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Old 05-30-2008, 06:59 PM    (permalink
CashmoneyDrew
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Default Sal Paolantonio rips Jeff Fisher and Marvin Lewis

http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/3417631

Is this guy being paid by ESPN now just to state who he thinks is overrated? I didn't really pay attention to the part on Marvin Lewis but when he talked about Jeff Fisher he really didn't back up his claim about Jeff Fisher being overrated with any facts about coaching except for his record....

Any thoughts on the article or Sal Paolantonioverrated writer?
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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Calling Jeff Fisher overrated is quite funny to me, especially since he felt the need to throw in how Fisher was the one who voice his opinion on drafting Pacman Jones, because a head coach really knows a player will spend all his quality time in strip clubs or something...As far as talent goes he was on the money, and another thing is Fisher's teams overachieve alot, he posted alot of examples where they lost in playoffs but fails to point out alot of those years they finished up alot better then predicted, its a reason he has kept his job this long...He is far from overrated, thats just silly.
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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I agree with the Marvin Lewis indictment but definitely not with Jeff Fisher.

Marvin Lewis has had plenty of time to build that defense into something halfway decent. But it is still full of holes. I also think that the disciplinary problems were the result of the management and he gets a bit of guilt by association. But Lewis could have still been more proactive in getting rid of those headaches so that they could move on.

Jeff Fisher teams play hard and play above their talent level. He has had very balanced teams throughout his tenure there. If the light ever turns on for Vince, he will have a very good ball club.
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Calling Jeff Fisher overrated is quite funny to me, especially since he felt the need to throw in how Fisher was the one who voice his opinion on drafting Pacman Jones, because a head coach really knows a player will spend all his quality time in strip clubs or something...As far as talent goes he was on the money, and another thing is Fisher's teams overachieve alot, he posted alot of examples where they lost in playoffs but fails to point out alot of those years they finished up alot better then predicted, its a reason he has kept his job this long...He is far from overrated, thats just silly.
Also, all 4 of those teams that beat him in those examples played in the superbowl with three of them winning it.
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with Paolantonio on Fisher, but it's his opinion and it's his job to say what he thinks.

I'm not gonna argue against opinion. I think anyone who's watched the Oilers/Titans over the years can do nothing but praise Fish for his coaching abilities. From the franchise's location shift from Houston to Memphis, then Vanderbilt's stadium, to eventually the Coliseum in Nashville all the way to making the Playoffs last season, Fish has done a great job. He's not a coaching genius and he didn't revolutionize the game of football, but his teams keep their identity, play hard, and achieve higher than anticipated. The only other coach I'd trade for Fish is probably Dungy.

Besides, I think most NFL fans think that Monte Kiffin and Tom Moore are great coordinators. But, they are coodinators so it's only logical that they don't get as much attention as head coaches; it has nothing to do with their coaching abilities.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Jeff Fisher IMO is a solid coach. Hes been with the Titans for so many years and they have only had a couple losing seasons due to rebuilding. That team made they playoffs last year was VERY young and had a QB who struggled to make completions down field (i cant believe i am putting down my boy) and the team lacked a weapon on offense.

Marvin Lewis however I don't like at all and agree with Sal there. That team should not have been picking 9th overall in the draft and Marvin Lewis's draft strategy basically has been, criminal record? sounds good. good character? what a *****.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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Sal is terrible.

He'll ride McNabb and the Eagles all day long, but is a complete hater for the other 31 teams, especially the other NFCE ones.

Terrible writer, and filled with SO much bias.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Sal's trying to make it as a writer now because he couldn't make it on the screen. He's drawing attention to himself by talking smack about known people. Typical tactic.
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm not Marvin Lewis' biggest fan right now, but he's been screwed by things out of his control since he joined the bengals. Injuries and character problems have plagued this team for the last couple of years and its hardly his fault.

Quote:
Marvin Lewis has had plenty of time to build that defense into something halfway decent. But it is still full of holes. I also think that the disciplinary problems were the result of the management and he gets a bit of guilt by association. But Lewis could have still been more proactive in getting rid of those headaches so that they could move on.
I disagree. You're not kicking high talent players off your teammate, even if they were caught with marijuana multiple times, unless he starts missing too many games that he no longer can participate and be an effective member of your 53 man roster. i.e. Odell Thurman and Chris Henry were both cut this year because they were deemed no longer able to qualify for a roster slot.
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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Marvin's two biggest defensive draftees that were supposed to be the new core of our defense are now gone. David Pollack because of injury, and Odell because of idiocy. I'm not a huge fan of him but i wouldnt put him on the backburner just yet. That draft went terribly wrong and you can cite the character concerns all you want but when a guy like Odell was available in RD2 and a guy like Henry in RD3 it would be hard to pass those guys up. Ya its not ethically correct but when guys with 1st round talent/star potential are there for the pickin you can try to take a chance on them. As we all have seen it went horribly wrong but I think now he is starting to put things together on defense. Our defense doesn't have to be great for us to reach our potential but it does have to be able to stop teams at times and he is doing that. I will give him that credit.
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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I thought the reason why Kiffen isnt a head coach is because his age and because he enjoys being a DC. I think its the same way as Lebeau. Sal is really proving to be an idiot as I think Fisher is a great coach. He has basically **** of offensive talent(no offense Titan fans), but he is making due with it. Plus, he builds one of the most sound and solid defenses in the league. If he brings his offense around, he will have a better WL record in his career and in the playoffs. Lewis IMO is better off teaching defense. I dont think he can control a team, especially one with bad character. I see he is trying to clean house to bring a blue collar organization, but it is 6 years too late. Even if he has to trade Chad, TJ, and whoever else acts up and starts out from scratch, do it!

