to hit so hard that he takes bad angles and over-pursues. His coverage skills are greatly deteriorated, but he CAN still be a play-maker. I think with his back against the wall this year, because everyone knows this is his last year if he plays like that, it just might give him enough will power to start playing like he once did. He needs to shed weight, watch film and clear his head, because i wouldn't be surprised if a big reason why he's failing now is because his noodle isn't functioning.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Am I the only one who thinks that he could thrive on the right team? I'd still like him to be a Giant if he were able.
That's the frustrating thing. If Roy would just lose 15 or 20 lbs, I think you would see a lot of that playmaking return.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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If he does turn it around, I think it needs to be elsewhere. A change of scenery can do a lot for some players and I think that is his only chance. The fans don't want him in Dallas, he doesn't have any confidence playing here. He's fat and hes gotten used to Jerry letting him do what he wants.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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His departure is long overdue, he is getting paid WAY too much to play as bad as he does, unfortunately due to his contract size we were stuck with him but im pretty sure every knows he is gone and we need some type of safety replacement...I have been saying all off season Roy is getting moved out of the picture, Hamlin will be resigned(otherwise bringing him in last year was pointless and I felt we wanted him here to stay all along), and we have been looking at plenty of safeties, I was thinking mid rd but obviously they front office is looking at that position sooner...Morgan is a thought depending on where he goes, my point is that just because Roy is here I dont think he stops us from taking a safety, it might come to where he sits the bench majority of the time at some point in the year, but we wont continue to put him out there only to have him get beat and then proceed to point and yell at the rest of the secondary.
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Anybody that believes there is a better SS on our team or in the draft than Roy needs a bump on the head.

Sure, his play has dropped off, and he has been put in bad coverage situations, but that doesn't mean there is someone better available.

Hamlin is better in coverage, but is horrible as a SS in run support.

Roy needs to make an improvement this year, but at the same time, our coaches need to do a better job in keeping him out of one on one situations.

With Reeves gone, this should make the biggest difference. With Reeves being such a weak link, and injuries to Newman and Henry, we were put in some bad defensive positions last year.

Roy was by FAR, not the problem. Could he play better? Sure. When you have poor CB depth and injuries, it will expose your safeties.

The addition of PacMan and/or a draft pick CB, plus the possibility of the improved play of Ball, should make the difference in our secondary.
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Old 04-05-2008, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Anybody that believes there is a better SS on our team or in the draft than Roy needs a bump on the head.

Sure, his play has dropped off, and he has been put in bad coverage situations, but that doesn't mean there is someone better available.

Hamlin is better in coverage, but is horrible as a SS in run support.

Roy needs to make an improvement this year, but at the same time, our coaches need to do a better job in keeping him out of one on one situations.

With Reeves gone, this should make the biggest difference. With Reeves being such a weak link, and injuries to Newman and Henry, we were put in some bad defensive positions last year.

Roy was by FAR, not the problem. Could he play better? Sure. When you have poor CB depth and injuries, it will expose your safeties.

The addition of PacMan and/or a draft pick CB, plus the possibility of the improved play of Ball, should make the difference in our secondary.
Roy was horrible in run support this last year. He used to get a pass because he would create huge gamechanging plays, he hasn't done that lately and is no longer worth the liability.
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Anybody that believes there is a better SS on our team or in the draft than Roy needs a bump on the head.

Sure, his play has dropped off, and he has been put in bad coverage situations, but that doesn't mean there is someone better available.

Hamlin is better in coverage, but is horrible as a SS in run support.

Roy needs to make an improvement this year, but at the same time, our coaches need to do a better job in keeping him out of one on one situations.

With Reeves gone, this should make the biggest difference. With Reeves being such a weak link, and injuries to Newman and Henry, we were put in some bad defensive positions last year.

Roy was by FAR, not the problem. Could he play better? Sure. When you have poor CB depth and injuries, it will expose your safeties.

The addition of PacMan and/or a draft pick CB, plus the possibility of the improved play of Ball, should make the difference in our secondary.


