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Old 03-31-2007, 10:38 AM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Again though, I don't understand how there's even a question on the wide receiver depth compared to the cornerback depth.

There is no question in my mind that cornerback needs help far more than receiver does. We've got some decent depth at receiver where if Madison gets injured again, who are we left with? Webster who hasn't proven him self yet (he may do well this year, may not) RW McQuarters? I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot happier with someone like Houston or Revis there for some much needed depth and the future. I mean, even if Amani goes down, at least we've got Sinorice, Plaxico and even David Tyree isn't the worst wide receiver I've ever seen if he needed to take the slot.

I mean, there is HUGE depth at wide receiver year, maybe the some of the best we've ever seen. Why not take a guy later in the second, third or fourth? Cornerback depth won't last that long for us, wide receiver depth in the draft will.
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I'd go
1. CB
2. WR
3. OT
4. OLB
5. DT
6. TE
7. RB
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Old 03-31-2007, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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A strong front seven can mask the shortcomings of any secondary. Look at what the secondary when the front seven was healthy.

Improve the front seven, grab a corner later if need be.
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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A strong front seven can mask the shortcomings of any secondary. Look at what the secondary when the front seven was healthy.

Improve the front seven, grab a corner later if need be.
That reasoning is ridiculous. We'll stop the run, but they'll tear us up through the air. We can't ignore the fact that 2 of our top 3 corners are 31 and 33 years old. They aren't gonna get any younger, no matter how much you try to "mask" it. We need to draft a top notch CB in round one, even if he has to sit for a year and develop for next season. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to not draft a CB in round one or two.
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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That reasoning is ridiculous. We'll stop the run, but they'll tear us up through the air. We can't ignore the fact that 2 of our top 3 corners are 31 and 33 years old. They aren't gonna get any younger, no matter how much you try to "mask" it. We need to draft a top notch CB in round one, even if he has to sit for a year and develop for next season. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to not draft a CB in round one or two.
Exactly. It doesn't matter how dominant your front seven is, your secondary will still get torn up if you've got decent or bad cornerbacks. Sure, Sam Madison is okay, but as Ricky Bobby said - he's old. RW McQuarters is not only old, but also below average as a cornerback.

I like Dockery quite a bit, and even if he does pan out, that leaves two aging veterans and who know's if Corey Webster pans out?

Our corners did do bad at the beginning of the year when everyone was healthy. They did better after the Bye week for a game or two, then got lit up again.

Look at the Chargers the past few years, they've been stacked at the front seven and their only weakness on defense has been in the secondary where they constantly gave up big plays and cost the Chargers a lot of games.

It wasn't until they finally took Cromartie last year in the first round did their pass defense significantly get better, and it was 13th overall this year.
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Didn't the Giants win a Super Bowl with a cornerback nicknamed "Toast"?

And what ever happened to the love for Underwood and Dockery? They might not be number one corners, but they showed a lot during preseason (Underwood) and during the year (Dockery).

No matter how good your corners are, they can only cover for so long. Find a big DT who can push the pocket back and make opposing QBs throw off the back foot. The ends will generate pressure, but a DT who can stop the QB from stepping up will really help.

Also, the scheme is changing. I mean, really, how many corners looked good under Tim Lewis EVER? He tried to turn Webster into something he's not and everyone could see it but him!
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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You are thinking short term. We need to look at the positions that are old on our team, and upgrade them ASAP. Those positions are CB and WR. By that reasoning we should go CB and WR in rounds 1 and 2.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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You are thinking short term. We need to look at the positions that are old on our team, and upgrade them ASAP. Those positions are CB and WR. By that reasoning we should go CB and WR in rounds 1 and 2.
Underwood is young. Dockery is young. Webster will improve. He's young.

Who do the Giants have at DT? Robbins isn't a spring chicken, Joseph is inconsistent, Seawright isn't starter material. All the Giants have, long term, for DT is Cofield. Don't say Tuck - he'll see DT on obvious passing downs, but he's not DT.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Underwood is young. Dockery is young. Webster will improve. He's young.

Who do the Giants have at DT? Robbins isn't a spring chicken, Joseph is inconsistent, Seawright isn't starter material. All the Giants have, long term, for DT is Cofield. Don't say Tuck - he'll see DT on obvious passing downs, but he's not DT.


