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Old 04-25-2008, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Shockey is damaged goods. That said, Brees is much better at targeting his TE than Eli.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Thunder&Lightning View Post
First Vilma then Morgan now Shockey they are signing big names but big names with serious injury questions... Im not convinced that shockey let alone any player can come back and ever be 100% after breaking their leg...
They are not only signing big names, they have made it a point to go out and get as many Miami Hurricanes as they can. I expect some U's being thrown around in the Super Dome.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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linky

Pro Football Weekly is hearing that the Saints and Giants may already have a deal in place that would send Jeremy Shockey to New Orleans.
PFW isn't the greatest source, but ESPN's Chris Mortensen says he's heard similar rumors. Pro Football Weekly says the deal would send "multiple picks" to New York, including the Saints' second-round pick (No. 40 overall). An NFL source tells Profootballtalk.com that Shockey hasn't heard a trade is done.
Source: Pro Football Weekly
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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I don't know if this is true. None of the beat writers have mentioned anything, which is really rare because someone would have let the cat of the bag so to speak. And the national media is always late compared to the local media in picking up stories, that usually are run here first. Could be the Giants don't want to announce it yet? Yeah, but I want to see it in print first by Ralph V, Vinny D, Arthur Staple, or Mike Garafolo before I believe it.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why the Saints love building offense and ignore that defense. Sure they've upgraded it some this offseason but their secondary still isn't built for shoot outs.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Aaron Stecker is serviceable at best and I still think we found a diamond in the rough in Pierre Thomas. Whether or not, the coaching staff wants to make PT "the man" is yet to be seen.
I like how you don't even mention the #2 overall pick of the 2006 draft as a possibility. Not saying you should, I just find it funny.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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They still need a healthy running back.
I would take the Bush/McAlister/Thomas combo any day. Thomas if healthy is a beast.
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who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't know if this is true. .
You mean you don't want it to be true because your username will no longer make sense?
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Thunder&Lightning View Post
First Vilma then Morgan now Shockey they are signing big names but big names with serious injury questions... Im not convinced that shockey let alone any player can come back and ever be 100% after breaking their leg...
Steve Smith broke his left leg, and came back just as beastly as ever...Bones heal alot faster, and better then tendons or ACLs.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

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Old 04-25-2008, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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I would take the Bush/McAlister/Thomas combo any day. Thomas if healthy is a beast.
With the rate that McAllister and Thomas get injured, you're essentially saying you'd take Reggie Bush any day. I certainly wouldn't.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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You mean you don't want it to be true because your username will no longer make sense?
Nah I am a mod for our official site so I could change it. Not really a big deal. Actually someone mentioned Boss +Manning= Banning, lol, which I thought was funny. But nah stupid stuff like username means nothing to me in the scheme of things.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Was Eric Johnson not good enough?
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why the Saints love building offense and ignore that defense. Sure they've upgraded it some this offseason but their secondary still isn't built for shoot outs.
Because talks of giving up our stud LT for an unproven DT definitely means we're ignoring our defense. Yep.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Nah I am a mod for our official site so I could change it. Not really a big deal. Actually someone mentioned Boss +Manning= Banning, lol, which I thought was funny. But nah stupid stuff like username means nothing to me in the scheme of things.
hahahhahaa! do it! that would be a kick ass sn.

as for this trade, ive said all along, im fine whether it happened or didn't happen. We had all the leverage here, and Im excited about having the 41st pick.

Shockey, I love the player. I honestly felt based on his play last year, that he's the best blocking TE out of all the pass catching TEs in the league. He's also a stud receiver, the problem is he would never realize his potential in our system.

I promise you this, under Payton, Shockey is going to beast it if he stays healthy. People don't realize how good Shockey is because the system held him back so much with us. But with the Saints, I think he'll be a top 3 maybe top 2 TE in the league next year if he can stay healthy.


