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Old 05-13-2008, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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1. Dallas
2. Philly (Albeit, very close)
3. Wash
4. NYG
You can't beat the Cowboys' ability OR depth at CB. They can go 4 deep without flinching. Hamlin is a good safety, Roy isn't a good player anymore but he's not TERRIBLE when you factor in that he's still pretty good in run support.
Philly has the best safety in the division and a terrif CB trio. NY is retooling their secondary and it could be pretty good, but the playoffs were smoke and mirrors last year. If you count on Corey Webster regularly, you're in deep ****.
I don't like the Washington corners, but Landry could very well eclipse Dawkins this season.
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" .
Typo, sorry
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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1. Dallas
2. Philly (Albeit, very close)You can't beat the Cowboys' ability OR depth at CB. They can go 4 deep without flinching.
3. Wash
4. NYG
Hamlin is a good safety, Roy isn't a good player anymore but he's not TERRIBLE when you factor in that he's still pretty good in run support.
Philly has the best safety in the division and a terrif CB trio. NY is retooling their secondary and it could be pretty good, but the playoffs were smoke and mirrors last year. If you count on Corey Webster regularly, you're in deep ****.
I don't like the Washington corners, but Landry could very well eclipse Dawkins this season.
I agree with pretty much all of that.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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The playoffs were smoke and mirrors? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. We stopped 2 hall of fame QBs, and 1 good qb in Garcia, and another good QB in Romo. Our secondary was complimented by a good pass rush, but our guys did a good job on the people they covered. We did enough to win games, and in the end that's all I want from this team. To win games.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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1a Eagles
1b Cowboys
2a Redskins
2b Giants

Two tiers, however I think all the teams are in the top 15-17 in the NFL.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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I also strongly disagree that the Giants' secondary was smoke and mirrors in the playoffs. Even if you make the argument that shutting down Dallas and Green Bay on the road is discounted because Dallas and Favre (both unsurprisingly) faded badly in the playoffs, they still played well against the Patriots.

Now that said, the secondary won't play that well from here on out, but they produced a great run at the best time last season. Sort of like the Colts' run defense in 06, now that I think about it.

*****

How I'd rank the team's secondaries:

1. Philly- I like Nate Clements alot, but the better signing was Asante Samuel by the Iggles this yr imo. He's a playmaker.

2. Dallas- Assuming Adam Jones is reinstated, that ensures the #2 spot. But Newman is an excellent cover corner regardless, and adding Jenkins will help long-term if not short-term also.

3. G-Men- Not the best secondary in the division, but they have the best pass rush to complement the crew they have. Aaron Ross was a big addition last year.

4. Washington- the loss of Sean Taylor only makes the pick of Laron Landry look better, but there's still some questions marks elsewhere and the recovery of Carlos Rogers.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.
As bad as Roy is unliked by most on this site, there is no solid answer as to the ones below in my rankings who are better. Kenny Phillips is my #5. He has 0 experience, but I also said that shortly he could be #2 or #3 in the division. Considine and Mikell are both good, but not as good as Williams. They are Eagles players, and I am saying that a Cowboy player is better than either of them, that should be enough for almost anyone. If you wish to argue that, I am welcome to it. Both Butler and Ree(d) ...Making sure I put a d:)... Doughty are not anywhere near Williams, though there is no doubt that Butler is the more capable starter. Doughty doesn't just fill the roster spot, don't get me wrong, but it isn't like he does anything spectacular. He isn't flashy and doesn't seem to have an eye for the ball. He lacks instincts, but maybe with more PT he can improve it. Feel free to put any of the 5-8 Safeties in front of Williams, but I will certainly have a rebuttal to that argument.
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Here's how I think the Gmen start the season

CB: Aaron Ross / Sam Madison
CB: Corey Webster / Tyrell Thomas
NB: Tyrell Thomas / Kevin Dockery
S: Kenny Phillips / James Butler
S: Sam Knight / Michael Johnson
CB:

1. Aaron Ross
2. Sam Madison
3. Corey Webster
4. Terrell Thomas
5. Kevin Dockery
6. RW McQuarters

I think we will cut RW this offseason. Ross could still move inside on Nickel packages, Madison may be cut if we have confidence in Ross Webster Thomas Dockery.

Ross, Webster, Madison, Dockery, and McQuarters have all started for us at one time last year and the year before (except ross was in college).

Ross has everything to become a shut down corner, needs to add some bulk, improve on tackling specifically.

Webster really impressed at the end of the year and playoffs. He is back in his college scheme and showed he could defend the deep ball and everything else pretty much. He's physical, has long arms, good at coming from behind the reciever and swatting it down.

Madison is Madison, he is a seasoned veteran and probably our best DB right now.

Terrell Thomas could be a real find, not sure how he is though.

Kevin Dockery is really underrated, he tackles very well, doesnt have the height but tries very hard and makes good plays on the ball. He would be great in the nickel, but might be pushed back to dime. He split time starting with Ross this year.

RW is good with his hands, alright tackling, covering is not that good.


