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Old 04-22-2008, 06:30 PM    (permalink
BaLLiN
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definately not a HOFer
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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its stunning on how his career dwindled down so fast....
His career went to minnesota
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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definately not a HOFer
Why not? There's only 8 players with 100 rushing TDs or more. 4 are in the Hall of Fame, The other four are Emmitt Smith, LaDainian Tomlinson, Marshall Faulk, and Alexander. Why's he the odd man out?
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Maybe he really is just an average player who benefited from having a great line in front of him. Hard to believe he was the MVP a few years back.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Maybe he really is just an average player who benefited from having a great line in front of him. Hard to believe he was the MVP a few years back.
A great line alone isn't going to get an average player 1,800 yards and 28 TDs. Besides, serious drop offs happen to MVPs all the time.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Okay ill say probably not a HOFer instead of definately then, okay Dragonfirekai?
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Old 04-22-2008, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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There were rumors in the Denver media a while back that the Broncos liked Stewart, but then his surgery kinda cooled down that talk. Later, they brought in Mendenhall for a visit, which IMO was to take a second look at the "other guy" (the one you're not planning to take) and as a bit of a smokescreen.

Right now, I think Stewart is the most likely pick at 12, unless Ellis or Dorsey slide down there.
I dont get this...Why would Denver of all people rush to take a RB, they need a primeire LT, and would be in a prime position to take Clady, or Chris Williams(who protected Cutler at Vanderbilt).


What do you guys think is more important to denver, a RB, or Cutler's blind side for the next 10 years? Also I'd rate both those tackles higher then both those Rb's, and being this is Denver we are talking about, that gap would probably be even higher.
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Old 04-22-2008, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Okay ill say probably not a HOFer instead of definately then, okay Dragonfirekai?
I just wanted to know why. I still do.
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Old 04-22-2008, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true

It's official. I'm trying to think of teams that would want him. Bears? Chargers?
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:46 AM    (permalink
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Why not? There's only 8 players with 100 rushing TDs or more. 4 are in the Hall of Fame, The other four are Emmitt Smith, LaDainian Tomlinson, Marshall Faulk, and Alexander. Why's he the odd man out?
What about Terrell Davis and the best 4 year start by any RB in NFL history?
What abour Priest Holmes?
If anything, the 100 TD's is a huge selling point. But looking at it, how great was he really? I mean, he was highly inconsistent, virtually nonexistent in playoff games, but yet somehow always managed to score nearly a TD a game on average.
And Alexander is the odd man out because of the lack of showing up in the big games. He had 1, maybe 2 seasons where he was a major factor in the Seahawks success. However, if you look at it, he had 5 seasons worth mentioning. 3 others have just been stat fillers.
Those other guys, heck, Emmitt had 8/9 years worth mentioning. Faulk had 6, he is the guy who compares closest to Alexander, but his total yards trumps Alexander's.
Every one of LT's years can be noteworthy. Thats 7. He already has more yards and TD's in everything than Alexander does.
I just don't think I can put Alexander in the same class as those guys.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:57 AM    (permalink
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Alexander had a very long period of production. He was sort of underrated for a while, then I think he became more than a bit overrated. The production was there, but it was there behind one of the better left sides of an offensive line I've ever seen and in a division that simply did not defend the run well.

He's a very nice runner, but he wasn't a spectacular runner by any stretch of the imagination. The numbers are there, but the only way a runner like Alexander makes it in is with a lot more years of great production (think Curtis Martin).
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:58 AM    (permalink
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i never liked him as a pure runner. yes he is a nice guy ( as far as i can judge it ) but i always felt he didnt ran like his skillset wanted to . he had the body to be a pure powerrunner with speed. most times i felt he was to playfull to be a consistent factor.
+ with the departure of hutch his numbers fell down .
good RB , but i doubt he is a HoF candidat

( of course he can unbend his career with another ball club , maybe detroit or something )
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
What about Terrell Davis and the best 4 year start by any RB in NFL history?
There's a big difference between being 38th in career rushing TDs, and being 7th. Alexander's 9,400 rushing yards also trumps Davis' 7,600. Personally, I think Davis should get on on the Gail Sayers card.

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What abour Priest Holmes?
Alexander's 1,300 yards and 14 TDs ahead of Holmes.

