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Old 05-03-2008, 02:59 PM    (permalink
BaLLiN
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http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/s...nts/index.html

1st sentence in the NY Times.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story;j...o&confirm=true

NFL.com one of the last few paragraphs.

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With the undefeated Patriots on top, the Giants, who came into the season as the third-youngest team in the NFL, will look to draw even more on the experience of Strahan and Toomer.
there's my proof Geo
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I'll trust the article with actual statistics than NY trash. And makes more sense, because there's no way the Giants are that young.

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Steve Slaton could be a productive role player as well.
The Texans taking Slaton with the 89th pick is the best RB move they've made since drafting Domanick Davis with the 101st pick in 2003.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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[quote=Geo;1054234]I'll trust the article with actual statistics than NY trash. And makes more sense, because there's no way the Giants are that young.QUOTE]

NFL.com also said it....
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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The Giants have too much experience/years to be that young - the OL, Madison and McQuarters, Pierce, Strahan, Toomer, Burress, Shockey. They don't have a lot of over-the-hill guys, and they have a lot of young guys, but not enough to bring down the average.

Now if guys like Strahan and Toomer were to retire, they would bring the number down.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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**homer** If Trent Edwards turns out to be even a decent QB (a big if, but so is Russel), I think the Bills can be a playoff team for a long time. Especially with some money coming in from the Toronto games**END homer**
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
The Giants have too much experience/years to be that young - the OL, Madison and McQuarters, Pierce, Strahan, Toomer, Burress, Shockey. They don't have a lot of over-the-hill guys, and they have a lot of young guys, but not enough to bring down the average.

Now if guys like Strahan and Toomer were to retire, they would bring the number down.
Well i would trust NFL.com, I think they should know. But this year they are most definitely not in the top 5 youngest teams.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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The Raiders do if they improve their offensive line.
That's like saying ________ does if they get a good team.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eaglesfan_45 View Post
Thats what I was thinking but they don't have a franchise QB and that is what I think really takes them out of the race because they have guys like Dorsey and Albert who have loads of potential, but they don't have a QB with a ton of potential like Oakland or Atlanta and a QB is the leader of a team so....

but that is just my opinion.
So what makes Jamarcus Russell or Matt Ryan have more potential than Croyle? I realize NFL teams think they do because they were taken in the 1st round, but I am asking for a specific reason. I know as far as arm strength goes Brodie Croyle blows Ryan out of the water and isn't far off from Jamarcus Russell in that category. If Croyle was 20 (or 80 pounds heavier in Russell's case) would he be a better prospect?
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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The Giants have too much experience/years to be that young - the OL, Madison and McQuarters, Pierce, Strahan, Toomer, Burress, Shockey. They don't have a lot of over-the-hill guys, and they have a lot of young guys, but not enough to bring down the average.

Now if guys like Strahan and Toomer were to retire, they would bring the number down.
The oline is fairly young outside of McKenzie. He's our only old starter, and all our backups are young too. Seuburt is aging as well, but again, you look at the guys behind him and theyre all young.

Our WR core outside of Toomer and Burress are all young. TEs are somewhat young, young qb, dline is all young except for Strahan and Robbins, LB core is all young except for Pierce (this is all including backups btw), RBs are young, DBs are young (Madison and McQuarters might not even be on the team next year), the Giants are certainly a very young team.

On our 53 man roster, I think only perhaps about 8 guys on the whole roster if that have more than 8 years of experience.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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I'm not calling the G-Men old. Just not young enough to be the third-youngest team in the league, reading that didn't seem kosher. And per Clayton crunching the numbers, they're the 8th youngest team in the league, which sounds more right.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm not calling the G-Men old. Just not young enough to be the third-youngest team in the league, reading that didn't seem kosher. And per Clayton crunching the numbers, they're the 8th youngest team in the league, which sounds more right.
hmm, im guessing the 3 youngest are GB, Dallas, and Oakland?
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm not calling the G-Men old. Just not young enough to be the third-youngest team in the league, reading that didn't seem kosher. And per Clayton crunching the numbers, they're the 8th youngest team in the league, which sounds more right.
i didnt say that they are the 3rd youngest this year, i said they WERE the 3rd youngest team LAST year
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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This whole potential thing is overvalued by some people i think. For instance, Russel could easily bust (I happen to think he will), same goes for almost any of these other players. I think for this argument u need a team with a good mix of safer players and high bust rate players. Its fine to talk about potential (hell, what else is the NFL draft), but you have to acknowledge what type of potential you are dealing with before selecting a team in this kind of debate.

