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Old 06-01-2008, 05:34 PM    (permalink
Michigan
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Shawne Merriman
Champ Bailey
Nnamdi Asomougha
Osi Umenyiora
Pat & Kevin Williams
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Jared Allen
DeMarcus Ware
Nnamdi Asomugha
Bob Sanders
Albert Haynesworth
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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1. Patrick Willis--just an all-around flawless player. Basically, he NEVER misses a tackle...and he's got the best speed/strength combination at the position maybe ever. Also the hardest-hitting LB in the game, hands down. I give Willis this #1 spot because 1. I believe ILB to be arguably the most impactful defensive position (NT and S being the other two) and that unlike Ware, Willis doesn't play under one of the game's better defensive minds.

2. DeMarcus Ware--He's basically the Patrick Willis of 3-4 OLB's...another flawless player. He's a better athlete than Shawne Merriman (who is probably overrated at this point), and he's got UNGODLY strength to go with it. He's one of the most dangerous pass rushers in the game (obviously) but what's more impressive is his dominance against the run...he could be the best OLB ever in that aspect. Put a TE on him, it's over, you're only hope is the you've got an OT strong enough to handle him 1-on-1 most of the time (only the most elite OT's in game can do this) or you double team him, which obviously limits your offensive capabilities somewhat. Ware's also got the speed to chase down the outside runner...Impressive in coverage as well.

3. Pat Williams--The main reason that the Vikings have had the best run defense statistically now for two-years-running. He's so strong...and so BIG...there just isn't much that offenses can do. He's just so disruptive, even the nastiest C-OG combos are really powerless against him. He collapses pockets, keeps holes from forming, and generally just has that sense of where the play is going most of the time (one of the most important attributes of a NT/DT guy.)

4. Brian Urlacher--He had a down year, and doesn't seem to be AS GOOD as he used to be to me (mostly just because of watching Willis this past year...but he's pretty much a dominant player when he's on. He has a one-of-a-kind strength/size combo, and he's pretty much never wrong when sniffing out the run....probably the best coverage ILB the game has ever seen. He's not as good in every-facet of the game as Willis is (hitting and pure speed come to mind) but he has the superior intangibles, at least right now.

5. Dwight Freeney--When healthy, he's the most dangerous pass rusher in the game, and it's ain't close. RIDICULOUS quickness...it's just unfathomable how quick he can be off the ball, and then COMPLETELY change direction in and instant, leaving OT's mostly powerless to do much of anything at that point. Matt Light had to resort to leg-whipping and tripping last year because Freeney was embarrassing him so badly...There is NO OT in the game right now that's athletic enough to keep up with a healthy Dwight Freeney for 60 minutes. The problem with him is, staying healthy...which seems to get harder and harder for him every year.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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1. Patrick Willis--just an all-around flawless player. Basically, he NEVER misses a tackle...and he's got the best speed/strength combination at the position maybe ever. Also the hardest-hitting LB in the game, hands down. I give Willis this #1 spot because 1. I believe ILB to be arguably the most impactful defensive position (NT and S being the other two) and that unlike Ware, Willis doesn't play under one of the game's better defensive minds.

2. DeMarcus Ware--He's basically the Patrick Willis of 3-4 OLB's...another flawless player. He's a better athlete than Shawne Merriman (who is probably overrated at this point), and he's got UNGODLY strength to go with it. He's one of the most dangerous pass rushers in the game (obviously) but what's more impressive is his dominance against the run...he could be the best OLB ever in that aspect. Put a TE on him, it's over, you're only hope is the you've got an OT strong enough to handle him 1-on-1 most of the time (only the most elite OT's in game can do this) or you double team him, which obviously limits your offensive capabilities somewhat. Ware's also got the speed to chase down the outside runner...Impressive in coverage as well.

3. Pat Williams--The main reason that the Vikings have had the best run defense statistically now for two-years-running. He's so strong...and so BIG...there just isn't much that offenses can do. He's just so disruptive, even the nastiest C-OG combos are really powerless against him. He collapses pockets, keeps holes from forming, and generally just has that sense of where the play is going most of the time (one of the most important attributes of a NT/DT guy.)

4. Brian Urlacher--He had a down year, and doesn't seem to be AS GOOD as he used to be to me (mostly just because of watching Willis this past year...but he's pretty much a dominant player when he's on. He has a one-of-a-kind strength/size combo, and he's pretty much never wrong when sniffing out the run....probably the best coverage ILB the game has ever seen. He's not as good in every-facet of the game as Willis is (hitting and pure speed come to mind) but he has the superior intangibles, at least right now.