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If anything, the 100 TD's is a huge selling point. But looking at it, how great was he really? I mean, he was highly inconsistent, virtually nonexistent in playoff games, but yet somehow always managed to score nearly a TD a game on average.
Here are the playoff rushing averages of the running backs in the discussion.

Alexander: 62.7 rushing yards and .9 TDs
Terrell Davis: 142.5 rushing yards and 1.5 TDs
Priest Holmes: 55.25 rushing yards and .5 TDs
Emmitt Smith: 93.3 rushing yards and 1.2 TDs
Marshall Faulk: 50.2 rushing yards and .7 TDs
John Riggins: 110.7 rushing yards and 1.3 TDs
Walter Payton: 70.2 rushing yards and .2 TDs
LaDainian Tomlinson: 55.6 rushing yards and .6 TDs
Marcus Allen: 84.2 rushing yards and .8 TDs

Can you say that Alexander is by far the worst of these backs?

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And Alexander is the odd man out because of the lack of showing up in the big games. He had 1, maybe 2 seasons where he was a major factor in the Seahawks success. However, if you look at it, he had 5 seasons worth mentioning. 3 others have just been stat fillers.
So 1,600 yards from scrimmage and 16 TDs isn't being a major contributer? For Five years, that was the minimum that Alexander produced.

Emmitt Smith only had 3 seasons above that.
Priest Holmes had 2.
Terrell Davis had 1.
Marshall Faulk had 2.
Riggins didn't have a single season above that.
Jim Brown had 2, 5 if you Prorate the shorter seasons.
Walter Payton had 2.
LdT has had 5.
Marcus Allen had 1, 2 if you prorate the 82 season.

If he wasn't the major contributer for the Seahawks, who was?

Quote:
Those other guys, heck, Emmitt had 8/9 years worth mentioning. Faulk had 6, he is the guy who compares closest to Alexander, but his total yards trumps Alexander's.
Every one of LT's years can be noteworthy. Thats 7. He already has more yards and TD's in everything than Alexander does.
I just don't think I can put Alexander in the same class as those guys.
If you ignore Alexander's rookie season, where he sat on the bench for Ricky Watters' victory lap. Alexander's season averages look like this.

Alexander: 1,512 yards from scrimmage and 15.7 TDs over 7 years.
Davis: 1,270 yards from scrimmage and 9.3 TDs over 7 years.
Holmes: 1,237 yfs and 10.4 TDs over 9 years
Faulk: 1,596 yfs and 11.3 TDs over 12 years
Riggins: 960 yfs and 8.3 TDs over 14 years.
Brown: 1,646 yfs and 14 TDs over 9 years.
Payton: 1,635 yfs and 9.6 TDs over 13 years
Tomlinson: 2,003 yfs and 18 TDs over 7 years
Allen: 1,103 yfs and 9 TDs over 16 years
Smith: 1,438 yfs and 11.7 TDs over 15 years.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:50 AM    (permalink
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Rushing yards/td's are team stats. It's always been obvious that Alexander was an average back running behind a great line.

Also, if you're going to eliminate Alexander's rookie year due to a lack of playing time, why not do the same for the others? The comparison holds very little meaning to begin with, but you're making it even more meaningless by skewing the numbers in his favor. How many fractioned seasons are you representing as full ones for Holmes? And Terrell Davis? If you must attribute team statistics to each of these RB's in order to compare them to each other, at least seek out those that hold some measure of relevance. Such as YPC or YAC.

The most accurate way to compare one back to another is to watch each of them play while taking into account all the other factors surrounding them at a given time. Even in his prime, Alexander never looked like an elite back. But the Seattle Seahawks definitely looked like they had an elite running game. And I don't mean to knock him too hard. He had some very good attributes. His patience, ability to avoid taking the big hit, his vision. He was a pretty good back. But he sure as hell doesn't deserve the bulk of the recognition for all those yards and TD's.
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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[quote=duckseason;1030982]
The most accurate way to compare one back to another is to watch each of them play while taking into account all the other factors surrounding them at a given timeQUOTE]

Well said! Take into consideration the OC, and the system the back is in. But I agree comparing 1 back to another in a different system is hard to do, especially with so many different variables that are there.
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I dont get this...Why would Denver of all people rush to take a RB, they need a primeire LT, and would be in a prime position to take Clady, or Chris Williams(who protected Cutler at Vanderbilt).