We're going to count on UDFA to be our future? Thats never smart. CB needs to be our 1st round pick. LB can wait, just need to add another body, DT can def wait, our line coach has shown he can take people and plug them in, DE is obviously not a need (hell we said that last year =P)

If your gonna say we have Underwood and Dockery then you can't go and say Seawright is nothing.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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We're going to count on UDFA to be our future? Thats never smart. CB needs to be our 1st round pick. LB can wait, just need to add another body, DT can def wait, our line coach has shown he can take people and plug them in, DE is obviously not a need (hell we said that last year =P)

If your gonna say we have Underwood and Dockery then you can't go and say Seawright is nothing.
Exactly- im sorry underwood has never played and who knows if the guy is going to b even decent, let alone good so u cant say its ok to not draft a CB because we have him. Dockery played really well last year, surprisingly so, and we should def monitor how he does but we still need a young standout rookie to come in for sure.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Underwood was playing with the first team during the preseason, then went down with injury. Blessing in disguise because the Giants were able to keep Underwood and Dockery instead of letting one of them be snatched off the practice squad.

CB shouldn't be the first need. Again, if the front seven doesn't get pressure on the QB...any CB will get torched. You can only cover for so long and in today's game, with the rules the way they are, it's very tough.

Corey Webster, the scapegoat of the Giants secondary, looked good when the pressure was on the QB. How good will a rookie CB be when the QB has all day to set up, look down the field, and not worry about the pressure? Pretty terrible.

And Underwood actually looked good in the preseason. Seawright looked awful all year.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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actually go eli i feel the safeties were the scapegoats because of the lack of speed at CB around them. Granted we dont need another Will A who was fast as he!! but needed to improve at covering, but webster, madison and mcquarters are not fast. A speedy CB or a LB who can cover TE's would really help. It all depends how we use gerris. Is he gonna be the one covering TE's? if so bring in a pass rushing OLB and if gerris wont, bring in a guy who will cover well.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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I hope Seawright develops. I absolutely love big DTs and he has size comparable to Marcus Stroud. I hope we draft another Big Body DT and let Joseph hit the road.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I hope Seawright develops. I absolutely love big DTs and he has size comparable to Marcus Stroud. I hope we draft another Big Body DT and let Joseph hit the road.
But how long do we wait for Seawright to develop? He's been with the Giants two years now I believe. Two full years of NFL weight training and coaching.

Jospeh is good depth who can play DT and DE. I'd let Seawright walk way before Joseph.
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Old 03-31-2007, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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You are thinking short term. We need to look at the positions that are old on our team, and upgrade them ASAP. Those positions are CB and WR. By that reasoning we should go CB and WR in rounds 1 and 2.
no....


Young doesnt equal good fella.


I think we ought to draft a CB in the 2nd or 3rd.


Our new scheme is gonna help a great deal. Willy Demps really came on at the end of the year and should be a help to our backfield.


I think we should draft a 3rd round CB and just go with what we got for this season, see what develops between Webster, Underwood and Dockery, then sign a proven CB next offseason if needed.

all of our holes arent gonna be filled this offseason and I would float CB to next offseason.
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Old 03-31-2007, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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no....


Young doesnt equal good fella.


I think we ought to draft a CB in the 2nd or 3rd.


Our new scheme is gonna help a great deal. Willy Demps really came on at the end of the year and should be a help to our backfield.


I think we should draft a 3rd round CB and just go with what we got for this season, see what develops between Webster, Underwood and Dockery, then sign a proven CB next offseason if needed.

all of our holes arent gonna be filled this offseason and I would float CB to next offseason.
Reese wants to get young, faster and healthier. The two positions where we are old and unhealthy are CB and WR. I know young doesn't mean talent. That's why I proposed that we spend our 1st and 2nd round picks on those positions so we'd get young and good. You are completely contradicting yourself by bringing Dockery and Underwood into the conversation. We can't count on them to develop. They were UDFA for a reason. Also, if we "float" CB to next offseason, we'd be scrambling to find a starter. That will result in us overpaying for a CB in the FA, or forcing us to draft a CB in round 1 of next year and plug him into the starting lineup whether he is ready or not. I propose that we draft one in round 1 this year and that way if he is not ready to start right away, Madison and McQuarters can still be servicable. They won't be servicable next year at the age of 34 and 32. I'm not sure if you can follow all of that. It's my stream of Consciousness.
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Old 03-31-2007, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Again though, I don't understand how there's even a question on the wide receiver depth compared to the cornerback depth.

