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Old 04-04-2008, 02:56 PM    (permalink
Quagmire
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Default Proposed Jason Taylor trade

Before you read too far, this is MY proposal for a deal. No truth (as far as I know) as to what I am proposing. Most of you on this board know that I really think the only way for this team to move forward is to add as many picks as possible. I have been adamant on trading Jason Taylor as part of this. In looking over the TVC, I think I came up with a way that would give Miami the picks they desire and a contender the potential missing piece to an AFC title. The proposal:

Miami trades Taylor, pick #32 (2) and pick #100 (4) to Jacksonville for:

Pick #26 (1), #58 (2), #89 (3), and #125 (4).

Basically, this makes Taylor worth about 520 points which would be the 38th pick overall. Considering he is 34 yrs old and really seems to want out, I think this is pretty fair value.

For Jacksonville, essentially they move down in rounds 1 and 3 and trade picks in rounds 2 and 4 to get them an edge rusher which could help their D get over the top. They would also still have and extra #3 from the Stroud deal along with a couple of extra #5's that they have acquired so they can still add depth to their team.

Seems pretty fair. I know it looks complex because of all the picks moving. But, if you look at it, it seems very logical to me. I would love for this deal to happen....

One other positive to this deal for Miami is it still leaves them with the first pick of day #2 which has traditionally been a great pick to trade to add more picks.

Last edited by Quagmire : 04-04-2008 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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How about JT for Jacksonville's #26, straight up. Period. That works for me! :)
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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How about JT for Jacksonville's #26, straight up. Period. That works for me! :)
That would be freaking awesome ...... Wow Bow we actually agreed on something. Gotta go check outside to make sure the sky aint falling
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Old 04-05-2008, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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That would be freaking awesome ...... Wow Bow we actually agreed on something. Gotta go check outside to make sure the sky aint falling
Haha, I don't know how we couldn't agree on something as good as this. if one of us couldn't agee, I'd have to say there would be something seriously wrong with us. :)
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Old 04-06-2008, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Why would Jacksonville want to move down in Round1 (From 26 to 32), plus give up a 2nd and a 3rd rounder just for JT and a swap of 4ths?

Makes no sense for them. Don't have any idea how you see that as logical or fair for them at all. Tuna will likely pull the trigger for just the 26 overall or for a combo of a 2nd and a 5th. No need for them to be giving up multiple high picks and moving down in Round 1 when they can get the same player for a much lower cost.

I don't care if the TVC says the value is fair. The TVC is in the process of being re-written because it's outdated and any logical person can see that giving up a 2 and a 5 is much better for a team then giving up a 2, 3 and swapping 1st rounders. And in no way shape or form does swapping 4ths make this even remotely more fair.

Great trade for us but an utterly stupid trade for Jacksonville. It will never happen. Damn pipe dream. Cool to see some outside the box thinging tho.
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Why would Jacksonville want to move down in Round1 (From 26 to 32), plus give up a 2nd and a 3rd rounder just for JT and a swap of 4ths?

Makes no sense for them. Don't have any idea how you see that as logical or fair for them at all. Tuna will likely pull the trigger for just the 26 overall or for a combo of a 2nd and a 5th. No need for them to be giving up multiple high picks and moving down in Round 1 when they can get the same player for a much lower cost.

I don't care if the TVC says the value is fair. The TVC is in the process of being re-written because it's outdated and any logical person can see that giving up a 2 and a 5 is much better for a team then giving up a 2, 3 and swapping 1st rounders. And in no way shape or form does swapping 4ths make this even remotely more fair.

Great trade for us but an utterly stupid trade for Jacksonville. It will never happen. Damn pipe dream. Cool to see some outside the box thinging tho.
Joe,

Explain to me how Jax giving up the 26th pick (worth more) and not picking til late in round 2 makes more sense for them than switching spots and picking at #32? I think it is extremely fair for Jax because they essentially keep their #1 pick and still get JT. The deal is essentially a 2 and a 4 with a couple of move downs to make the trade better for Miami.

The chart is outdated, however more for trading up in round 1. The top picks are way out of proportion, but the lower you go, the more it works. I think to determine essentially a 2nd rd value for a player is accurate.