As for us being better or not without him...we're not but we are. We lose a lot in the run game bc his blocking is incredible, but you can't help but notice how much more comfortable Eli was running that huddle without him and having a reliable route runner with soft hands like Boss on the field. It could be another example of addition by subtraction.

but in all honesty, this is most likely a win/win situation for both sides. Shockey got he wanted, and the Giants do whats best for Eli.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Could the Saints reach for Kentwan Balmer?
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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hahahhahaa! do it! that would be a kick ass sn.

as for this trade, ive said all along, im fine whether it happened or didn't happen. We had all the leverage here, and Im excited about having the 41st pick.

Shockey, I love the player. I honestly felt based on his play last year, that he's the best blocking TE out of all the pass catching TEs in the league. He's also a stud receiver, the problem is he would never realize his potential in our system.

I promise you this, under Payton, Shockey is going to beast it if he stays healthy. People don't realize how good Shockey is because the system held him back so much with us. But with the Saints, I think he'll be a top 3 maybe top 2 TE in the league next year if he can stay healthy.


As for us being better or not without him...we're not but we are. We lose a lot in the run game bc his blocking is incredible, but you can't help but notice how much more comfortable Eli was running that huddle without him and having a reliable route runner with soft hands like Boss on the field. It could be another example of addition by subtraction.

but in all honesty, this is most likely a win/win situation for both sides. Shockey got he wanted, and the Giants do whats best for Eli.
We say that about Eli and Shockey, but our running game, specifically Jacobs sucked without Shockey. We can't power without him sealing the outside, and against playoff calibar teams, especially in the playoffs, Jacobs can't run well against these defenses if we can't run our bread and butter running play. Are we going to run power with Mathews and Boss?

Below are plays from the Eagles breakdown I did earlier in the year. Overall I am not happy with this move at all, if we did in fact trade shockey.



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Old 04-25-2008, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Shock, youre forgetting one thing though: It was Boss's rookie year. Give him time, he'll get better at blocking. Look at the exponential improvement Boss made blocking from week 1 up to the SB.

Now he'll have an entire TC to get even better. He'll be a solid blocker, we just have to exercise patience. Again, he was just a rookie. If you compare his blocking as a rookie to Shockey's blocking when he was a rookie, Boss is on pace to be actually a better blocker.

But we just have to give it time. Also, our run game will probably be readjusted to make up for it. Im guessing more plays with Matthews on the field as well.

If this means Bradshaw gets more carries, that might be indirectly a good thing. Again, we have to exercise patience, let's give Boss a shot to show what he can do. I have confidence in him.

He's no Shockey, but he's not a bad TE either.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone have a link to confirm?
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Could the Saints reach for Kentwan Balmer?
Do that, and you have Jonathan Sullivan all over again.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Shock, youre forgetting one thing though: It was Boss's rookie year. Give him time, he'll get better at blocking. Look at the exponential improvement Boss made blocking from week 1 up to the SB.

Now he'll have an entire TC to get even better. He'll be a solid blocker, we just have to exercise patience. Again, he was just a rookie. If you compare his blocking as a rookie to Shockey's blocking when he was a rookie, Boss is on pace to be actually a better blocker.

But we just have to give it time. Also, our run game will probably be readjusted to make up for it. Im guessing more plays with Matthews on the field as well.

If this means Bradshaw gets more carries, that might be indirectly a good thing. Again, we have to exercise patience, let's give Boss a shot to show what he can do. I have confidence in him.

He's no Shockey, but he's not a bad TE either.

It's not the patience part, I have an issue with, it's Jacobs running our bread and butter play. If our guys can't seal, Jacobs will get stopped in the backfield. Not only that his vision sucks, and he has no cutback ability. If it was Bradshaw or Ward I don't have to worry about both have cutback ability and vision. One specific example was the BIlls game, on Bradshaw's TD. That was power! And it fell apart, and bradshaw used his vision and then cut it back backside, and went in for a long TD. That's fine, I can deal with failed plays IF we have the right guy to see it and fix it. I have broke down enough games to realize Jacobs sucks at that. If the play is 28 power, Jacobs is so concentrated in hitting the "8" hole, that he doesn't see anything else. Furthermore, he doesn't run full speed because he is waiting for our guards to pull, so he is jogging, and at that speed and height, he is going to get tackled in the backfield, because our TEs can't seal. Patience is a non issue, it's what we need now. That next step this upcoming season.

