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NFC North Division Forum Discuss the NFC North

View Poll Results: ?
Bears 21 46.67%
Lions 2 4.44%
Packers 11 24.44%
Vikings 11 24.44%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-27-2008, 06:16 PM    (permalink
TitleTown088
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Default Best draft in the division.

Well who is it?
I 'm a bit torn between the Bears and Green Bay personally. I think they both had good drafts but GB may have blown it in the later rounds.

Detriot, not too thrilled with their picks aside from Smith

The Vikings had good picks, but just not enough of them due to the trade.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone in the division had a great draft. The Bears had some nice pickups in the early rounds and filled most of their needs (excluding QB, which is surprising) so I voted for them.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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With the picks that the Vikings had remaining, I think they got the best value for each pick
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure the Vikings can even be put in the discussion, since it's hard to compare Allen to a bunch of rookies (and all of the money they spent).

The Lions are out of the equation. They made a few solid moves but I'd be hard pressed to grade them higher than a C+

The Packers? Eh. I liked the Lee pick. Brohm was great value, but what will that be worth? It's a good pick because you don't know what you'll get from Rodgers.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's almost impossible to vote for the Packers over the Bears, because the Bears rookies are going to contribute a lot more. Some of that is because the Packers are a better team than the Bears. Some is because the Bears had higher picks. Others is because the Packers made a couple of picks that were with depth and special teams in mind. Kinda hard to get a top grade from that, but it's solid nonetheless.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Vikes, I count Allen as a pick for them. They also got some quality players there on out who could get some PT.

If Millen were smarter, they would have the best drafts every year IMO b/c they are pretty agressive, and move up to some good spots after round 1. Thats if he were smart lol
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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I think the Bears had a very nice draft class.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Bears without a doubt in my mind
they got ther LT, RB, WR
got a NT that will be nice next ot Harris
a good back safety
Zack Bowman and when he gets healthy that 4 cb will be great
that will really help that vs packers 5 wr

lol how do the Vikings get 3 votes they got a good safety and 2 back ups

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Old 04-27-2008, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Even with Jared Allen the Vikes didn't add anyone who's gonna see any significant playing time other than ST.
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Even with Jared Allen the Vikes didn't add anyone who's gonna see any significant playing time other than ST.
Tyrell could potentially push Sharper for the starting spot. It wouldn't surprise me one bit, Sharper is losing it.
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Has it been so long since the Bears had a good QB that they forgot they need one?

With that said they didn't have too many opportunities to speak of especially if they disliked Booty like BF says... However I just don't see how they believe they can continue with what they got. Who knows? Perhaps Rexy turns er all around this year.
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Old 04-27-2008, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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I felt the Bears did a very good job. I like Williams and Matt Forte has been my fave RB for the longest time.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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Yea I'm not usually one to say our team had a really good draft, but on paper I thought we did very well. Sometimes I'll sit and watch who we pick and at first be like "WTF?" then kinda settle back into it and say, "well, maybe he'll be better than I think."

This year I didn't do that with any of the picks. I kinda was confused on Davis but after reading up on him, the upside on this guy is pretty impressive.

If Bowman, Harrison, and Steltz pan out like they could, this draft could be one to remember down the line.

Love the Williams, Forte, and Bennett picks. Also like Monk and the two OL's we got int he 7th. Harrison is a risk/reward player, as is Bowman. But both at one time were graded as first/high second round tier prospects with very high upside. And it's usually not like Angelo to take a risk on a guy in the middle rounds of the draft. He usually goes safe and for the system, so it was good to see him take a chance.

Of course in a year we could all look back and say, what the **** were the Bears thinking? :D
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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I'd have to go with the Bears. Forte is the top second tier back IMO(over Rice,Johnson,Kevin Smith) and Williams fixes a big need at tackle. Harrison replaces Tank, which is why the defense wasn't typical Bears D last year. They didn't have a good NT. They got some decent WRs too and very good value later on.

Vikes were probably second because they got the most impactful player out of every team with Jared Allen.