Mind you, you are probably correct in noting that Tuna will most likely ask for their #1 and not try to make a deal as tricky as the one I proposed, but I would not call it illogical or stupid. I would take the #1 pick in a second over this deal, but I don't see any way Jax makes the deal. Jax may only want to give up a 2 and a 5, but if Miami wants to ask for more, this is the way to do it. I think you need to look at what I proposed more carefully because it is definitely not an unfair deal for either team......
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Joe,

Explain to me how Jax giving up the 26th pick (worth more) and not picking til late in round 2 makes more sense for them than switching spots and picking at #32? I think it is extremely fair for Jax because they essentially keep their #1 pick and still get JT. The deal is essentially a 2 and a 4 with a couple of move downs to make the trade better for Miami.

The chart is outdated, however more for trading up in round 1. The top picks are way out of proportion, but the lower you go, the more it works. I think to determine essentially a 2nd rd value for a player is accurate.

Mind you, you are probably correct in noting that Tuna will most likely ask for their #1 and not try to make a deal as tricky as the one I proposed, but I would not call it illogical or stupid. I would take the #1 pick in a second over this deal, but I don't see any way Jax makes the deal. Jax may only want to give up a 2 and a 5, but if Miami wants to ask for more, this is the way to do it. I think you need to look at what I proposed more carefully because it is definitely not an unfair deal for either team......
Still don't see the logic in it from Jacksonville's side of things. You said it's a 2 and a 4 plus a couple of trade downs. Not sure how you see Jacksonville giving up a 2nd and a 4th as clearly you have Miami and Jacksonville swapping 4th. Jacksonville is giving up a 2 and a 3 while trading down in round 1 and swapping 4ths.

Here is what I'm seeing:

RD1- Jacksonville trades down from 26 to 32. This move is costing them 120 points on the TVC.

RD2- Jacksonville gives up pick number 58.

RD3- Jacksonville gives up pick 89.

RD4- Jacksonville moves up from pick 125 to pick 100 gaining 53 points on the TVC.

So basically Jacksonville is giving up thier 2nd rounder (58), their 3rd rounder (89) and a different in points of 67 (the difference between the 120 of the 1st round move down and the 53 of the 4th round trade up) 67 points is basically another mid 4th round pick.

Why on God's earth would Jacksonville want to give up their 2nd, 3rd and basically an extra 4th rounder worth of draft positioning for JT when he can likely be had for a 2nd and a 5th?

Makes no sense at all for them. A 2nd and 5th is likely right around Taylor's value and your strategy has the Jags giving up a heck of alot more then that. I'd be shear stupidity on their part to make that deal.
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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Still don't see the logic in it from Jacksonville's side of things. You said it's a 2 and a 4 plus a couple of trade downs. Not sure how you see Jacksonville giving up a 2nd and a 4th as clearly you have Miami and Jacksonville swapping 4th. Jacksonville is giving up a 2 and a 3 while trading down in round 1 and swapping 4ths.

Here is what I'm seeing:

RD1- Jacksonville trades down from 26 to 32. This move is costing them 120 points on the TVC.

RD2- Jacksonville gives up pick number 58.

RD3- Jacksonville gives up pick 89.

RD4- Jacksonville moves up from pick 125 to pick 100 gaining 53 points on the TVC.

So basically Jacksonville is giving up thier 2nd rounder (58), their 3rd rounder (89) and a different in points of 67 (the difference between the 120 of the 1st round move down and the 53 of the 4th round trade up) 67 points is basically another mid 4th round pick.

Why on God's earth would Jacksonville want to give up their 2nd, 3rd and basically an extra 4th rounder worth of draft positioning for JT when he can likely be had for a 2nd and a 5th?

Makes no sense at all for them. A 2nd and 5th is likely right around Taylor's value and your strategy has the Jags giving up a heck of alot more then that. I'd be shear stupidity on their part to make that deal.
Joe,

#1 - Jax moves from 26 to 32 and from 89 to 100.
#2 - They then trade #58 and #125.

Thats the deal. They move down 6 spots in rd 1 and 11 spots in round 3 and trade us 2 picks on top of it.

Now, if you are saying they would not give more than a #2 and a #5, thats fine. But, I think because their #2 is so low, that they may have to sweeten the pot a little. Thats where switching spots in those rounds helps make up for the low pick.
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Joe,

#1 - Jax moves from 26 to 32 and from 89 to 100.
#2 - They then trade #58 and #125.

Thats the deal. They move down 6 spots in rd 1 and 11 spots in round 3 and trade us 2 picks on top of it.

