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Old 04-18-2008, 07:10 PM    (permalink
OzTitan
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Originally Posted by yodachu View Post
They should move the Rams back to LA since no one in St. Louis gives a donkeys boner about them.
From a divisional standpoint, that definitely makes sense. I.e. they could stay in the NFC West.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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That stadium is kick ass. I can easily see an owner relocating a team there to take advantage of that stadium. Looks like a great spot for a superbowl.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Why are the Jaguars labeled "small market" exactly? Isn't Jacksonville the highest population city in Florida, by almost double?

I know there were already 2 NFL teams down there, but I'm not sure I'd call it a "small market".
Andy from Muncie, IN: I keep hearing about small-market teams in the NFL. Seattle keeps getting this name as well as the Jaguars. I understand Jacksonville isn't a Chicago or New York, but is it always city size that determines this? Would you consider Green Bay a small-market team despite historical success?

Vic: Market size is determined solely by the market's population, as it pertains to TV households. Jacksonville is 52nd in the country in market size. Harrisburg, Pa., and Birmingham, Ala., are each significantly larger in market size. What else are we going to call Jacksonville? Small now but soon to become large? OK, I'll buy that. There's no disgrace, however, in being a small market. Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh are considered to be small markets but the Steelers-Bengals and Steelers-Colts games were the highest-rated games of their respective playoff weekends. That means games involving three small-market teams got higher TV ratings than games involving teams from New York, Chicago, Washington, Boston, Denver and Tampa. A lack of market size can be overcome by the size of a team's fan base. That's how the Packers do it. The Steelers have a huge fan base and Pittsburgh offers a large corporate community to drive sponsorship sales for the Steelers. Those are the two main features of a big market: huge fan base and a large corporate community. If you have those two ingredients, you're big, regardless of the population of your market.

from Jaguars.com
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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That stadium is kick ass. I can easily see an owner relocating a team there to take advantage of that stadium. Looks like a great spot for a superbowl.
Now for my crazy idea of the day:

Maybe they should play all the superbowls, BCS national championships, I-AA champs, D2, D3 Champs, one other bowl game, one raiders game, one chargers game, and one niners game there each year. And maybe the california state championship. Thats like 8 games and they could do concerts and other stuff their too make money
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Now for my crazy idea of the day:

Maybe they should play all the superbowls, BCS national championships, I-AA champs, D2, D3 Champs, one other bowl game, one raiders game, one chargers game, and one niners game there each year. And maybe the california state championship. Thats like 8 games and they could do concerts and other stuff their too make money
That is indeed very crazy. Insane actually.

There would be no possible way in the world that Owners would allow that.

They'd be giving up WAAY too much money by not having the chance to host
the Superbowl in their city. Not to mention all the money the cities' economy brings in thanks to the humongous party the superbowl is. Not to mention all the money companies bring in to the NCAA by sponsoring their 1000 bowl games.

It would be California's dream cause the businesses there would absolutely rape the money teet that the superbowl is, but i have a better chance of knocking up Scarlett Johansson and Adriana Lima in the same night than this does of happening.
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Actually they could just make the Jags an AFC West team and move KC to the AFC South, or the Jags an NFC West team and the Rams in the AFC South. They'd be breaking some pretty significant rivalries though (more so with the former, AFCW is just too historical to do that to).

And I guess the net isn't a very accurate tool to research city populations because the only sources I can find suggest Jax has considerably more people than any other Florida city.
Methinks what JagHombre is refering to is the metro area for each city and you're finding the statistics for the city itself.

Usually when the population is tallied for Tampa, the city, it is only counting the downtown area and right around Ray Jay Stadium, which has a population of just over 300,000 people. However, the actual Tampa Bay Metro Area is made up of Tampa / St. Pete / Clearwater areas, which takes the population total to over 3 million people.

It works the same way for Miami. I don't know of the top of my head exactly what comprises the Miami-Dade Metro area, but the population is larger than the Tampa Bay area.

Jacksonville is the most populated city by itself in Florida and in the top 5 on the east coast, but the Jacksonville Metro area population is like half the size of the Tampa Bay area.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bofadabizzles View Post
Methinks what JagHombre is refering to is the metro area for each city and you're finding the statistics for the city itself.

Usually when the population is tallied for Tampa, the city, it is only counting the downtown area and right around Ray Jay Stadium, which has a population of just over 300,000 people. However, the actual Tampa Bay Metro Area is made up of Tampa / St. Pete / Clearwater areas, which takes the population total to over 3 million people.

It works the same way for Miami. I don't know of the top of my head exactly what comprises the Miami-Dade Metro area, but the population is larger than the Tampa Bay area.

Jacksonville is the most populated city by itself in Florida and in the top 5 on the east coast, but the Jacksonville Metro area population is like half the size of the Tampa Bay area.
precisely....but I'll refer to stoner's post earlier on this page...
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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precisely....but I'll refer to stoner's post earlier on this page...
Yeah... I saw that right after I posted mine. Go Bucs!
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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The ball is rolling. The stadium is going into downtown LA.

With the naming rights done, the private group planning the stadium got their first batch of major funding (overall, it's a 30 year deal worth $600 million - the most for naming rights ever.