5. Dwight Freeney--When healthy, he's the most dangerous pass rusher in the game, and it's ain't close. RIDICULOUS quickness...it's just unfathomable how quick he can be off the ball, and then COMPLETELY change direction in and instant, leaving OT's mostly powerless to do much of anything at that point. Matt Light had to resort to leg-whipping and tripping last year because Freeney was embarrassing him so badly...There is NO OT in the game right now that's athletic enough to keep up with a healthy Dwight Freeney for 60 minutes. The problem with him is, staying healthy...which seems to get harder and harder for him every year.
interesting list. i don't agree with the players or parts of your write-ups, but it is ur opinion
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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5. Dwight Freeney--When healthy, he's the most dangerous pass rusher in the game, and it's ain't close. RIDICULOUS quickness...it's just unfathomable how quick he can be off the ball, and then COMPLETELY change direction in and instant, leaving OT's mostly powerless to do much of anything at that point. Matt Light had to resort to leg-whipping and tripping last year because Freeney was embarrassing him so badly...There is NO OT in the game right now that's athletic enough to keep up with a healthy Dwight Freeney for 60 minutes. The problem with him is, staying healthy...which seems to get harder and harder for him every year.
Freeney might be the best pure pass rusher, but he isn't even the best DE in the league. Not even close. He's so one-dimensional that his shortcomings against the run knock him down a few spots.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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1. Patrick Willis--just an all-around flawless player. Basically, he NEVER misses a tackle...and he's got the best speed/strength combination at the position maybe ever. Also the hardest-hitting LB in the game, hands down. I give Willis this #1 spot because 1. I believe ILB to be arguably the most impactful defensive position (NT and S being the other two) and that unlike Ware, Willis doesn't play under one of the game's better defensive minds.
i also found this to be interesting, since DE and CB are generally thought to be the 2 positions that can best impact an offenses game plan. I believe that either Champ or Nnamdi deserve a spot in the top 5 because of not only how good they are, but how they can influence an offense and make everything that much easier for coaches and other players on their defense.
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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DeMarcus Ware - OLB
A great 34 backer, who can explode past blockers and is extremely smooth in coverage.

Jared Allen - DE
Jared is a monster pass rusher who can overpower against the run.

Shawn Merriman - OLB
An explosive freak who isn't as good in coverage or against the run as Ware even though he's an explosive pass rusher.

Osi Umenyiora - DE
His stats might not be as dominant as his play because in NY he'll beat a guy get to the QB just to find someone having come free.

Tommie Harris - UT
When Healthy he's unstoppable with his quickness.

John Henderson - NT
Let me see Haynesworth dominate with a big contract.
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Dwight Freeney also only wears a pair of boxers once and throws them away. why do I know this? he's one of my aunt's BEST clients and he likes silky satin-ish boxers she ships to him. yea, so there's my random factoid of the day....


also, if Brian Leonard played LB in the NFL, he'd be the best hands down
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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1) Troy polomalu!
2) Casey Hampton
3) James Harrison
4) Ike Taylor
5) Aaron Smith
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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1) Troy polomalu!
2) Casey Hampton
3) James Harrison
4) Ike Taylor
5) Aaron Smith
Stop. Just stop.
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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that guy hasn't made a useful post in his life
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Guys who should be on everyone's list...

Brian Urlacher
- He's asked to do so much in that defense, and he does it all as well as anyone I've ever seen. He'll make plays behind the line and 20 yards up the field. In a league full of potentially great and once great classic linebackers, I think Urlacher is the only guy who is in his prime right now.

Jared Allen - Forget the DUI's and the ridiculous night club. This guy came out of tiny Idaho State, notched 9 sacks as a rookie, and never looked back. He's incredibly quick off the line and gets leverage with amazing consistency, not the mention that he's batted down 10 balls each of his last two seasons. He was brilliant last season on an defensive line than offered little help, and now he's going to be playing next to the best defensive tackle duo in the NFL. Watch out, the Jared Allen story might just be starting.

Shawne Merrimen - He isn't fantastic in coverage and sometimes he doesn't take the best angles, but in just three seasons this guy has put up 39.5 sacks. At his current pace, he'll have almost 120 sacks by the time he's 30 years old. Not to mention, this guy has only started 37 out of a possible 48 games since entering the league. That's not just good, that's insane.

