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View Poll Results: Biggest Impact For New Team?
Jared Allen 47 34.31%
Michael Turner 15 10.95%
Bernard Berrian 5 3.65%
Alan Faneca 5 3.65%
Justin Smith 5 3.65%
Asante Samuel 8 5.84%
Deangelo Hall 10 7.30%
Shaun Rogers 8 5.84%
Jonathan Vilma 26 18.98%
Other 8 5.84%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-29-2008, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by saintsfan912 View Post
Inflated tackle numbers due to a terrible defense around him?
David Harris sucks then imo.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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I think Michael Turner and Jonathan Vilma have the biggest opportunity to change where they were...Atlanta and New Orleans have 2 of the worst positions to be going to, in terms of last season. So the room for impact is much larger with those guys than it is for someone like Allen, Hall, or Samuel. So I think it's those 2 guys who stand the best chance at winning this, I do think that Vilma's conditions are going to be too much for him to overcome and it will in the end be Michael Turner that pulls this off. not just because I'm a Falcons fan, but because of the tremendous change in Atlanta, you could be looking at a RB over the 1400 yard mark and breaking into double digit touchdowns. It's going to change everything about the way Atlanta runs the ball and plays the game.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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I'm going to pick the RB. Allen will do well, Vilma, perhaps. But Turner should become an every down RB. If he stays healthy watch out.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by evans555 View Post
Why so much love for Shawn Rodgers when Marcus Stroud is the better player and FA pick up???????
Buffalo D could get much better, just like Cleveland D could. But Buffalo O will still suck, so Rogers impact makes Cleveland a playoff team, while Stroud's presence won't do the same for Buffalo.

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Originally Posted by iloxygenil View Post
I think Michael Turner and Jonathan Vilma have the biggest opportunity to change where they were...Atlanta and New Orleans have 2 of the worst positions to be going to, in terms of last season. So the room for impact is much larger with those guys than it is for someone like Allen, Hall, or Samuel. So I think it's those 2 guys who stand the best chance at winning this, I do think that Vilma's conditions are going to be too much for him to overcome and it will in the end be Michael Turner that pulls this off. . . .
Good logic, but the same thing from above applies: neither of these 2 will put their respective teams into playoff contention. The Saints will have a chance, but how much will be attributed to Vilma? With a few other D signings, plus an offense that should be back to the highscoring form of 2006 it will be tough to point at one guy & say he was the difference.

If the Browns manage to go from 27th rushing D in the league a modest 15-18 they will be a tough team to beat in the playoffs, and Rogers will be the key to that big a change.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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I'd have to go with The Great Jonathan Vilma for giving the Saints a good linebacker that they can build a defense around ...
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by saintsfan912 View Post
Inflated tackle numbers due to a terrible defense around him?

Something about that doesn't make sense. Didn't that same terrible defense make the playoffs that year? I guess 170 tackles on a playoff team is because nobody else is any good right?

But when a DE gets 15 sacks on one of the worst defenses in the league, thats in no way overrated?

Oh yea, forgot to mention KC played in the least competitive division in all the NFL.
No, actually that same terrible defense didn't make the playoffs that year. The team was 4-12. The last year they played in the 4-3 was 2005 (they gave up 2000+ yards rushing), when he had all of those tackles. And again, I haven't been arguing about Jared Allen at all. But I always thought Vilma was overrated, he'll flourish with a good team around him but otherwise he's just going to pick up tackles downfield. Argue all I want, but that's what I thought when he was a Jet and now that he's a Saint my opinion isn't going to change much. If that defense changes it won't be because of him, it'll be because of the improved play of the guys in front of him. He's not going to transform that defense by himself.

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Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
David Harris sucks then imo.
Again, I was talking about the defense in 2005, which was relatively poor. Not bad yardage wise but overall bottom half of the NFL in PPG and I'm pretty sure not

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Old 05-29-2008, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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The Jets Big 3 Should all have big impacts.

Faneca will solidify the line and help D'Brick.
Jenkins has already lost 30 lbs and is on his way to his perfect weight, so he'll be a beast in the middle.
Pace will let Gholston draw the double teams and then he'll have a great year.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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No, actually that same terrible defense didn't make the playoffs that year. The team was 4-12. The last year they played in the 4-3 was 2005 (they gave up 2000+ yards rushing), when he had all of those tackles. And again, I haven't been arguing about Jared Allen at all. But I always thought Vilma was overrated, he'll flourish with a good team around him but otherwise he's just going to pick up tackles downfield. Argue all I want, but that's what I thought when he was a Jet and now that he's a Saint my opinion isn't going to change much. If that defense changes it won't be because of him, it'll be because of the improved play of the guys in front of him. He's not going to transform that defense by himself.



