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Old 05-05-2008, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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If the Saints didn't give up their second rounder & Roman Harper, what makes you think they'll give up a first round pick?
Well the 40th pick was an established one, while anything now is based upon your teams performance. So anything can be either 1 st pick overall to the 32nd pick. If we are talking 2nd rounder, it can be the first pick in the round or the last one. So nothing is set in stone. We turned down the 40th pick was was set in stone.

So we are sure that Shockey is worth more to us than that. So how else would it work out? We would either have to wait until next year and see if your 2nd rounder is less, or get a first rounder, which we would know is better in terms of selection # than 40.

So obviously Reese has some number set in stone, and until that is fulfilled, I don't see any progress on this front. It will continue to be a stalemate until something happens.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Giants should give up a 2nd round pick and Shockey to the Bengals for Chad Johnson...

Just a complete random stupid thought, but CJ goes to a team that wins, the Bengals get a talented pass catcher as well as a 2nd round pick, and both teams end up happy... no?
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Giants should give up a 2nd round pick and Shockey to the Bengals for Chad Johnson...

Just a complete random stupid thought, but CJ goes to a team that wins, the Bengals get a talented pass catcher as well as a 2nd round pick, and both teams end up happy... no?
His antics with this media market will be suicide for him. He would get owned here in NY. Not to mention, we have Plax, and getting CJ would basically put Plax back to square 1, as a number 2. We have Burress, Toomer, Smith, Manningham, and Moss. Adding Johnson would be another weapon, but I don't see us ever doing that. We finally got rid of Barber via retirement, getting CJ would be even worse.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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@shockey-manning-shocking :

you know if vilma plays every down and have a good season stats-wise our second rounder will go to your neighbors

@edit:

me and payton doesnt split minds too much : he said the price is to high , like i said.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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@shockey-manning-shocking :

you know if vilma plays every down and have a good season stats-wise our second rounder will go to your neighbors

O really? I knew he went but didn't really look at the terms. If that's the case, then I highly doubt a 3rd rounder or later would do it. So I am guessing it would have to be a 1st rounder or package of players and a later pick. Now I really would be suprised if the deal gets done.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Giants should give up a 2nd round pick and Shockey to the Bengals for Chad Johnson...

Just a complete random stupid thought, but CJ goes to a team that wins, the Bengals get a talented pass catcher as well as a 2nd round pick, and both teams end up happy... no?
I like this deal.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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I do not like that deal, at all
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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I like ocho cinco a lot but not on this team, we have our number one WR and a bevy of other talented pass catchers, Toomer, Smith, Shockey, Boss and Bradshaw. We're fine without johnson and losing shockey's blocking hurts our running game a lot more than adding CJ helps our passing game.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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O really? I knew he went but didn't really look at the terms. If that's the case, then I highly doubt a 3rd rounder or later would do it. So I am guessing it would have to be a 1st rounder or package of players and a later pick. Now I really would be suprised if the deal gets done.

you guys are crazy.... no first rounder for a guy that quarreled with his organization
its not an nfl-standard price right now
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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you guys are crazy.... no first rounder for a guy that quarreled with his organization
its not an nfl-standard price right now
Jared Allen quarelled with his team and got a first, moss quarelled with the Vikings and got a first, 85 has quarelled with bengals and when Thomas and Kelly don't dominate as rookies Snyder will give the bengals a first for him. Shockey is a top flight tight end one of the best blockers of any TE who doesn't scare you as a receiver, he's worth a first rounder to the giants.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Jared Allen quarelled with his team and got a first, moss quarelled with the Vikings and got a first, 85 has quarelled with bengals and when Thomas and Kelly don't dominate as rookies Snyder will give the bengals a first for him. Shockey is a top flight tight end one of the best blockers of any TE who doesn't scare you as a receiver, he's worth a first rounder to the giants.
And, he's also coming off a broken leg.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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And, he's also coming off a broken leg.
so it really all depends on how he looks in preseason thru week 4 (trading deadline)
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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And, he's also coming off a broken leg.
breaking a leg isn't a big problem. it's soft tissue injuries that are the career killers.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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GS,

He can be used alot more in the passing game. Problem is we basically use Shockey in blocking for our bread and butter run play. He actually is vital for it, and when he went down our running game, mainly Jacobs had issues running power concept because Boss had trouble sealing the edge.