FS:

1. Kenny Phillips
2. Sammy Knight
3. James Butler
4. Michael Johnson

SS:

1. Sammy Knight
2. Kenny Phillips
3. Michael Johnson
4. James Butler

Kenny could really be a good player for us, he could play either safety position and makes plays. Knight is a good veteran who could teach him

Our weakness was 1 player, James Butler. he combined with Gibril wilson's coverage was a disaster, big plays would be given up because both of them cant cover very well. We brought in a FA who will definitely start at one position. Then we brought in a rookie safety with our first round pick, Phillips. I think Phillips will be starting early, but if either of them dont work out, James Butler when he wasnt injured was alright, Michael Johnson is still improving and could've been starting for us if we didnt get phillips.
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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I think it should go

1. Dallas
2. Philly
3. Giants/Washington
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.
Now that is the worst post of the 3, how can you even say that Roy Williams isn't a starter. I don't really like him but come on, lets not be dumb.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Also, why is dallas rated so highly, yeah they are good but c'mon. Mike Jenkins is a rookie and you don't know if he will pan out or not. Pac-Man isn't even allowed back in the league yet and Roy Williams is at best an average coverage safety.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Now that is the worst post of the 3, how can you even say that Roy Williams isn't a starter. I don't really like him but come on, lets not be dumb.
I don't know. Teams used to shy away from him but now he's being targeted.

I think besides the Cowboys who have been loyal to him and vice versa, he wouldn't be starting in many other spots.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.
well that makes sense because nobody else knows who he is...it was actually a typo, what does that mean anyway?

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Old 05-13-2008, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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Not being a homer, but here is how I see it going this year. Dawkins is still the best S in the division, better than both of the Giants Safeties combined right now. Redskins have the second best S in the division already in Landry, and with Doughty in there, Dawk may be better than both of those two, though it is very close. The sad thing is though, if not for the Sean Taylor tragedy, it wouldn't even be a contest, the Skins would be ahead overall by a mile. Cowboys have the third best S in Hamlin, but Roy (I'll let Cowboy fans fill in that blank) I don't know why there are so many people who automatically think Mikell is going to win the SS spot for the Eagles, but if you ask me, Considine will win it out. Here is how I rank the Starting Safeties in the NFC East.
1. Brian Dawkins. Even with aging, he still is the best in the division, though if he sticks around, not for long.
2. Laron Landry. Already #2 in the division, and this time next year will be #1, maybe even in the entire league. Already very close to #1.
3. Ken Hamlin. Solid FA pickup last year by the boys, don't know how long he will be around though.
4. Roy Williams. Actually one of my favorite players in the league, though very one-dimensional to say the least.
5. Kenny Phillips. One of my favorite players in this years draft. Though nto expected to be an Ed Reed or Laron Landry, but will be an above average starter. In two or three years, he could be #2 or #3 on this list.
6. Sean Considine. An above average starter at SS, though not really noticed or cared for by most Eagles fans. Even if Mikell would win, he would take the #6 spot.
7. James Butler. A solid starter, nothing special, but will get the job done.
8. Rees Doughty. Should probably be replaced in the near future. Shouldn't be starting, and won't be for long.

By those rankings, in one to eight, and averaging each teams starters, it is very close between the boys and Eagles, and the Skins will undoubtedly have the best S in two years, but for now, Lanrdy stacks up as a very close #2 behind Dawk. 1 and 2 are very close, 3 thorugh 6 are close, though not close enough to warrart any of those beign switched, IMO. Butler is a lock at 7, and Doughty...
Average Starter for the Giants (out of 8) =6
Average Starter for the Skins (out pf 8) =5
Average Starter for the Boys (out of 8) =3.5
Average Starter for the Eagles (out of 8) =3.5
Both the Eagles and boys are tied for the best S duo going by those numbers, now its just a matter of preference.
Ha sorry but you are being a homer, i am using these things called stats now(they are all over the internet) Dawkins isnt close to being the best safety in the division Hamlin(62 tkls, 5 ints) Dawkins(37 tkls 1int) and before you start with th "dawkins didnt play the full season!!" do the math if dawkins kept playing at the same rate(3.7 tkls a game) throughout the end of the season he would have ended with about 60 tkls and maybe 2 or 3 ints even laron landry had 95 tackles(twice as many as dawkins) so it is debatable between hamlin and landry.

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Old 05-13-2008, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Ha sorry but you are being a homer, i am using these things called stats now(they are all over the internet) Dawkins isnt close to being the best safety in the division Hamlin(62 tkls, 5 ints) Dawkins(37 tkls 1int) and before you start with th "dawkins didnt play the full season!!" do the math if dawkins kept playing at the same rate(3.7 tkls a game) throughout the end of the season he would have ended with about 60 tkls and maybe 2 or 3 ints even laron landry had 95 tackles(twice as many as dawkins) so it is debatable between hamlin and landry.
I hate to bag on a fellow Pokes fan, but using tackle stats to measure a safety's value isn't the smartest way to go about things.
Hell, Roy always puts up big tackle numbers. The problem is, he records most of those 25 yards past the line of scrimmage after being burned.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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Typo, sorry
ya i made the same typo but who really knows who this guy is?