Again, I was talking about the defense in 2005, which was relatively poor. Not bad yardage wise but overall bottom half of the NFL in PPG and I'm pretty sure not
Just making sure, you're saying an assload of tackles isn't that great? Then you can also Patrick Willis is overrated right? What about Ernie Sims? That's all they do is make tackles all over the field. That's what MLBs are supposed to do.
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
Buffalo D could get much better, just like Cleveland D could. But Buffalo O will still suck, so Rogers impact makes Cleveland a playoff team, while Stroud's presence won't do the same for Buffalo.



Good logic, but the same thing from above applies: neither of these 2 will put their respective teams into playoff contention. The Saints will have a chance, but how much will be attributed to Vilma? With a few other D signings, plus an offense that should be back to the highscoring form of 2006 it will be tough to point at one guy & say he was the difference.

If the Browns manage to go from 27th rushing D in the league a modest 15-18 they will be a tough team to beat in the playoffs, and Rogers will be the key to that big a change.


Really the Buffalo O will still suck? Can I borrow your crystal ball for the lotto numbers??????

Last time I checked Lynch and Edwards were VERY impressive as rookies last season and chances are they will improve...

They also added a 6'6 WR into the mix in James Hardy

I think its premature to say they will "suck"

But then again you are a biased Pats fan
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Old 05-30-2008, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by saintsfan912 View Post
Just making sure, you're saying an assload of tackles isn't that great? Then you can also Patrick Willis is overrated right? What about Ernie Sims? That's all they do is make tackles all over the field. That's what MLBs are supposed to do.
I think you're taking what I'm saying way out of context. Vilma's a good ballplayer. He'll probably pick up a bunch of tackles. Probably won't make that many impact plays. He may make a Pro Bowl or two but that's because he's a well known guy. Generally his big play numbers aren't great, and he picks up more than a couple tackles a few yards past the LOS. He'll do fine if the front four plays well, but he needs guys to keep blockers off him to succeed. He should be a very solid ballplayer there. But he's not some godsend. What I'm saying is if that defense turns around, he's not going to be the sole reason. And if you seriously think he will be, you're out of your mind.

As for your comment, Sims plays weakside and Willis makes more big plays while playing in a 3-4 that doesn't keep blockers off of him like Vilma needs. But my point has been that good MLB's pick up tackles, MLB's that you can build a defense around make huge plays for their teams: tackles for loss of yardage, no gain, or minimal yardage, sacks, forced fumbles, picks, etc. Vilma catches a lot of tackles downfield, needs to be able to run free to the ball, and isn't a tremendous blitzer and doesn't cause many turnovers. He's a very good player, but not elite and won't turn a defense around on his own even if he will play a significant role on a possibly improved defense.

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Old 06-03-2008, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Really the Buffalo O will still suck? Can I borrow your crystal ball for the lotto numbers??????

Last time I checked Lynch and Edwards were VERY impressive as rookies last season and chances are they will improve...

They also added a 6'6 WR into the mix in James Hardy

I think its premature to say they will "suck"

But then again you are a biased Pats fan
Lynch was tremendous. Edwards was ok, but "VERY impressive" is a stretch. As a "biased Pats fan" I'm pretty excited to see what appears to be a stronger team in Buffalo and a much improved (FA Happy) Jets team, so maybe I have to pay attention to the second half of some games this year.

But my bad, I guess I shouldn't use my crystal ball to predict what I think of the Bills offense - especially in a thread like this that asks for . . . predictions.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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See Minnesota has a great and dominant run defence, but their pass rush is has been mediocre at best for a long while and the secondary isn't very exceptional either, so adding a dominant end like Allen gives them that premiere weapon they've lacked for so long. My only question is does minnesota stay as aggressive with a front 4 suddenly capable of rushing the passer without the blitz? I hope they do, because if they get hot at the right time they could be a superbowl contender, and an aggressive D really sets the tone.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Buffalo D could get much better, just like Cleveland D could. But Buffalo O will still suck, so Rogers impact makes Cleveland a playoff team, while Stroud's presence won't do the same for Buffalo.
Buffalo was a playoff contender for much of last season with a rediculous amount of injuries, JP Losman starting some of the season, no receivers over 5' on the roster and a rookie RB.

This year they have a compliment to Lynch, Fred Jackson, a legit QB, James Hardy and health going in. The bills will have a very good running game and Edwards and the passing game will be efficient as Edwards has an offseason as the #1 guy to build chemistry with his receivers. Not to mention the builds have a receiver who isn't part dwarf in 6'5" James Hardy for the redzone, their biggest problem last season.