They're planning on starting as soon as the new CBA is finished.

http://www.bizjournals.com/losangele...ers-field.html
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, $350mm of that funding is an LA municipal bond. Given the fact that California's state bonds are graded as high risk junk, I am not certain that LA will be able to underwrite this bond. The bond market is choked already with a lot of municipal crap. $350mm more is a lot, and I doubt there will be much of an appetite for it. Given that, I'm not sure that this stadium will necessarily get built with public money.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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I just hope that if a team does in fact go to LA, it's a current team. I don't want any more expansion.

If the league is all about money (which it is), it would be wise to put a team in LA, Toronto (Buffalo), and Portland.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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I personally don't want a team in LA, I don't think they deserve one, but I can understand why they would push for it.

I say just move San Diego to LA and be done with it. Same fan base. They can drive an hour to the stadium. It's not the end of the world.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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I personally don't want a team in LA, I don't think they deserve one, but I can understand why they would push for it.

I say just move San Diego to LA and be done with it. Same fan base. They can drive an hour to the stadium. It's not the end of the world.
Eh, I still maintain the previous NFL stints in LA were systematically doomed and had no chance of succeeding.

It will most likely be the Chargers, though. They can't (and won't) get a new stadium in SD, and, like you mentioned, it makes sense logistically.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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San Diego has even less viability to build a stadium in terms of space, materials, and financial resources. The move to LA would benefit the NFL and the franchise. Even so, I question the availability of public money to construct that stadium.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Looks like San Diego will be first in line to move. Big time stadium issues with no hope in sight.
Only other realistic options are Minnesota, Oakland, and MAYBE Jacksonville.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I still maintain the previous NFL stints in LA were systematically doomed and had no chance of succeeding.

It will most likely be the Chargers, though. They can't (and won't) get a new stadium in SD, and, like you mentioned, it makes sense logistically.
I don't know man. I'd watch the Giants play on a high school basketball court, I just think fans out there are too bandwagon'ish.

I still can't get over the SD/NYJ playoff game, where SD barely sold out the game, and a good 35-40% of the crowd were Jets fans. That's embarassing.

If the people won't support their team during the playoffs, what's gonna happen when they suck?
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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LA is the second biggest media market in the country and has no NFL team. At the very least, moving from SD to LA is a boost in the TV contract when it comes to negotiations. It is a money move for the entire league. Expansion would be another money move, but that would weaken the product substantially.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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San Diego would be perfect for the move.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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I say just move San Diego to LA and be done with it. Same fan base. They can drive an hour to the stadium. It's not the end of the world.
Exactly. It wouldn't screw over a whole fan base like Minnesota or Buffalo would. They have to drive a bit, so what. And I know that California is huge, but no state should get 4 teams. I think three is too much as it is, although that's worse with Florida.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Stadium looks awesome. I really don't care if there is a team in LA or not, as long as it is not an expansion team.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, $350mm of that funding is an LA municipal bond. Given the fact that California's state bonds are graded as high risk junk, I am not certain that LA will be able to underwrite this bond. The bond market is choked already with a lot of municipal crap. $350mm more is a lot, and I doubt there will be much of an appetite for it. Given that, I'm not sure that this stadium will necessarily get built with public money.
Ya, state bonds are largely how the Staples Center was financed and who knows if they're a viable option right now. The guys running the show, though, seem pretty adamant about getting this done keep insisting that it will be a completely private venture and they'll cover excess costs. Financing it could prove troublesome, but they'll find a way to get the money from somewhere.

Also FWIW, the Chargers are originally from Los Angeles.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Farmers Field. Hmm...



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Old 02-01-2011, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
Ya, state bonds are largely how the Staples Center was financed and who knows if they're a viable option right now. The guys running the show, though, seem pretty adamant about getting this done keep insisting that it will be a completely private venture and they'll cover excess costs. Financing it could prove troublesome, but they'll find a way to get the money from somewhere.

Also FWIW, the Chargers are originally from Los Angeles.
The state remains in a budget crisis driven by entitlements, principally public worker pensions. The state and city workers get really expensive pensions that were easy to fund in good times, but now when the real estate market crashed and they raised taxes on the uber wealthy, who moved out of state, it just made things worse. They have limited borrowing capacity. It is going to be hard to get investors to justify buying these bonds, though a guarantee from the development group will probably help keep the rate lower and get more interest from institutional investors.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
The state remains in a budget crisis driven by entitlements, principally public worker pensions. The state and city workers get really expensive pensions that were easy to fund in good times, but now when the real estate market crashed and they raised taxes on the uber wealthy, who moved out of state, it just made things worse. They have limited borrowing capacity. It is going to be hard to get investors to justify buying these bonds, though a guarantee from the development group will probably help keep the rate lower and get more interest from institutional investors.
Don't get me started on this haha. The public employee unions have an absolute death grip on the state.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I wasn't trying to start a political debate, but it is a reality. The commitments made to public workers is a major cash flow issue in the future. The lack of future cash flows available to pay debts is a huge reason why the credit rating of California is so low. Eventually, the market will not invest in these bonds at any rate of return. That might not happen with this stadium, but it is coming soon.
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