What do you guys think is more important to denver, a RB, or Cutler's blind side for the next 10 years? Also I'd rate both those tackles higher then both those Rb's, and being this is Denver we are talking about, that gap would probably be even higher.

For a long time I thought williams or clady was a lock at 12...but then I thought about it. The last first round Oline was George Foster. Not amazing. Best three denver lineman were Nalen, Hamilton, and Lepsis. The earliest one of them was picked was the 4th round.

It doesnt seem to be that difficult to find later round prospects to fit our scheme, so I will be less than surprised if they pass on Williams and Clady.
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Old 04-24-2008, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Rushing yards/td's are team stats. It's always been obvious that Alexander was an average back running behind a great line.

Also, if you're going to eliminate Alexander's rookie year due to a lack of playing time, why not do the same for the others?
I did, Priest Holmes played 10 seasons, but I removed his rookie season because he didn't start. The rest of them started right off the bat.

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The comparison holds very little meaning to begin with, but you're making it even more meaningless by skewing the numbers in his favor. How many fractioned seasons are you representing as full ones for Holmes? And Terrell Davis?
I included Davis' injured years just the same as I included Alexander's.

If you want to compare peak value, fine. Here are the averages of the top 5 year span of each of the Running backs.

Alexander 01-05: 1,770 yfs, 19.6 TDs
Smith 91-95: 1,948 yfs, 17.8 TDs
Allen 82-86: 1,630 yfs, 12.8 TDs
Tomlinson 03-07: 2,050 yfs, 20.8 TDs
Payton 76-80: 1,857 yfs, 10.6 TDs
Jim Brown: 61-65: 1,833 yfs, 14.6 TDs
John Riggins: couldn't connect 5 good seasons.
Faulk 97-01: 2,103 yfs, 15.4 TDs
Holmes: couldn't connect 5 good seasons
Davis: couldn't complete 5 good seasons.




Quote:
If you must attribute team statistics to each of these RB's in order to compare them to each other, at least seek out those that hold some measure of relevance. Such as YPC or YAC.
Ok, yards per carry.
Alexander: 4.3
Smith: 4.2
Allen: 4.1
Tomlinson: 4.5
Payton: 4.4
Brown: 5.2
Riggins: 3.9
Faulk: 4.3
Holmes: 4.6
Davis: 4.6

Quote:
The most accurate way to compare one back to another is to watch each of them play while taking into account all the other factors surrounding them at a given time. Even in his prime, Alexander never looked like an elite back. But the Seattle Seahawks definitely looked like they had an elite running game. And I don't mean to knock him too hard. He had some very good attributes. His patience, ability to avoid taking the big hit, his vision. He was a pretty good back. But he sure as hell doesn't deserve the bulk of the recognition for all those yards and TD's.
Is saying he had a really good team around him not applicable to the other running backs? Faulk had Orlando Pace in his prime, and a passing attack that put the fear of God into the opposing defenses. Smith had Nate Newton, Mark Stepnowski, Erik Williams, Larry Allen, and Mark Tuinei, that's 28 pro bowl appearances. Riggins had the Hogs. Holmes had an O-line in KC that had 26 pro bowls between them. Davis had the original cut line. Alexander had Jones and Hutchinson, which is a good combo, but is it better than what those players had? Remember, for Alexander's first four years as a starter, the passing offense was a complete joke, and the rest of the offensive line was mediocre at best.

By going exclusively on how someone looked to you in determining their value to the game, you're turning football into figure skating. There are a lot of players in the hall of fame who never really looked spectacular, they weren't flashy players, but by the time you sat down and looked at what they did, you realize they were doing great things.
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true

It's official. I'm trying to think of teams that would want him. Bears? Chargers?
I heard hes talkin with the patriots... Dont have a link friend just said he heard it on the radio.
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Old 04-25-2008, 02:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DragonFireKai View Post
There's a big difference between being 38th in career rushing TDs, and being 7th. Alexander's 9,400 rushing yards also trumps Davis' 7,600. Personally, I think Davis should get on on the Gail Sayers card.
You are looking at longevity, I'm looking at how they performed when they were at their peak. Was Jerome Bettis better than Davis? Hell no, but he trumps Davis in stats because he was able to hold on for some extra seasons getting small amount of carries.