And the D should be a lot better given their finally healthy and they've added some serious talent with Stroud and McKelvin.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Buffalo was a playoff contender for much of last season with a rediculous amount of injuries, JP Losman starting some of the season, no receivers over 5' on the roster and a rookie RB.

This year they have a compliment to Lynch, Fred Jackson, a legit QB, James Hardy and health going in. The bills will have a very good running game and Edwards and the passing game will be efficient as Edwards has an offseason as the #1 guy to build chemistry with his receivers. Not to mention the builds have a receiver who isn't part dwarf in 6'5" James Hardy for the redzone, their biggest problem last season.

And the D should be a lot better given their finally healthy and they've added some serious talent with Stroud and McKelvin.
I would not go that far yet.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I would not go that far yet.
Trent's problems last year where that he had no chemistry with his receivers going further up field so the passing game was limited, and they couldn't punch it in in the redzone.

What he did extremely well for a rookie was handle pressure and not get thrown off his game, he was calm in the pocket going through his progressions and made good quick throws.

This year he's the #1 guy all offseason so he'll get a feel for his weapons which'll let their new OC open up the passing game more. And in the redzone James Hardy gives them something they just didn't have last season.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, they rattled off a nice 4 game win streak - against the Ravens, Dolphins, Jets and Bengals. Then finished strong after beating the Dolphins again - with 3 straight losses. Including a remarkable showing by that strong offense and "legit" QB in which they scored zero points against that stingy Browns D.

What I remember seeing was a guy who lacked arm strength, not chemistry. Lynch is a stud, Trent Edwards has proved nothing. I believe he will look better w/a nice big target - that always helps a guy who is destined to be the next Chad Pennington.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, they rattled off a nice 4 game win streak - against the Ravens, Dolphins, Jets and Bengals. Then finished strong after beating the Dolphins again - with 3 straight losses. Including a remarkable showing by that strong offense and "legit" QB in which they scored zero points against that stingy Browns D.
What I remember seeing was a guy who lacked arm strength, not chemistry. Lynch is a stud, Trent Edwards has proved nothing. I believe he will look better w/a nice big target - that always helps a guy who is destined to be the next Chad Pennington.

ARE YOU FING KIDDING ME????? Did you watch that game it was WHITE OUT conditions.....

We went to Cleveland on a bus from Buffalo (2 1/2 hour ride). The weather was so bad it took us 6.5 hours to get there

Think before you post

The conditions were so bad that game the goal points were almost horizontal
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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I know the conditions were terrible. They were almost as bad as the Cleveland defense last year. To call a team a "playoff contender" when they can't score against the 27th ranked rush defense even if conditions were bad is a stretch, imo. Good teams find ways to score, especially against one of the worst Ds in the league regardless of conditions.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Especially if they are from Buffalo. Aren't they used to the snow? It's not like the Bucs or another Southern team came up to play in the conditions.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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u gotta be kiddin me...the bufallo defense isnt that great either and Cleveland couldnt score a touchdown either. It was all because of Phil Dawson who had some amazing kicks....saying they have a bad offense because of that game is incredibly stupid
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Who said they have a bad offense because of that game?
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm serious when I say this, but Zach Thomas is gonna bring a HUGE IMPACT this year for the Cowboys. We've lacked that true MLB stud (sorry Dat Ngyuen and Bradie James, you're not all that) since Ken Norton Jr was here. Now with Zach... we'll be in business baby!
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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To bring a new take on things, the big target will make a big difference in buffalo, but to be honoust, although the leaderboard might have said something different buffalo never really looked like a true play-off contender. I love the way both your rookie offensive playmakers played, however I do think edwards has somewhat of a limited upside due to a somewhat sub-par arm and there is enough to be gained in the o-line and the rest of the offence to not (yet) be true contenders.
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by saintsfan912 View Post
Especially if they are from Buffalo. Aren't they used to the snow? It's not like the Bucs or another Southern team came up to play in the conditions.
I dont know why people put value into this argument:

QB Trent Edwards Rookie at time of game (Stanford)

RB Marshawn Lynch rookie at time of game (cal)

WR Lee Evans (wisconsin) *Only guy out of 5 major skill positions who came from cold climate

WR Josh Reed (LSU)

WR Roscoe Parrish (Miami)
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsfan912 View Post
Just making sure, you're saying an assload of tackles isn't that great? Then you can also Patrick Willis is overrated right? What about Ernie Sims? That's all they do is make tackles all over the field. That's what MLBs are supposed to do.
Personally, I think Sims is overrated. He constantly overruns plays and makes tackles down the field.
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