There is no question in my mind that cornerback needs help far more than receiver does. We've got some decent depth at receiver where if Madison gets injured again, who are we left with? Webster who hasn't proven him self yet (he may do well this year, may not) RW McQuarters? I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot happier with someone like Houston or Revis there for some much needed depth and the future. I mean, even if Amani goes down, at least we've got Sinorice, Plaxico and even David Tyree isn't the worst wide receiver I've ever seen if he needed to take the slot.

I mean, there is HUGE depth at wide receiver year, maybe the some of the best we've ever seen. Why not take a guy later in the second, third or fourth? Cornerback depth won't last that long for us, wide receiver depth in the draft will.

A couple things.

Dockery left a lasting impression in my mind and while I am not banking on him to solve our issues at CB, he has a lot of potential as a nickel CB. And Underwood apparantly was beating out or close to beating out McQuarters last year as the team's #3 CB and combining that with the fact that Tressel said his ceiling was higher than any other Ohio State CB he has ever coached tells me we may have gotten gift there. I am not saying we should ignore CB in the draft and I have said many times I would not mind Ross or Revis in the 1st at all....but those guys aren't rare players. Ginn is a rare player. And don't get out of hand with this "There is more depth at WR than there has ever been before" talk....There is good depth at WR but it is not outstanding.
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Old 04-01-2007, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson
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Old 04-01-2007, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson
not very realistic, but I would like it
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Old 04-01-2007, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson
1. Beason is alright
2. Don't like McCauley. Overrated, no college production.
3. Sears won't last that long
4. I'd rather have Laurent Robinson, or Mike Walker
5. Ok
6. Ok
7. Rather have a TE
7. Ok i guess
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Old 04-01-2007, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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McCauley had a lot of production his junior year and still has all the tools you want.
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Old 04-01-2007, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson
Sears-Solai-McClain will all go earlier than where you have them.
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Old 04-01-2007, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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number 10, i have to disagree with you about ginn. He is a true playmaker with blazing speed, but i feel his height and durability may hurt him. We have moss as our burner and i see ginn being more of a dante hall in the NFL. an amazing returner and just an average wr. i could be wrong, but i feel if we went WR early, it would need to be a solid, hard working, big, good hands kinda guy who would work with eli(a guy like toomer) i feel we have bigger needs to get a guy like ginn. He and a guy like leonard in round 2 would be great, but those are luxury picks IMO
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Old 04-01-2007, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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the only round 1 wrs i would want:
calvin johnson
dwayne bowe
robert meachem

i agree scotty boy- i think ginn is going to b a dante hall type. He could wind up being much better but at this stage i feel we need a guy who is not scared to go over the middle and that can catch the ball
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:06 PM    (permalink
Number 10
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number 10, i have to disagree with you about ginn. He is a true playmaker with blazing speed, but i feel his height and durability may hurt him. We have moss as our burner and i see ginn being more of a dante hall in the NFL. an amazing returner and just an average wr. i could be wrong, but i feel if we went WR early, it would need to be a solid, hard working, big, good hands kinda guy who would work with eli(a guy like toomer) i feel we have bigger needs to get a guy like ginn. He and a guy like leonard in round 2 would be great, but those are luxury picks IMO
The issue with our passing game last year even with Toomer was that nobody gets seperation. I look at tapes of the best offenses in the league and there is one common denominator, seperation. Guys get open whether it be the scheme or the speed and explosiveness that is on the field. Moss is fast but I am not sure he could get the kind of seperation for Plax and Shockey that Ginn can.

And all of this durability crap is ludicrous....again tell me where it has been an issue in his 3 years at Ohio State. He is a tough kid.
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:16 PM    (permalink
ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Number 10 View Post
The issue with our passing game last year even with Toomer was that nobody gets seperation. I look at tapes of the best offenses in the league and there is one common denominator, seperation. Guys get open whether it be the scheme or the speed and explosiveness that is on the field. Moss is fast but I am not sure he could get the kind of seperation for Plax and Shockey that Ginn can.

And all of this durability crap is ludicrous....again tell me where it has been an issue in his 3 years at Ohio State. He is a tough kid.
If you want a speed guy, we can get Andrae Allison, Jason Hill or Steve Smith in round 2. In round three we can get Mike Walker or Laurent Robinson. This WR class is packed with speed and talent. We don't need to spend our 1st round pick on a 178 pound one dimensional WR.
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