Champ Bailey - I've been critical of Champ after his disappointing 2007 campaign, but that Denver defense was so sad that I'm giving him a pass. He put up the best season by a cornerback I've witnessed first hand in 2006, and he's worlds more accomplished than any other cornerback in the NFL by miles.


Guys who could be on my list with a strong 2008...

Nnamdi Asomugha - I love everything about this kid. He's a rangy guy who just blankets his man. If a cornerback's main job is to remove the man he's covering from the equation, then Asomugha had one of the best campaigns by a cornerback in the past couple decades in 2007. He's still young and not great against the run, so I have a hard time calling him one of the best overall defenders in the NFL, but one more strong year and I think his name should come up when discussing who the very best defensive back in the NFL is.

Kevin Williams - A frustrating player if I ever saw one. He burst onto the scene and racked up 22 sacks playing the 3-technique in Minnesota in his first two years, but he followed that up with a couple mediocre years. Last season, his 5th in the league, he was great against the run, but he notched only 3 sacks. If the sack numbers return, this guy is the best defensive tackle in the NFL.

DeMarcus Ware - This guy barely misses the first list for me. He's stronger in coverage than a guy like Merrimen, but he doesn't pose the same pass rush threat. He might just be the most athletic defender in the NFL, but I'd like to see that ability translate a little more on the field. He's damn close though.

Osi Umenyiora - I was slow to come around on Osi, but the more I watch the kid the more I love his approach to the game. He works his man very well over the course of the game, but he has yet to put up back to back double digit sack seasons. If he ends that trend this season, he's a definite threat for the list.


Guys who would have made my list a couple years ago...

Ed Reed - Man, I loved this guy. He put together a truly amazing year for a safety back when he won Defensive Player of the Year in 2004, but I have a hard time ranking a guy as one of the very best when he so often ignores his assignment to freelance. He plays the position with as much intelligence as anyone in the NFL, but he will give up the big play occasionally. I'm torn on this though, and he may well find himself back on the first list a year from now.

Dwight Freeney - How the might have fallen. Once considered the premier speed rusher in the entire league (he averaged over a sack per game started his first four years in the NFL), Freeney has a grand total of 9 sacks the last two seasons combined. He's only 28, so one can only hope the guy rights the ship, but there's reason to be worried in Indy.

Julius Peppers - For a time, this guy was Superman in the NFL. He was inconsistent, yes, but when he was he the most unstoppable force on defenses, doing at least one thing per game that made your jaw drop. He could beat a guy to the corner like a 230 pound linebacker and could toss around offensive linemen like a nose tackle. However, that inconsistency was all we ever got to see last season. Peppers is still south of 30 and will be rushing from the blindside full-time this coming season, so I can only hope he makes it back onto my list. I don't think there's a defender out there who was more entertaining to watch.


A couple guys I'd like to see do more than just have one more good season...

Albert Haynesworth - Last year he was the most disruptive interior defensive lineman in the NFL, but there's so much inconsistency there. Ask me again in 2 years.

Patrick Willis - He's probably the most athletic inside linebacker in the NFL right now, and he's a fantastic tackler. Will he be quite so amazing when the defense doesn't rely on him to make every play? Will San Francisco ever be good enough to find that out?

Mario Williams - A truly amazing talent who looks to be a Pro Bowl threat this coming season, but defensive end production fluctuates so much. One more good year won't land him on the list, but two or three years will.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Top 5:
Shawne Merriman
Nnamdi Asomugha
Champ Bailey
Brian Urlacher
Mario Williams

Could also Easily Make the list:
Albert Haynesworth
Bob Sanders
DeMarcus Ware
Ed Reed
Jared Allen
Osi Umenyiora

Homer Alert (I know not top 5, but I feel like throwing them some love):
Nick Barnett (potentially most underrated player in the NFL)
Charles Woodson (He is WAY better than Al Harris. Id say its not even close)
Aaron Kampman
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:55 PM    (permalink
The Great Jonathan Vilma
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Top 5:
Homer Alert (I know not top 5, but I feel like throwing them some love):
Nick Barnett (potentially most underrated player in the NFL)
Charles Woodson (He is WAY better than Al Harris. Id say its not even close)
Aaron Kampman
i sure hope everyone starts tossing out home team players like that in a 'Top 5 Defensive Players' thread. We should create a rank ur teams top 5 defensive players that way every team/player could get some much needed love.

i have no problem with people doing this, don't mean to flame, its just funny because every team has someone they could probably throw out there 'just because'
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Homer Alert (I know not top 5, but I feel like throwing them some love):
Nick Barnett (potentially most underrated player in the NFL)
Charles Woodson (He is WAY better than Al Harris. Id say its not even close)
Aaron Kampman
At the risk of pissing off The great vilma, im gonna argue with this

Barnett is maybe top 15 or 20
Woodson is in no way, much better than harris, maybe a little. But lets not forgot that he usually gets to play the number 2 WR, whereas harris must play the number 1.
Kampman is a maybe.