The Lions draft wasn't that awful, I'd give it at least a B, but it was pretty much a worst case scenario in Round 1 with the way the board fell(and we couldn't trade up because we have so many holes). We made the best out of a bad situation. A situation that is crap for Lions fans because we were 7-9 like all the other 7-9 teams but had to pick last. We needed defense badly, but when there were none at 15, we did the correct thing to trade down. I like Cherilus more than Otah and Brandon Albert has only played two games total at tackle. He only projects to tackle. Moving down allowed us to get Kevin Smith by moving up in the 3rd. If we don't do that this draft is an F because we would have missed out on the second tier RBs and going skill player in Round 1 with Mendenhall just wasn't an option. Bears grabbed Forte which we couldn't do anything about, Chris Johnson went way too early and we still needed defense after taking offense in Round 1. So we went with our only questionable pick in Dizon. Marinelli/Barry obviously like him though, he fits the Cover 2 more than Dan Connor and called the plays in Colorado(which was the biggest reason we drafted him). Round 3 was very good for the Lions. Kevin Smith gives us that runner and Fluellen at backup DT and Avril(3rd down rusher) fills some big holes on D.

Packers got solid players. Jordy Nelson was a head sctacher, Brohm puts pressure on Rodgers but it makes the Pack better overall having two solid QB potential.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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The only real pick I question with the Lions is Dizon. I'm not a huge fan of the Cherilus pick, but I understand it. But Dizon in the mid-2nd? I'd be shocked if he was drafted before the 4th and if so, good riddence. He's 225 pounds and you're going to draft him in the 2nd round to play middle linebacker? I know that he's got good dropback-coverage skills, and that's nice, but he's likely going to get run over if he can't gain 15 pounds. Just seemed unecessarily risky at that point. They could have drafted Rice and still taken Dizon at 66 (why in the world did they trade up for Kevin Smith anyway? Were the Rams going to take him?)

It wasn't a bad Lions draft, but it was pretty average and had the typical head-scratching moves.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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The only real pick I question with the Lions is Dizon. I'm not a huge fan of the Cherilus pick, but I understand it. But Dizon in the mid-2nd? I'd be shocked if he was drafted before the 4th and if so, good riddence. He's 225 pounds and you're going to draft him in the 2nd round to play middle linebacker? I know that he's got good dropback-coverage skills, and that's nice, but he's likely going to get run over if he can't gain 15 pounds. Just seemed unecessarily risky at that point. They could have drafted Rice and still taken Dizon at 66 (why in the world did they trade up for Kevin Smith anyway? Were the Rams going to take him?)

It wasn't a bad Lions draft, but it was pretty average and had the typical head-scratching moves.
I agree that Dizon was a head scratcher but based on Round 1 and Round 3 this is draft is solid. Round 5/7 was ok, but I don't expect much from those rounds anyway. Dizon came for a visit and had a tape session with our LB Coach/Joe Barry, breaking down plays. I guess they were impressed enough with him to take him along with his produciton. Dizon had the most experience of calling plays as a MIKE in a Tampa 2 defense(3 years at Colorado). He had production and can bulk up(losing weight is more of a problem in Detroit). Wans't Urlacher a safety at New Mexico. Not comparing the two but what was Urlachers draft weight?Right now its a head scracher but I'll wait and see.

Trading up 2 only spots for Kevin Smith assured us getting Kevin Smith. The draft was an F if we didn't get a good RB and the Rams could use a backup RB and Smith told the Rams he could see himself in Detroit(per an article I read). We couldn't have afforded not to get him and we gave up a 6th but had 2 5ths so in the trade up so we didn't give up anything really. Kevin Smith is a better fit in the zone blocking scheme than Rice and is a bigger back. We needed a bigger back that can be a workhorse. Rice is more of a Tatum Bell. Bell is our home run hitter, well for this year anyway. I had them rated Forte,Smith,Chris Johnson,Rice based on what the Lions needed.

I would have preferred Quentin Groves in Round 2 and then taken Dizon in Round 3/Round 4 but instead we got Avril in a trade up. Avril dropping saved the Dizon pick a little bit.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Urlacher was around 240-250lbs when he was drafted I think lol....He was much bigger than Dizon and far more athletic.

I like Dizon as a player....but not in the 2nd Round.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure the Vikings can even be put in the discussion, since it's hard to compare Allen to a bunch of rookies (and all of the money they spent).