Quote:
Alexander's 1,300 yards and 14 TDs ahead of Holmes.
Honestly, while I respect Holmes, I think he benefited tremendously from that Chiefs OL. Derrick freakin Blaylock looked like a Pro Bowler for crying out loud behind that line. But yet, he and Alexander posted similar stats. Holmes had a career ending injury that probably would've kept him on par with Alexander if that didn't occur.


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Here are the playoff rushing averages of the running backs in the discussion.

Alexander: 62.7 rushing yards and .9 TDs
Terrell Davis: 142.5 rushing yards and 1.5 TDs
Priest Holmes: 55.25 rushing yards and .5 TDs
Emmitt Smith: 93.3 rushing yards and 1.2 TDs
Marshall Faulk: 50.2 rushing yards and .7 TDs
John Riggins: 110.7 rushing yards and 1.3 TDs
Walter Payton: 70.2 rushing yards and .2 TDs
LaDainian Tomlinson: 55.6 rushing yards and .6 TDs
Marcus Allen: 84.2 rushing yards and .8 TDs

Can you say that Alexander is by far the worst of these backs?
First, Faulk is probably the guy that you need to include receiving yards the most from, since he was just as big a part of the passing game as the running game. He ended up netting about 40 yards receiving a game. 90+ yards from scrimmage, nearly a TD a game is solid, easily trumps Alexander's totals(including receiving yards).
As for Alexander, I will say he only had 3 good/great games out of the 9 he has played in the playoffs. And his TD's, he had 3 in one game, but only 20 carries for 45 yards. That tells me he did jack squat for most of the game except when the Seahawks got inside the red zone. Heck, 7 of the 8 TD's he's scored in the playoffs have been in losing efforts. Not to mention a measly 3.3 ypc.

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So 1,600 yards from scrimmage and 16 TDs isn't being a major contributer? For Five years, that was the minimum that Alexander produced.

Emmitt Smith only had 3 seasons above that.
Priest Holmes had 2.
Terrell Davis had 1.
Marshall Faulk had 2.
Riggins didn't have a single season above that.
Jim Brown had 2, 5 if you Prorate the shorter seasons.
Walter Payton had 2.
LdT has had 5.
Marcus Allen had 1, 2 if you prorate the 82 season.

If he wasn't the major contributer for the Seahawks, who was?
First off, the overinflated TD numbers are making him look a lot better than he actually was(which is why I think he is overrated and not a HOFer).
Second, I really think having Matt Hasselback and that OL has really helped out a lot.

Quote:
If you ignore Alexander's rookie season, where he sat on the bench for Ricky Watters' victory lap. Alexander's season averages look like this.

Alexander: 1,512 yards from scrimmage and 15.7 TDs over 7 years.
Davis: 1,270 yards from scrimmage and 9.3 TDs over 7 years.
Holmes: 1,237 yfs and 10.4 TDs over 9 years
Faulk: 1,596 yfs and 11.3 TDs over 12 years
Riggins: 960 yfs and 8.3 TDs over 14 years.
Brown: 1,646 yfs and 14 TDs over 9 years.
Payton: 1,635 yfs and 9.6 TDs over 13 years
Tomlinson: 2,003 yfs and 18 TDs over 7 years
Allen: 1,103 yfs and 9 TDs over 16 years
Smith: 1,438 yfs and 11.7 TDs over 15 years.
Well, you can't do that, ignore a year for someone without ignoring years for someone else. I like though that you corrected this with a recent post. You need to look at what they did during their "prime", like Alexander's 5 seasons, TD's 4 seasons, Holmes 3-4 seasons, etc.
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
You are looking at longevity, I'm looking at how they performed when they were at their peak. Was Jerome Bettis better than Davis? Hell no, but he trumps Davis in stats because he was able to hold on for some extra seasons getting small amount of carries.
But you have to consider both. With players like Bettis and Alexander, they both had high peak value, and more longevity than Davis.

Quote:
Honestly, while I respect Holmes, I think he benefited tremendously from that Chiefs OL. Derrick freakin Blaylock looked like a Pro Bowler for crying out loud behind that line. But yet, he and Alexander posted similar stats. Holmes had a career ending injury that probably would've kept him on par with Alexander if that didn't occur.
KC's O line during Holmes' peak was much better than Seattle's ever was. That line was on par with anything that Emmitt or Riggins ran behind.