BTW guys, we should make a big list of maybes and the sort them out. Every team throws in 2-3 guys that might be top 5 or something like that. and we'll just sort em out
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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BTW guys, we should make a big list of maybes and the sort them out. Every team throws in 2-3 guys that might be top 5 or something like that. and we'll just sort em out
Osi Umenyiora
Michael Strahan
Antonio Pierce
Justin Tuck

Although in 2 years kiwi's going to be our best defender.
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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At the risk of pissing off The great vilma, im gonna argue with this

Barnett is maybe top 15 or 20
Woodson is in no way, much better than harris, maybe a little. But lets not forgot that he usually gets to play the number 2 WR, whereas harris must play the number 1.
Kampman is a maybe.


BTW guys, we should make a big list of maybes and the sort them out. Every team throws in 2-3 guys that might be top 5 or something like that. and we'll just sort em out
Ive had the Woodson v. Harris friendly conversation with fellow Packer fans before, and I did go overboard with the way better talk, but I honestly believe that Woodson is the better player right now. I think that Harris became so underrated at one point he became overrated, and vice versa. But honestly, they're both great, so no need to complain that is for sure.

And TheGreatJonathonVilma I gave a list, I gave honourable mentions, let me address my team! Not only did I meet the quota that the thread title suggested, I went above and beyond... you may call that 'unnecessary' i call that a 'display of inniative':p
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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Defensive players are so damn hard to rank.

For one thing, their individual contributions are often impossible to gauge with statistics (particulary CBs and DTs), resulting in the usual star-gazing that puts over-the-hill guys and living-on-reputation guys in the Pro Bowl.

Then you have the fact that defense is usually a younger man's game, which leads to a situation where young guys are playing at All-Pro levels, and not getting All-Pro respect, just because they're young. This exacerbates the problem.

Ultimately, it is a bit of a crap shoot, because what happens in the future will alter what we thought of last season, and make some players performances age well in our minds, while others are forgotten, left by the wayside in the wake of a horrible 08 campaign, etc etc. Here's my best shot, though, of who is the best going into this coming season:

Aaron Kampman:
I used to be very "meh" on this guy, mainly cause he didn't particularly wow me. The first year he posted big sack numbers, I just assumed it was one of those weird quirks that happens from year to year (like Muhsin Muhammed leading the league in receiving a few years back, for example) and would soon pass. But he maintained it the next year, and then the next. Last season I finally began to really watch him, and what I saw surprised me: he is a natural pass rusher. One of those guys that just knows how to get around his man. Add in the fact that he almost always plays at full speed, that he is a tireless worker, smart, strong and selfless, and you get a recipe for a top 5 NFL player. *shrug*

Brian Urlacher:
This guy needs no rhetoric. I see how some have dropped him down, and I just have to laugh. He still has it physically (as of last year), without a doubt. Sure, he's dealt with some injuries, and the D really crumbled last season, but people shouldn't be so short-sighted. He will be back with a bigger stick this year, and everyone will look back and blush in shame for leaving him off their lists. Imo, one of two guys who cannot be left off this list, period. The other being..

Champ Bailey:
What's funny is, I think he is kinda overrated. Not quite the shutdown guy that everyone says he is, but an overall wonderful football player. Great at everything. Plays the run, is great in zone and man, a little bit vulnerable to the big play at times, but just a really good football player.

Tommie Harris:
A little like Urlacher, I think people are prematurely writing him off. He's had injuries and a defense that has fallen apart around him (or, should I say, without him), but he's still played really well. Early in 07, I really thought he was coming into his own as a dominant, HOF type player. I still expect him to be that, and I think when he does become that, he will be the best DT in the game, hands down. Probably the most explosive interior lineman since a young Warren Sapp.

Nnamdi Asomougha:
I have to admit, I'm going off of rep here a little bit. I don't watch the Raiders enough to know for sure, but almost everyone swears by this guy, and what I have seen has backed up the hype. I want to follow up more on him this season.


Some general comments on the lists....