For instance, the whole Brodie Croyle thing. Jamarcus is considered to have more potential because he is a physical specimen. He is huge, has a cannon arm and physically is everything u look for, essentially the prototype nfl QB from a physical standpoint. Brodie is further from that prototype, but still has some skills that give him high potential. Now, Matt Ryan may have less potential than both of them. If Brodie or Russel can put it all together, physically they may be more gifted than Ryan. But, imo Ryan is still overall, a better piece for a young franchise. He is a pretty safe pick (for a QB anyways) and I think he will be solid. I think his bust rate is a lot lower than the other two. And that is what i think u need when starting a franchise, safe players rather than boom or busts. Getting a solid cor in place is essential, then u can roll the dice on players.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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On our 53 man roster, I think only perhaps about 8 guys on the whole roster if that have more than 8 years of experience.
17 Burress, Plaxico WR 6-5 232 30 9 Michigan St
22 Droughns, Reuben RB 5-11 220 29 9 Oregon
18 Feagles, Jeff P 6-1 215 42 21 Miami
29 Madison, Sam CB 5-11 180 34 12 Louisville
25 McQuarters, R.W. CB 5-10 194 31 11 Oklahoma State
60 O'Hara, Shaun C 6-3 303 30 9 Rutgers
98 Robbins, Fred DT 6-4 317 31 9 Wake Forest
65 Ruegamer, Grey G 6-4 299 31 10 Arizona State
92 Strahan, Michael DE 6-5 255 36 16 Texas Southern
81 Toomer, Amani WR 6-3 203 33 13 Michigan
2 Wright, Anthony QB 6-1 211 32 10 South Carolina

I count eleven guys, BBD. Don't kick yourself though, you aren't the first nor the last Giants fan who gets it wrong when it comes to reality.

Also, the Giants added the following this season:

55 Clark, Danny LB 6-2 245 30 9 Illinois
26 Knight, Sammy S 6-1 215 32 12 USC
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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hmm, im guessing the 3 youngest are GB, Dallas, and Oakland?
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i didnt say that they are the 3rd youngest this year, i said they WERE the 3rd youngest team LAST year
Look at the chart I copied/pasted on the first page, people. There are actual numbers there.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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I don't even know why the youngest teams from last year even matter. With the draft just happening alot of teams just got alot younger. Somebody mentioned on a Chiefs website the other day that the average age of our team is currently just over 25 years old. I am sure there are other teams that just got alot younger as well.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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17 Burress, Plaxico WR 6-5 232 30 9 Michigan St
22 Droughns, Reuben RB 5-11 220 29 9 Oregon
18 Feagles, Jeff P 6-1 215 42 21 Miami
29 Madison, Sam CB 5-11 180 34 12 Louisville
25 McQuarters, R.W. CB 5-10 194 31 11 Oklahoma State
60 O'Hara, Shaun C 6-3 303 30 9 Rutgers
98 Robbins, Fred DT 6-4 317 31 9 Wake Forest
65 Ruegamer, Grey G 6-4 299 31 10 Arizona State
92 Strahan, Michael DE 6-5 255 36 16 Texas Southern
81 Toomer, Amani WR 6-3 203 33 13 Michigan
2 Wright, Anthony QB 6-1 211 32 10 South Carolina

I count eleven guys, BBD. Don't kick yourself though, you aren't the first nor the last Giants fan who gets it wrong when it comes to reality.

Also, the Giants added the following this season:

55 Clark, Danny LB 6-2 245 30 9 Illinois
26 Knight, Sammy S 6-1 215 32 12 USC
Damn, i forgot about a lot of guys. Hopefully Wright and Droughns gets cut this year. I wouldn't mind seeing McQuarters go too, but Id like to keep Madison just for veteran leadership, he can mentor the young guys.

Im hoping Knight can mentor Phillips, and Madison can mentor Ross and Terrell Thomas, Pierce mentor Goff etc. Im really high on Goff, I think he's going to be a steal and fits our scheme like a glove. He won't see the field right away though bc of Pierce. I wonder how many years Pierce has left in the tank, and how the Giants will approach him when the time comes.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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if we're talking potential to be contender for the superbowl, I don't think any team with the names Jamarcus Russel, Matt Ryan or Brodie Croyle can be said for the next 2-3 years.

