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Old 04-22-2008, 06:15 PM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
You took a vital comparative adjective out of my statement there. The quote was, "they really are not much better than most." This is to say that they are better than most (not all), and that the gap is not that great between them and most teams.

Apparently I have to add bold and italics emphasis on every pivotal word in my posts...

I love the "building through the draft" comment too. Rodney Harrison, Rosey Colvin (no longer with the team, I know), Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Donte Stallworth, Wes Welker, Randy Moss, etc. Those were all free agents who played big roles on the team the last two years. Heck, nearly every part of their record setting passing offense was not from the team--and that was because of the failure of draft picks like Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson.

But hey, they build through the draft.
QB: Tom Brady (Drafted)
RB: Laurence Maroney (Drafted)
WR: Randy Moss
WR: Wes Welker
TE: Ben Watson (Drafted)
OT: Matt Light (Drafted)
OT: Nick Kaczur (Drafted)
OG: Logan Mankins (Drafted)
OG: Stephen Neal (UDFA)
C: Dan Koppen (Drafted)

Total: 9/11 career Patriots.

DE: Ty Warren (Drafted)
DE: Richard Seymour (Drafted)
DT: Vince Wilfork (Drafted)
LB: Rosevelt Colvin
LB: Tedy Bruschi (Drafted)
LB: Mike Vrabel
LB: Adalius Thomas
CB: Asante Samuel (Drafted)
CB: Ellis Hobbs (Drafted)
FS: James Sanders (Drafted)
SS: Rodney Harrison

Total: 7/11 career Patriots.

I'd say 16/22 is pretty damn good.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:17 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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it sounds good..i would take the time and do it with every team to see who has the best ratio. i would say pats are top 5 or so
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Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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great evidence Raven.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:22 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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only way it is good if you can compare it to every team.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:25 PM    (permalink
Don Vito
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You can nitpick all you want and get defensive all you want, but you must remember we traded away draft picks to get both Moss and Welker. I am not denying the fact that we have players that we did not draft who have made huge impacts on the team's success. I believe the Patriots are one of the best drafting franchises in the NFL.

Quote:
You took a vital comparative adjective out of my statement there. The quote was, "they really are not much better than most." This is to say that they are better than most (not all), and that the gap is not that great between them and most teams.
OK, I am sorry. I think you are overthinking everything here a little bit too much and that blended with the anti-Patriots sentiment created this post. I mean you have pretty much gone from saying first that the Patriots had a poor 2007 draft, to the entire draft being a crapshoot a few posts ago, to the Patriots being "better than most (not all), and that the gap is not that great between them and most teams" when it comes to drafting.

You have made three different points here; you've said the Patriots had a bad draft last year, the whole draft is a crapshoot, and the Patriots are better than most teams at drafting. I really do not know what you are trying to say/prove at all in this thread besides maybe the fact that your knowledge of grammar and usage of bolding and italicizing is superior to mine.
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Old 04-22-2008, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen View Post
They traded their 4th for the most productive wide receiver season of all time, plus whatever the hell else they get from Randy from the next three years. How is it even possible to criticize that draft?

Wes Welker for their second and seventh too. Bizarre that this would even occur to anyone.
Yea you have to factor those in, those 2 alone are enough to call that draft a success, Welker and Moss took that offense to new heights, as well as Brady, and should continue to do so...hinders the development of Chad Jackson though, who I was always high on.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 04-22-2008, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy View Post
Patriots drafts since Bill Belichick took over:

2007 - Brandon Meriweather
Mike Richardson is on the team as well. Both should get some playing time this year. This draft also netted Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

2006 - Laurence Maroney, Stephen Gostkowski, Ryan O'Callaghan
Three productive picks from this draft so far. Maroney started to break out towards the end of the year, Gostkowski is a solid kicker, and O'Callaghan was a fifth-round starter. Chad Jackson, David Thomas, Le Kevin Smith, and Willie Andrews are still on the team.

2005 - Logan Mankins, Ellis Hobbs, Nick Kaczur, James Sanders
Mankins is one of the top three or so guards in the league, and Hobbs/Kaczur/Sanders are all starters as well. Four starters in one draft is very impressive, especially when one is a Pro Bowler.

2004 - Vince Wilfork, Ben Watson
Two starters. Vince Wilfork is an absolute beast and perhaps the best 3-4 nose tackle in the NFL, and Ben Watson has been a productive starter as well, causing mismatches on the field.

2003 - Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen, Tully Banta-Cain
Warren is one of the best ends in the league, Wilson was a decent starter for a few years, Samuel is one of the best corners around, Koppen is one of the best centers in the league, and TBC was a decent starter.

2002 - Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Jarvis Green, David Givens
Four very solid players. Graham and Givens eventually landed huge contracts with other teams after producing, Deion Branch was very productive and landed a first-round pick, and Green has looked good in situational work.