Quote:
First, Faulk is probably the guy that you need to include receiving yards the most from, since he was just as big a part of the passing game as the running game. He ended up netting about 40 yards receiving a game. 90+ yards from scrimmage, nearly a TD a game is solid, easily trumps Alexander's totals(including receiving yards).
As for Alexander, I will say he only had 3 good/great games out of the 9 he has played in the playoffs. And his TD's, he had 3 in one game, but only 20 carries for 45 yards. That tells me he did jack squat for most of the game except when the Seahawks got inside the red zone. Heck, 7 of the 8 TD's he's scored in the playoffs have been in losing efforts. Not to mention a measly 3.3 ypc.
And Tomlinson only had two decent playoff games, and lost both of them, and averaged 3.5 ypc. Marshall only averaged 3.6 ypc in the the playoffs. ALL of Walter Payton's playoff TDs were in losing efforts, and he only averaged 3.5 ypc. Alexander's playoff performance isn't out of line for an elite running back

Quote:
First off, the overinflated TD numbers are making him look a lot better than he actually was(which is why I think he is overrated and not a HOFer).
Second, I really think having Matt Hasselback and that OL has really helped out a lot
During Alexander's first five years as a starter, these were Hasselback's stat lines.

2,023 yards, 7 TDs, 8 INTs, 54.8% (most comperable season by a 07 QB, Joey Harrington)
3,075 yards, 15 TDs, 10 INTs, 63.7% (Jason Campbell)
3,841 yards, 26 TDs, 15 INTs, 61.0% (Kurt Warner)
3,382 yards, 22 TDs, 15 INTs, 58.9% (Phillip Rivers)
3,459 yards, 24 TDs, 9 INTs, 65.5% (Donovan McNabb)

You want to talk about benefiting from QBs? Faulk had Kurt Warner, when Kurt Warner was a beast. Smith had Aikman. Davis had Elway. And you say Alexander got a tremendous benefit from Matt Hasselback?

And the O-line? Is Walter Jones that much better than Orlando Pace or Willie Roaf? Was Hutchinson that much better than Larry Allen or Wil Shields?

Quote:
Well, you can't do that, ignore a year for someone without ignoring years for someone else. I like though that you corrected this with a recent post. You need to look at what they did during their "prime", like Alexander's 5 seasons, TD's 4 seasons, Holmes 3-4 seasons, etc.
I ignored seasons before they became the primary starter. I dropped Holmes' rookie season. Everyone else started from the get go. I didn't ignore a year based on injury, for Alexander or anyone else.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Though his release by the Seattle Seahawks initially was met with the soothing melody of crickets rubbing their wings together, running back Shaun Alexander is suddenly hearing the chirping of a cell phone instead.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that Alexander will follow his visit with the Cincinnati Bengals with a trip to New Orleans, where he’ll visit with the Saints.

The interest in Alexander should be regarded as a bad sign for running back Deuce McAllister, who is recovering from his second torn ACL in three seasons. If Alexander signs, McAllister could be scuttled.

The broader question with Alexander is whether anyone will offer him a deal that he’ll deem to be worthy of his abilities. Our guess is that, in the end, he’ll ink a multi-year deal that will appear to be a big-money package but that on closer inspection will be essentially a one-year deal with a reasonable base salary and lots of incentives.

As we see it, there’s no need for Alexander to rush the process. He’ll avoid all offseason workouts and mandatory minicamps if he doesn’t sign with a team, and his leverage in one or more cities could increase significantly if/when one of the top tailbacks blows out a knee during those non-contact contact practices.
Hm. Interesting, I suppose.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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has anyone noticed that Shaun Alexander looks a lot like Barak Obama?
Here it is again, if anyone hasn't seen it. Greatness:



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Old 05-05-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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if/when one of the top tailbacks blows out a knee during those non-contact contact practices.
Lol at article talking about non contact contact practices.

I think really the only way Shaun suceeds again with another team is if lands in a good ZBS, Panthers could have used him if Stewart wasnt drafted.

He can be a great mentor and is good presence in the locker room but I dont seem him having it in him for another season over 1,200.
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