You have no idea what your talking about...Hamlin is terrible in run support as a SS? Where did you come up with this from, or are you just throwing out random statements that you cant prove...


Funny you called Reeves the weaklink, well coaches disagree, we had TWO weak links and that was Roy AND Reeves, its been documented many different times, on nflnetwork, nfllive, and darren woodson pointed it out on cowboys shows how horrible Roy was in coverage(not man to man, just simple zone coverage) and how the defenses keyed on him and went after him...So lets not direct the blame to 7th rd pick Reeves, Roy was by far more in charge of huge passing plays...


and there isnt a better SS in the draft??? Dont know what world you have been living in honestly, but you should watch more game tape instead of assuming your way off base...We could take 3-4 safeties in this draft who could play better then roy, what plays has he made lately?? Im tired of hearing we have to do a better job of fitting him in, and putting him in better situations, we have a SS that we have to cater to and adjust our defense around so we can mask how bad he sucks...Roy's time is up here, he's already been takin out of passing downs for next year, his role is basically diminished as is, so no matter who we bring in he wont be full time starter...And im pretty sure we take a safety before round 4.
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Roy made it a habit of taking bad angles on tackles this year, leading to those horse collar tackles he's so fond of. So if his tackling and run support are his saving grace, he is hanging on by thin thread.
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Anybody that believes there is a better SS on our team or in the draft than Roy needs a bump on the head.

Sure, his play has dropped off, and he has been put in bad coverage situations, but that doesn't mean there is someone better available.

Hamlin is better in coverage, but is horrible as a SS in run support.

Roy needs to make an improvement this year, but at the same time, our coaches need to do a better job in keeping him out of one on one situations.

With Reeves gone, this should make the biggest difference. With Reeves being such a weak link, and injuries to Newman and Henry, we were put in some bad defensive positions last year.

Roy was by FAR, not the problem. Could he play better? Sure. When you have poor CB depth and injuries, it will expose your safeties.

The addition of PacMan and/or a draft pick CB, plus the possibility of the improved play of Ball, should make the difference in our secondary.
Hamlin is twice the safety Roy is in all facets of the game. He even had more big hits than Roy did last year as well..
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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I've never heard of a defensive back who had to be removed on passing downs. Seriously, you can't make that kind of thing up.
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I've never heard of a defensive back who had to be removed on passing downs. Seriously, you can't make that kind of thing up.
Nor have i heard of DE's removed on passing downs, or vice versa
or TE's or running backs on 3rd down just to block.

oh wait..
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Old 04-05-2008, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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That's cute.

But ultimately wrong. We're talking about the secondary, the last line of defense on the field, and the defensive area most responsible for pass defense. It's one thing to have a bigger DE to play the run on 1st and 2nd downs, or a blocking TE to help pass pro and the running game, than a defensive back who can't cover a tree stump.

Personally, I hope Dallas keeps him on the roster, if only to prevent them from getting better.
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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That's cute.

But ultimately wrong. We're talking about the secondary, the last line of defense on the field, and the defensive area most responsible for pass defense. It's one thing to have a bigger DE to play the run on 1st and 2nd downs, or a blocking TE to help pass pro and the running game, than a defensive back who can't cover a tree stump.

Personally, I hope Dallas keeps him on the roster, if only to prevent them from getting better.
Exactly, they're the last line of defense, and most responsible for the passing of the other team. So if you know that a player's strengths really aren't in coverage, and you KNOW the other team is gonna pass, why wouldn't you want to substitute him for a better coverage guy?
It's the same concept and logic for putting Robert Mathis in on 3rd downs.
Dude's the size of a LB, he's a hell of a pass rusher, but a liability in the run defense, so he doesn't play the run, and he plays when they pass.
It's not different at all
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:21 PM    (permalink
Geo
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While he's occassionally subbed for with Josh Thomas, Robert Mathis has been playing all downs for the last two years. He plays beyond his size against the run, surprisingly, although obviously it's best to sub for him when possible to keep him as fresh as possible.

If the Cowboys draft a strong safety, he'll play the run and the pass, plus he'll be fast enough to play special teams.
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