2001 - Richard Seymour, Matt Light
The first two picks are both Pro Bowlers.

2000 - Tom Brady
The rest of the draft wasn't good, but they also didn't have a first-round pick and I think Brady covers for the rest of the draft pretty well.

To summarize, I have decided to go through the round-by-round. To determine success rate, a starter is one point, a backup is half, and a bust is zero. I don't count incompletes, and so I divide the number of points by the number of picks, not counting incompletes.

First Round: Seymour, Graham, Warren, Wilfork, Watson, Mankins, Maroney, Meriweather

No busts there. All but Graham are still on the team, and are starters, with the exception of Meriweather, who hasn't really had any opportunities.

Starters: 7 (6 remain)
Backups: 0
Busts: 0
Incomplete: 1 (1 remains)

Success Rate: 100%

Second Round: Klemm, Light, Branch, Wilson, Johnson, Hill, Jackson

Klemm and Johnson were busts. Light, Branch, and Wilson were starters. Marquise Hill died and Chad Jackson hasn't had any chances, so they're incomplete. The team also traded for Wes Welker.*

Starters: 3 (1 remains)*
Backups: 0
Busts: 2 (0 remain)
Incomplete: 2 (1 remains)

Success Rate: 60%

Third Round: Redmond, Williams, Scott, Hobbs, Kaczur, Thomas

Redmond was a decent fullback. I'll list him as a backup even though he started a bit. Scott and Williams were busts. Hobbs and Kaczur are starters. David Thomas has been hurt, and is incomplete.

Starters: 2 (2 remain)
Backups: 1 (0 remain)
Busts: 2 (0 remain)
Incomplete: 1 (1 remains)

Success Rate: 50%

Fourth Round: Randall, Jones, Holloway, Davey, Green, Klecko, Samuel, Reid, Cobbs, Sanders, Mills, Gostkowski, Brown

Randall was a decent backup, so was Jones. Holloway and Davey were busts. Jarvis is a spot starter who I'll list as a backup. Klecko was a decent backup. Asante Samuel was a great starter. Reid and Cobbs were busts. Sanders is a starter, so is Gostkowski. Mills was a bust (I guess, he was just injured and then was a RFA signing or something), and Brown was a bust.

Starters: 3 (2 remain)
Backups: 4 (1 remains)
Busts: 6 (0 remain)
Incomplete: 0 (0 remain)

Success Rate: 38%

Fifth Round: Stachelski, Marriott, Akbar, Koppen, Sam, Claridge, O'Callaghan, Oldenburg

The first three I don't even remember, so busts. Koppen is a great starter. Sam and Claridge were busts. O'Callaghan was a starter for about half of his rookie year and started a bit last year. Oldenburg was a bust.

Starters: 2 (2 remain)
Backups: 0 (0 remain)
Busts: 5 (0 remain)
Incomplete: 0 (0 remain)

Success Rate: 29%

Sixth Round: Harris, Brady, Nugent, Love, Myles, Kingsbury, Mincey, Stevenson, Smith, Rogers, Richardson, Hairston, Hilliard

Harris stuck around as a backup for a long time. He's on the Browns now. Brady is self-explanatory. Nugent/Love/Myles/Kingsbury/Mincey/Stevenson/Rogers/Hairston/Hilliard are busts. Richardson is a backup.

Starters: 1 (1 remains)
Backups: 2 (1 remains)
Busts: 9 (0 remain)
Incomplete: 0 (0 remain)

Success Rate: 17%

Seventh Round: Tisdale, Pass, Pochman, Turner, Womack, Givens, Nead, Banta-Cain, Kelley, Morton, Cassel, Stokes, Andrews, Lua, Elgin

Don't remember Tisdale or Turner - busts. Pass was a starter. Pochman was a bust, but started for a bit with someone else (Tampa Bay?) Womack was a backup, Givens/Banta-Cain were starters. Nead was a bust, Kelley was a backup, Cassel is a backup, Morton was a bust, Stokes was a bust, Lua was a bust, Elgin was a bust.

Starters: 3 (0 remain)
Backups: 3 (1 remains)
Busts: 8 (0 remain)
Incomplete: 0 (0 remain)

Success Rate: 32%

Take all that for what you will! It took a pretty long time to do that all!
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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I don't recall there being any overwelming proclomations that the Patriots were god like at drafting. I do remember them being lauded for having the insight to trade well in regards to moving up or down and finding value that fit the team needs. Belicheck's and Pioli's handling of the relationship between talent and the salary cap is what is most often discussed as what set them apart as a franchise in the early part of the decade. The draft is a total crap shoot. No team can have consistent great drafts, but poorly run organizations can have consistently bad drafts. Continuity in the management team is vital and having (as well as sticking to) a philosophy as well.
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