He says that Kiffen and Moore are underrated and deserve to be head coaches, but they are old. I dont think teams want head coaches that are in their 70s unless they have been there for a long time.
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by skinzzfan25 View Post
Sal is terrible.

He'll ride McNabb and the Eagles all day long, but is a complete hater for the other 31 teams, especially the other NFCE ones.

Terrible writer, and filled with SO much bias.
Whats wrong with being bias towards the eagles :)
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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I thought the reason why Kiffen isnt a head coach is because his age and because he enjoys being a DC. I think its the same way as Lebeau. Sal is really proving to be an idiot as I think Fisher is a great coach. He has basically **** of offensive talent(no offense Titan fans), but he is making due with it. Plus, he builds one of the most sound and solid defenses in the league. If he brings his offense around, he will have a better WL record in his career and in the playoffs. Lewis IMO is better off teaching defense. I dont think he can control a team, especially one with bad character. I see he is trying to clean house to bring a blue collar organization, but it is 6 years too late. Even if he has to trade Chad, TJ, and whoever else acts up and starts out from scratch, do it!

He says that Kiffen and Moore are underrated and deserve to be head coaches, but they are old. I dont think teams want head coaches that are in their 70s unless they have been there for a long time.
The bold part is partially right. Kiffin has had offers for Head Coaching positions in the past but declined to remain as Bucs DC. I think he must just really enjoy his work as a coordinator. The age factor is only relevant right now and I doubt anyone would want him as a full-time Head Coach now or in the near future.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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The bold part is partially right. Kiffin has had offers for Head Coaching positions in the past but declined to remain as Bucs DC. I think he must just really enjoy his work as a coordinator. The age factor is only relevant right now and I doubt anyone would want him as a full-time Head Coach now or in the near future.

I remember that. The Falcons were just trying to get an idea of where Kiffin stood a while back. If he'd be interested in being our HC, DC, etc. From what I've read he's basically just happy where he is. He's got the pieces to the defense he wants, and is fine as a DC.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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I read some of the comments and found this funny. This guy was listing all the other overrated "coaches" and added in..

Arthur Blank (deserves mention for paying an untested rookie more than both Tom Brady and Payton Manning, duh?)
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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I think Fisher is a little overrated. A lot of the time the perception seems to be Fisher's team "over achieves", but the reality is he just has a football philosophy more akin to times past, where you won't see a 4000y passer, a flashy WR, etc. You know, stuff mainstream media seems to associate with individual success. He also seems to like (or has just only managed to produce) RB groups which are spearheaded by a powerback. A good overall run game, but not usually built for top end NFL individual rushing success, unless he manages to bring in a powerback with good all round ability (like Eddie).

Basically, the way Fisher likes to run his team is no longer perceived as an "elite" team in the NFL anymore, but they still definitely can be. It seems these days no highlight plays but winning = over achieving, and this more or less summarizes the Jeff Fisher Titans during their good seasons. So he is in turn perceived as an elite coach without elite talent, but I think the reality is he's an above average coach.

As for why he has stayed on so long, probably because Bud wants a ring and see's starting new with a HC as counter productive. When Fisher was on the hot seat in recent seasons, he had Floyd Reese's butchering of the salary cap management to excuse him plus the market for HC's weren't that great. I'm sure if a definite upgrade was available Bud may have been tempted. To Fisher's credit though, his moderate success and very good player relations have played a role in his long tenure as well. I just agree he is perhaps a little overrated by the NFL media and fans in general.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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"Sal Paolantonio"? Isn't that the catcher for the Texas Rangers?
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Fisher, who rode Buddy Ryan's coattails to the NFL
that's pretty funny
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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"Sal Paolantonio"? Isn't that the catcher for the Texas Rangers?
Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

But pretty close.
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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My first post on this board was actually calling Jeff Fisher the most overrated coach in the NFL. After seeing the job that he's done with that team in the past few years, though, I have to say that I think he's a great, great coach.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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I think Fisher may be overrated by some, but Sal's article has some weak examples and very important facts omitted. But hey, the media often times goes overboard because it's good for business.

I have some gripes about his loyalty to vets, but overall I believe he's an above average coach.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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This is coming from a guy who says Barry Sanders is overrated http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...sal&id=3055421 Anyone who went to a Superbowl with Steve McNair's overrated ass is a great coach in my book.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Who thinks Lewis is a good head coach? Hard to be overrated when everyone thinks you should be canned. He's rated right where he should be.

Fisher is a great coach, though his latest drafts have been poor. (not sure if those were his decisions or the GMs). I don't blame him for the Pacman pick. He was right on talent, he is a way better cb than Rolle/Rogers, who were taken right after. Despite Pacman's bad character it is pretty hard to predict that he would get himself suspended for a full season. How often has that happened before? (not including drug testing)

Reaching greatly on Henry and than reaching a little on Johnson the very next season makes little sense. If your going to draft a raw talent you need to give him a chance to develop before you replace him. You should only do so for a great value, which wasn't the case with Johnson. I don't like the recent draft recently as well.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:55 PM    (permalink
Race for the Heisman
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My first impression of this article is that if you try hard enough statistics can be made to say anything.

I disagree on Fisher and I'm still on the fence with Lewis. The way I see it, if your record in the NFL is above 50%, you're either going 8-8 or having up and down seasons, and have good seasons mixed in with the bad is totally normal so unless you never make the playoffs a record of .537 seems fine to me. Lewis looks like he might fall into that latter category (consistent mediocrity) but as I said, the book is still open.

As for the coordinators, very 'duh' selections. I was also disappointed LeBeau wasn't mentioned even in passing considering everything his accomplished.
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Lewis is very much a hack imo.
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