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Old 05-14-2008, 07:47 AM    (permalink
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I don't know. Teams used to shy away from him but now he's being targeted.

I think besides the Cowboys who have been loyal to him and vice versa, he wouldn't be starting in many other spots.
There is such a thing as loyalty, and then there is stupidity. The Cowboys are too smart to let him start if there is someone better than him sitting on the bench.
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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Ha sorry but you are being a homer, i am using these things called stats now(they are all over the internet) Dawkins isnt close to being the best safety in the division Hamlin(62 tkls, 5 ints) Dawkins(37 tkls 1int) and before you start with th "dawkins didnt play the full season!!" do the math if dawkins kept playing at the same rate(3.7 tkls a game) throughout the end of the season he would have ended with about 60 tkls and maybe 2 or 3 ints even laron landry had 95 tackles(twice as many as dawkins) so it is debatable between hamlin and landry.
Like it was said before, stats only tell a part of the story. That goes for alomost any position, but especially secondary. What isn't shown is he was playing hurt for at least three or four of the games he played. I try this thing called watching the games. And when something doesn't seem normal you get more information and do research as to what may have contributed to that change. If you watch the games, you can tell that Dawk is hurt in some of them, though he masks it well. Dawkins is also good in run support, and our front 7 drastically improved last year, which kept runners from reaching the secondary, which will also cut down on Safety's tackles. I will acknowledge this though, Hamlin was in his first year in the Cowboys system. I don't know how different the Cowboys coverage schemes differ fromt hat of Seattle, but either way, Hamlin did perform well in his first season for the Boys. One thing to bring up, Hamlin lasted really long in the Free Agency Market last year. Was that because of his injury, wasn't it a scull fracture or something, or what was the deal with him lasting so long? This time last year I was hoping half-heartedly the Eagles would make an attempt to pick him up.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I have to think that the reluctance with Hamlin stemmed back to his injury and possible character issues that they associated with it, whether justified or not. It seems now that it was just like the Chris Canty concerns; Paranoia. He's a fine teammate and a very nice player to have. Perhaps not a pro bowler, but worth that 4.5 mil franchise tag.
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Do you think he will get signed to a longer deal, or will he walk next season?
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I like Madison but this year he's there more as a mentor, because Ross has to start, Webster has to get PT and I think Thomas plays the Ross role this year. We could start the season with ross and madison starting and webster playing the nickel but as long as Thomas is healthy I think it's only a matter of time until he's in as the nickel.

At safety I think Michael Johnson's better than Butler at both spots, and if he has a good TC and Knight struggles Johnson would step in for him. Now I expect Knight to be consistent enough to keep Johnson on the bench but this kid will be a starter in this league.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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I think Hamlin's coming back unless the Cowboys inexplicably move Mike Jenkins to FS, a position where some say he would fit better. The reasoning would be that the team can already go 3 deep at CB very easily (Until Henry leaves, or possibly longer if Scandrick plays like he did at minicamp).
The problem is as such: Barber, Canty, Hamlin, Newman, and TO are all due for new deals this year. TO is the only player on that list who won't be getting a significant raise. Can the Cowboys afford to give Hamlin a deal similar to the one Al Davis handed Gibril Wilson? It's hard to say right now, but if the secondary looks like it can shore itself up, that extra cap room is going to look very attractive.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Like it was said before, stats only tell a part of the story. That goes for alomost any position, but especially secondary. What isn't shown is he was playing hurt for at least three or four of the games he played. I try this thing called watching the games. And when something doesn't seem normal you get more information and do research as to what may have contributed to that change. If you watch the games, you can tell that Dawk is hurt in some of them, though he masks it well. Dawkins is also good in run support, and our front 7 drastically improved last year, which kept runners from reaching the secondary, which will also cut down on Safety's tackles. I will acknowledge this though, Hamlin was in his first year in the Cowboys system. I don't know how different the Cowboys coverage schemes differ fromt hat of Seattle, but either way, Hamlin did perform well in his first season for the Boys. One thing to bring up, Hamlin lasted really long in the Free Agency Market last year. Was that because of his injury, wasn't it a scull fracture or something, or what was the deal with him lasting so long? This time last year I was hoping half-heartedly the Eagles would make an attempt to pick him up.
ya somethin really serious with his head or neck... but even you can admit dawkins is gettin a little old, maybe his body just wont hold up like it once did but your right about the stats not being the full story bob sanders for example has good stats but his game changing ability is amazing so yeah i agree with you there
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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ya somethin really serious with his head or neck... but even you can admit dawkins is gettin a little old, maybe his body just wont hold up like it once did but your right about the stats not being the full story bob sanders for example has good stats but his game changing ability is amazing so yeah i agree with you there
Dawkins has lost a step or two, no doubt at all, but he was three or four steps ahead of the rest of those guys before he lost his step. You can't predict how a body will hold up. Dawkins is known for taking real good care of himself, and is really healthy, and despite his age, is probably in better physical shape than half of the league, if not more.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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The problem is as such: Barber, Canty, Hamlin, Newman, and TO are all due for new deals this year.
Of those guys, who is going to re-sign?
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