The Lions are out of the equation. They made a few solid moves but I'd be hard pressed to grade them higher than a C+

The Packers? Eh. I liked the Lee pick. Brohm was great value, but what will that be worth? It's a good pick because you don't know what you'll get from Rodgers.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's almost impossible to vote for the Packers over the Bears, because the Bears rookies are going to contribute a lot more. Some of that is because the Packers are a better team than the Bears. Some is because the Bears had higher picks. Others is because the Packers made a couple of picks that were with depth and special teams in mind. Kinda hard to get a top grade from that, but it's solid nonetheless.
When you grade the picks you grade for 2 reasons, value and will they contribute to that team. The Packers got the value, but with the depth they have on some positions it will be hard for the rookies to do much. The Bears got both value and players who can come in and have a chance to contribute for the team. This making the Bears the winners of this year draft for the North.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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Urlacher was around 240-250lbs when he was drafted I think lol....He was much bigger than Dizon and far more athletic.

I like Dizon as a player....but not in the 2nd Round.
Yeah it looks like Uralacher was at least 255lbs. I wasn't comparing the two by any means. I just thought since Urlacher was a safety he was lighter and then bulked up in his first couple of years.

Tatupu on the other hand was 238 lbs at the combine so thats comparable.

Dizon can bulk up. I don't think that will be a problem. He has great instincts, is a very good tackler, has intangibles, fits the Cover 2 and can call a defense. That is why we got him. Hopefully, what he lacks in athleticism is made up for with his instincts. This pick is a head scratcher but you gotta wait and see with all draft picks. Out of all our picks, I hope he works out along with Caleb Campbell.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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And that's fine, but you could have had him in the 3rd or 4th Round. Value wise it's not very good. Could have had another player there.

It's kind of like Bazuin for us last season. I like the player, but not where he was picked. Value wise it was a reach, as was Wolfe.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
And that's fine, but you could have had him in the 3rd or 4th Round. Value wise it's not very good. Could have had another player there.

It's kind of like Bazuin for us last season. I like the player, but not where he was picked. Value wise it was a reach, as was Wolfe.
I agree. Value wise it wasn't very good with Dizon in Round 2. However, If the draft went Cherilus,Kevin Smith in Round 2,Dizon in Round 3,Fluellen,Avril(who dropped), people probably wouldn't think it was too terrible with the way running backs were going off the board. We didn't even have a shot at Forte or Chris Johnson. But then the philsophy would have been offense/offense in Round 1 and 2 so, we'd still get bashed for that.

You could go Albert,Groves,maybe Kevin Smith,Dizon,Fluellen. But that maybe Kevin Smith falling to pick 76 is the questionmark because with the trade down we move up 10 spots in Round 3. If we don't get Smith, the Lions draft isn't very good because he was the last workhorse RB IMO. Plus Cherilus has 50 more games of tackle experience than Albert. I'll go by production over potential.

Its all a wait and see thing. 3 years, the Packers might have the best draft and Brohm could be the reason. Who knows.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure the Vikings can even be put in the discussion, since it's hard to compare Allen to a bunch of rookies (and all of the money they spent).
By that reasoning Grant Should be included with the Packers draft as a 6th rounder.
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Mel Kipers Grades for the NFC North

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Chicago Bears: GRADE: B
Chris Williams is the left tackle the Bears need from a pass-protection standpoint, and he'll start as a rookie. Matt Forte is a hard-nosed running back. He's not flashy, but he's elusive. I like what the Bears did on Day 2, starting with Vanderbilt WR Earl Bennett, who reminds me of Hines Ward. Arkansas DT Marcus Harrison lasted until the third round because of some off-field concerns, and Nebraska's Zack Bowman is a big corner who was once projected as a first-round pick, before he suffered injuries to both knees. LSU safety Craig Steltz -- who reminds me of former Bear Doug Plank -- will be a solid special teams player and could push for a starting job. With his height, Arkansas WR Marcus Monk could be a red zone threat and he qualifies as a very good seventh-round pick. He looked like a second-rounder after his junior year, and ran a 4.42 in the 40-yard dash, which is excellent for a 6-foot-4, 220-pound receiver. Tight end Kellen Davis has tremendous athletic ability but he needs to be more consistent.