Now, if you are saying they would not give more than a #2 and a #5, thats fine. But, I think because their #2 is so low, that they may have to sweeten the pot a little. Thats where switching spots in those rounds helps make up for the low pick.
They don't move 11 spots in round 3. They give up their 3rd round pick all together. Pick number 100 is not in round 3. It's in round 4, and round 3 is longer then other rounds due to comp picks. Jacksonville would be giving up a 2nd and 3rd on top of moving to the last pick of round 1.

You can't say that Jacksonville is giving up a 2 and a 4 while moving down in round 1 and 3. Because that's not the case. Jacksonville finishes this deal with no 2nd round pick, and no 3rd round pick as well as moving all the way down to the last pick in round 1.

Besides you are making this trade based on the TVC. The TVC was made for draft day trades of picks for picks. It;s a way of giving a number value to something that you cannot quanitify since it is not a player.

If Jacksonville was just giving up a high 2nd or a mid 2nd and a 5th then they might think about it because realistically, they are only giving up one contributing player this year for JT.

But if Jacksonville has to giving up a 2nd and a 3rd, now Jacksonville is giving up 2 potential contributing players plus giving 6 other teams a chance to get a better player then then in round 1. All for JT. Why would Jacksonville want to do that?
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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They don't move 11 spots in round 3. They give up their 3rd round pick all together. Pick number 100 is not in round 3. It's in round 4, and round 3 is longer then other rounds due to comp picks. Jacksonville would be giving up a 2nd and 3rd on top of moving to the last pick of round 1.

You can't say that Jacksonville is giving up a 2 and a 4 while moving down in round 1 and 3. Because that's not the case. Jacksonville finishes this deal with no 2nd round pick, and no 3rd round pick as well as moving all the way down to the last pick in round 1.

Besides you are making this trade based on the TVC. The TVC was made for draft day trades of picks for picks. It;s a way of giving a number value to something that you cannot quanitify since it is not a player.

If Jacksonville was just giving up a high 2nd or a mid 2nd and a 5th then they might think about it because realistically, they are only giving up one contributing player this year for JT.

But if Jacksonville has to giving up a 2nd and a 3rd, now Jacksonville is giving up 2 potential contributing players plus giving 6 other teams a chance to get a better player then then in round 1. All for JT. Why would Jacksonville want to do that?
Joe,

The #100 pick is the first pk of round 4. It is not like they are dropping a whole round. It is just moving down 11 spots.

They would still have the 32nd pick (which in most yrs is the last pk of round 1). They would have no 2nd round pick. They would have the 3rd acquired for Stroud and they would have the first pk of the 4th round. On top of that, they would have an all-pro DE who could put them over the heap. Don't see how it does not make sense.......
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Joe,

The #100 pick is the first pk of round 4. It is not like they are dropping a whole round. It is just moving down 11 spots.

They would still have the 32nd pick (which in most yrs is the last pk of round 1). They would have no 2nd round pick. They would have the 3rd acquired for Stroud and they would have the first pk of the 4th round. On top of that, they would have an all-pro DE who could put them over the heap. Don't see how it does not make sense.......
Let me ask it to you this way:

You could have JT plus a 1st rounder (26 overall), 2 3rd rounders (71 overall and 89 overall). No picks in round 2 or 4.

Or you could have JT, a 1st rounder (32 overall), a 3rd rounder (71 overall) and a 4th rounder (100 overall). No pick in around 2.

Which would you take? Option A is if Jacksonville traded their 2nd and 4th round choices (which is more then it will reportedly take). Option B is your idea.

Why on earth would Jacksonville take your option when they can do something much simplier and up up with better picks and the player they want?

All you did was come up with a real twisted and confusing way for Miami to get a really good deal but it makes no sense at all from Jacksonville's side of things.
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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Let me ask it to you this way:

You could have JT plus a 1st rounder (26 overall), 2 3rd rounders (71 overall and 89 overall). No picks in round 2 or 4.

Or you could have JT, a 1st rounder (32 overall), a 3rd rounder (71 overall) and a 4th rounder (100 overall). No pick in around 2.

Which would you take? Option A is if Jacksonville traded their 2nd and 4th round choices (which is more then it will reportedly take). Option B is your idea.

Why on earth would Jacksonville take your option when they can do something much simplier and up up with better picks and the player they want?




All you did was come up with a real twisted and confusing way for Miami to get a really good deal but it makes no sense at all from Jacksonville's side of things.

Joe,

I am going to let this one die. As usual, we will agree to disagree. I definitely think the deal would be fair both ways........
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