And on top of that jacobs wants a bigger contract for his extension. If we can't run power, his stats will get hurt. Hell I'd rather run more ISO and lead all day against defenses, but Gilbride doesn't do that as much. I just don't like this deal. People are so worried about how it positively effects Eli that they don't see the potential negative that it can have on our running game.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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It's not the patience part, I have an issue with, it's Jacobs running our bread and butter play. If our guys can't seal, Jacobs will get stopped in the backfield. Not only that his vision sucks, and he has no cutback ability. If it was Bradshaw or Ward I don't have to worry about both have cutback ability and vision. One specific example was the BIlls game, on Bradshaw's TD. That was power! And it fell apart, and bradshaw used his vision and then cut it back backside, and went in for a long TD. That's fine, I can deal with failed plays IF we have the right guy to see it and fix it. I have broke down enough games to realize Jacobs sucks at that. If the play is 28 power, Jacobs is so concentrated in hitting the "8" hole, that he doesn't see anything else. Furthermore, he doesn't run full speed because he is waiting for our guards to pull, so he is jogging, and at that speed and height, he is going to get tackled in the backfield, because our TEs can't seal. Patience is a non issue, it's what we need now. That next step this upcoming season.

And on top of that jacobs wants a bigger contract for his extension. If we can't run power, his stats will get hurt. Hell I'd rather run more ISO and lead all day against defenses, but Gilbride doesn't do that as much. I just don't like this deal. People are so worried about how it positively effects Eli that they don't see the potential negative that it can have on our running game.
Well as you know, Im not the biggest Jacobs fan myself. I guess all we can do is hope Boss gets his blocking up to a point where he can seal the outside by the start of the regular season. Its possible.

If not we're going to have to use Matthews more. But then that makes our play selection predictable.

You say it all the time: In Reese we trust. If he made this move, he made it for a reason. He knows what he's doing.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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the giants should trade shockey for a 2nd then move brandon jacobs to TE. a 6'4 264 lb TE who runs a 4.4. hes uber physical and can block. then they can start bradshaw, and get an extra 2nd rounder.

and please arealize im joking lol
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Well as you know, Im not the biggest Jacobs fan myself. I guess all we can do is hope Boss gets his blocking up to a point where he can seal the outside by the start of the regular season. Its possible.

If not we're going to have to use Matthews more. But then that makes our play selection predictable.

You say it all the time: In Reese we trust. If he made this move, he made it for a reason. He knows what he's doing.
Yeah this is true. I hope he does know what he is doing. This would be the one potential move, if Shockey, is indeed traded that I disagree with it. I like the Luke P move, and didn't mind the David D move. Kiwi was ok, but this would be the one I will watch like a hawk this season, especially in our run game. Hopefully now, if Shockey is traded, we pick someone that can help be an impact to this franchise.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone have a link to confirm?
Unfortunately not.
I have been listening to SIRIUS... it sounds like something that is almost completed. But may not be finished till tommorrow.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Shock, I just looked back at the stat lines for our running game after Shockey went out, particularly in the playoffs, and youre right, there was a significant dropoff in production by our run game when Shockey went out.

Especially with Jacobs. Bradshaw still held his own.

At first i wasn't too worried, but after going through and crunching the numbers, and seeing how significant the dropoff was (it was literally about 35-40 yards a game), it is concerning.

I guess the only thing I can think of is again, hoping that Boss improves his blocking even more during TC, and perhaps giving Bradshaw/Ward more carries and not making Jacobs our feature back. Im in favor of a 15/15 split, but who knows how they wind up splitting the carries. Should be something to pay attention to though.
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