I'm not saying its impossible for them to make a run, but just very unlikely. It'll probably take Matt Ryan 4-5 years to be considered in the 1st / 2nd tier of QB's (depending on who's retired by then). As far as Russel, I just don't know, he could be surrounded by a great or a terrible team because the raiders change so quickly it seems that you never know if he's going to be in a great situation or not. And for Croyle, he's got a lot of young talent around him, he may or may not make it as a QB, but even if he does, him and his team will need time to learn the game at the pro level and become veterans.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/s...nts/index.html

1st sentence in the NY Times.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story;j...o&confirm=true

NFL.com one of the last few paragraphs.



there's my proof Geo
when did the Giants ever have a younger team then the Packers?
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Damn, i forgot about a lot of guys. Hopefully Wright and Droughns gets cut this year. I wouldn't mind seeing McQuarters go too, but Id like to keep Madison just for veteran leadership, he can mentor the young guys.

Im hoping Knight can mentor Phillips, and Madison can mentor Ross and Terrell Thomas, Pierce mentor Goff etc. Im really high on Goff, I think he's going to be a steal and fits our scheme like a glove. He won't see the field right away though bc of Pierce. I wonder how many years Pierce has left in the tank, and how the Giants will approach him when the time comes.
You know I couldn't help but rib. :p

Wright should definitely be gone, and so should Carr imo (who has 7-years exp). Woodson def has to be kept on the roster, I can't believe he fell as far as he did. I just don't understand that at all.

I'd say Droughns too, but he might be the least injury-prone back on the Giants right now. Still, I'd rather give the ball to Jacobs/Ward/Bradshaw instead, I'm with you there. Only so many backs a team can keep, especially if they also use a fullback.

I wonder if the Giants might have wanted Phillip Wheeler, but oh well. Goff is a very solid mid-round pick.
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Arizona Cardinals, the defense is looking much improved over last year and the offense is already scary, all we need is a compliment to Edge
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Old 05-03-2008, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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You know I couldn't help but rib. :p

Wright should definitely be gone, and so should Carr imo (who has 7-years exp). Woodson def has to be kept on the roster, I can't believe he fell as far as he did. I just don't understand that at all.

I'd say Droughns too, but he might be the least injury-prone back on the Giants right now. Still, I'd rather give the ball to Jacobs/Ward/Bradshaw instead, I'm with you there. Only so many backs a team can keep, especially if they also use a fullback.

I wonder if the Giants might have wanted Phillip Wheeler, but oh well. Goff is a very solid mid-round pick.
haha, you know i dont take it to the heart :)

From my understanding, Reese mentioned that there is no distinction between strongside and weakside in our scheme, and the requirements are primarily run stuffers who can play downhill and rush the passer. Thats why we went after good run stuffers who can play downhill and have good instincts with our LB selections. And if we want a speedster out there, we have Wilk already on the roster.

Goff is Pierce's replacement at MIKE however. He's the type of smart sledgehammer our scheme requires. We put a lot of mental responsibility on the MIKE, Goff will basically be a younger Pierce when the time is right.

As for Woodson, Im just as surprised as you are. As you know, I was very high on him before the draft. Im surprised he fell so far. Im hoping he can develop like Schaub did and perhaps we can trade him away later on down the road for some draft picks, and maximize our investment that way. For a 6th, Im very pleased that Reese took him. Like yourself, I liked Woodson a lot.

Good point on Droughns too.
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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when did the Giants ever have a younger team then the Packers?
when did i say that?
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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when did i say that?
nvm, read it wrong.
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Look at the chart I copied/pasted on the first page, people. There are actual numbers there.
well then there's something wrong, i wouldnt say the giants are young, but id definitely say they have very young potential starters.
examples:

All of these guys are 5 years or younger in the league and could be starting/have started for us.

1. Brandon Jacobs
2. Ahmad Bradshaw
3. Kevin Boss
4. David Diehl
5. Chris Snee
6. Aaron Ross
7. Corey Webster
8. Michael Johnson
9. Kevin Dockery
10. Gerris Wilkerson
11. Mathias Kiwanuka
12. Osi Umenyiora
13. Barry Coefield
14. Eli Manning
15. Gibril Wilson (NOT ON THE TEAM ANYMORE) so now Kenny Phillips
16. James Butler
17. Jay Alford
18. Steve Smith
19. Derrick Ward
20. Justin Tuck
21. Guy Whimper
22. Madison Hedgecock
23. Chase Blackburn

And now along with our draft class...
24. Terrell Thomas
25. Jonathan Goff
26. Mario Manningham
27. URFA DJ Hall/Wallace Gilberry

and im being serious with the Hall WR and Gilberry DT most likely
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