But in terms of passing attack, he def. could have been used more like he was under Payton. More TE screens and basically getting the ball in his hands so he can do stuff. Now it's a credit to Shockey that he still had good stats even though other guys on this team got fed the ball. We throw to everyone on our offense, but we certainly have room to get him involved even more than we are.
Very good point. This is how I see as well and I am Saints fan.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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I think Shockey would stop being an assclown if he was traded to Payton. Brees is a more established QB than Eli and a leader, Payton brought him in and Shockey should respect that and he was also his coach in his best year.
I agree. Payton and Shockey, each, have always spoken glowingly of one another. I remember when the Saints hired Payton and Shockey was on NFL Network saying that Payton was the best coaching hire that year and how much Payton helped him develop as a player. Some of my fellow Saints fans--not necessarily those in this thread but those on Saintsreport.com--worry about Shockey becoming a team cancer. I think we have a strong lockerroom. Even more, I just think that Shockey would be very happy playing for Payton again, especially since Payton would do his best to maximize the talents that Shockey brings to the table.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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you guys are crazy.... no first rounder for a guy that quarreled with his organization
its not an nfl-standard price right now
He didn't fight with us, and if he did it's behind the scenes not like Chad Johnson, briggs, or even TO wanting out. He has Rosenhaus as an agent as well, and still managed to keep it in house in the BIGGEST media market in the league. Call Shockey what you want, but that's commendable as of now. Who knows if it gets worse but so far I have no problem with how he has handled it. Mind you this is supposed to be an emotional guy, fiery guy, who is keeping this all on the dl.

I am not saying you guys would give up a first, but I'd be suprised if you guys can get him for less now. If we didn't want the 40th pick, we sure as well aren't going to take anything less, unless you guys package more picks or someone we need.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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I really think the Giants will keep him around another year.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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I really think the Giants will keep him around another year.
Honestly I think the same thing. I would have guessed he would have traded during the draft. Now that he isn't and the fact your second round pick is tied with the Jets and Vilma, I don't see a deal working out.
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Old 05-06-2008, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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so since in theory the 2nd round through 4th round picks (on of them ) have to be backed up for the vilma trade , that leaves the first round pick. that could be 1 to 32 at this moment.

i tell you something if the deal comes up , and loomis send the first rounder (what i strongly doubt ) and the saints play a mediocre to bad season again , they created a big monster. no play offs , no first rounder and a (probably) bad defense again.

again , i doubt the first rounder . we are not a receiving TE away from a super bowl. but a good defense.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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so since in theory the 2nd round through 4th round picks (on of them ) have to be backed up for the vilma trade , that leaves the first round pick. that could be 1 to 32 at this moment.

i tell you something if the deal comes up , and loomis send the first rounder (what i strongly doubt ) and the saints play a mediocre to bad season again , they created a big monster. no play offs , no first rounder and a (probably) bad defense again.

again , i doubt the first rounder . we are not a receiving TE away from a super bowl. but a good defense.

That may be the case with you guys, but apparently from reports your HC is thinking otherwise. Now it depends on how much pull he has with your GM.

But that's pretty much my overall point is that your picks have to be ready fo the Vilma deal, which leaves X amount of picks left, including a first round pick. Now because we turned down the 40th pick was already set in stone, it would have to be a better deal than 40th pick overall. So that's what I am saying. I don't think the deal would go through now, just because of it.

I could be wrong, but I would have thought if he was to be traded this past draft was the ideal time to do it. Once you guys made your pick, it pretty much meant he is not going to be dealt for that value, at least to you guys. He could go somewhere else if another team offers us something good. But again, I don't see him going anywhere.
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