Detroit Lions: GRADE: C+
Gosder Cherilus is a right tackle who is an effective run-blocker, which is why the Lions drafted him in the first round. But third-round pick Kevin Smith is the key player in the Lions' draft class. Smith proved at Central Florida he could carry the load, and in my opinion, he'll be the Lions' starting running back in Week 1. Jordon Dizon is undersized for a middle linebacker, but he has a chance to be productive in Detroit's scheme, because he has the ability to cover the deep middle. Fullback Jerome Felton is more effective as a runner than a blocker, but he's a good value pick in the fifth round. Army safety Caleb Campbell went in the seventh round and is big at 229 pounds. Campbell could be an OLB if he puts on 10 to 15 pounds. Cliff Avril could be a decent pass-rusher, although he had only six sacks in 2007. DT Andre Fluellen flashed big-time ability early in his career at Florida State but never lived up to it.


Green Bay Packers: GRADE: B-
The Packers took a QB on both days of the draft: Brian Brohm in the second round and Matt Flynn in the seventh. Brohm is cerebral and accurate, but can he stay healthy? Flynn is big, has good arm strength and can run for a first down if he has to. Flynn has intangibles, something you must have to lead a team to a national title. Second-round pick Jordy Nelson is a great athlete, and will be a faster version of former San Francisco 49ers wide receiver Dwight Clark. Patrick Lee is a very good cover corner and a solid second-round pick. Tight end Jermichael Finley has a ton of talent, he just has to make strides in terms of catching the ball and blocking. Defensive end Jeremy Thompson has a similar attitude and motor to current Packer Aaron Kampman.


Minnesota Vikings: GRADE: B
They had only one pick in the first four rounds. I had safety Tyrell Johnson going in the first round, so to get him in Round 2 (43rd overall) is a great pick because Johnson has big-time skills. In the fifth round the Vikings took John David Booty, an accurate quarterback who is great at throwing on the move and sees the field extremely well. Letroy Guion is more of a developmental defensive tackle, and center John Sullivan was average in 2007, but at times looked very good in his career. Factor in the addition of DE Jared Allen, and this was a good draft for the Vikings.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...mel&id=3357479
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Well yea, if you factor in getting a Pro Bowl DE by trading your first round draft pick then hell yes it's damn good draft.

Which is why I don't include Allen in their grade. I thought their draft was ok, but I'd actually take the Packers' draft over theirs.

I'd rank the drafts on paper (the players who were picked);

1) Bears
2) Packers
3) Vikings
4) Lions

And I'd actually consider putting Minnesota at #4. But maybe that's because I'm not that high on Johnson or Booty.
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Hard to take Kiper's grades, or anything he says at all, seriously when he's said in things in the past like: Akili Smith will be the best QB of the '99 draft class or Mike Williams is the best overall player in the '05 draft. Better served looking at what someone like Gooselin or Mayock have to say than MK.

Tatupu had a similar build and draft position as Dizon when he was taken in '05. Maybe he would have been there at 66, maybe not. With the likes of Brown, Flacco, Avery and Jordy going as early as they did, there were, and never are, guarantees. With Lofton and Mayo off the board, they weren't going to take that chance and lose out on all 3.

And I'm much more comfortable with them drafting a guy who's actually played the position(Cherilus) than someone who never has(Albert) and only projects to as a pro. Didn't like Otah at all for the ZBS they are going to run.

Solid B considering the guys they really wanted(Harvey, Mayo, Lofton) went as early as they did.

And I don't think any of the four drafts stood out from the others. A few head scratchers, but overall, lots of solid football players brought into the NFCN.

Last edited by DisgruntledLionFan#54 : 04-28-2008 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Added thought
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Yahoo draft grades

A-
Packers. Brian Brohm gives the Packers insurance at quarterback if Aaron Rodgers falters. Jordy Nelson is a deep-threat receiver who also returns kicks. They got great value for a team picking near the bottom.

B-
Bears. No, they didn’t get a quarterback, but they got three players—Chris Williams, Matt Forte and Earl Bennett—who can help an anemic offense, plus a defensive tackle (Marcus Harrison) who has first-round skills.

D
Lions. Gosder Cherilus will improve the offensive line, but the need for secondary help was not addressed, and Dan Connor would have been a safer pick at linebacker than Jordon Dizon.

B+
Vikings. Trading their first-round pick for Jared Allen was the best part of their draft. But it also was shrewd to move up five spots for Tyrell Johnson, a safety most scouts love.


Interesting that even taking into consideration the Jared Allen deal, we edged out the Vikings by a hair.

This makes me feel like less of a homer for liking the Packers draft the best.
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