- I have to lmao @ people calling Sanders a top 5 defensive player. This whole thing has gotten out of control. I like the guy, he is an explosive player, and impact player who oftens makes a difference....but he isn't even sniffing top 15 right now. There isn't a more flawed argument in sports than the "look what his team was without him" turdfest.

- Some might notice the peculiar omission of DMW (my namesake) from the list, especially considering that he is getting as much love as any other player in this thread. I have to say...I'm LOVING it, but I'm not quite ready to put him in that rarified air, yet. As for the reasons, I plan to drum up some serious debate come September, but I will simply say--for now--that it centers around his lack of a pass-rushing repertoire. He's damn close, though.

-Why don't we let this thread play out for ahwile, pick the 10 players who get nominated most, and then start a poll?

- I have to say, I'm shocked and disappointed to see Terence Newman not getting any love here. Really, the only thing keeping me from putting him on my list was the obvious credibility issue it would pose. I think, right now, he is in a dead heat with Aso and Champ as the best CB in the game. He is the best coverage corner in the game, and if he could add more big plays as a complement to that, he would get a ton more love, as well as establishing himself as the clear #1. Can't believe he hasn't gotten even one mention, though.

- I was interested to see the Tuck name getting flung around. While I do see that as being premature, I must say I am as eager to watch him develop as any non-Dallas player in the league.

- If Tuck is #1, Mario is 1a. Is there a better subplot to 2008 than the ongoing "Houston is the team that passed up on a chance to draft Reggie Bush,....oh, wait"?

- I really don't get the Jared Allen love. Don't quite know why, but he seems like a feast-or-famine guy, to me. Someone who will give you a huge, game altering performance one week, followed by 3 weeks of "where the hell did he go?" types. Could be wrong, so we'll see.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by neko4 View Post
At the risk of pissing off The great vilma, im gonna argue with this

Barnett is maybe top 15 or 20
Woodson is in no way, much better than harris, maybe a little. But lets not forgot that he usually gets to play the number 2 WR, whereas harris must play the number 1.
Kampman is a maybe.


BTW guys, we should make a big list of maybes and the sort them out. Every team throws in 2-3 guys that might be top 5 or something like that. and we'll just sort em out
Barnett is a generally under-rated guy, but there is no way he is one of top 15-20 defensive players in the league.
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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That could be argued, at the end of last year Mario started to put it all together and looked nearly unblockable, and Tommie Harris looked just as disruptive as AH a year ago, he was hurt nearly this whole past season, but the year before he was in the backfield and disrupting plays just the same as Albert...He might not have his brute strength, but he is quicker off the line, and again depending on who you ask could be the best 3 tech in the game right now...I prefer Tommie Harris over Haynesworth when both guys are healthy.
He looked nearly unblockable because he collected sacks due to being blocked by TE's/RB's. I saw him go completely unblocked for a sack against the Titans. Of his 2.5 Sacks against Tennessee last year, only the .5 Sack was against an OT. Plus, he only put together a great half of a season. The first half of last year wasn't anything special, but after his bye in Week 10, he notched 10 Sacks. But if Haynesworth gets criticism for being a one year wonder when he was facing triple teams, then Mario Williams deserves the same treatment after only 7 games of elite tier production.

Albert Haynesworth and Tommie Harris are two different DT's, so you have to keep that in perspective. Haynesworth (6'6, 320) is the NT on a running DL, and Harris (6'3, 295) is a 3-Tech in a Cover 2 DL. Harris may be a better pass-rusher than Haynesworth, but Haynesworth has more power and athleticism (AH lined up at RE on some plays). Fat Al's combination of size, athleticism, and versatility ranks him ahead of Harris in my book in terms of who's the better defender.
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Freeney might be the best pure pass rusher, but he isn't even the best DE in the league. Not even close. He's so one-dimensional that his shortcomings against the run knock him down a few spots.
Exactly! He is a pass rushing specialist and damn good one, but he is no where near a complete DE, that can stop the run as good as he can rush the QB.

Accurate as of May 5, 2008

Year Team G GS Tackles Sacks Forced Fumbles
2002 IND 16 8 46 13 9
2003 IND 15 13 32 11 4
2004 IND 16 16 36 16 4
2005 IND 16 13 35 11 6
2006 IND 16 16 29 5.5 4
2007 IND 9 9 21 3.5 4
Tot. N/A 88 75 199 60 31


Except for the obvious sacks which is pretty impressive, those tackle numbers suck.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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- I really don't get the Jared Allen love. Don't quite know why, but he seems like a feast-or-famine guy, to me. Someone who will give you a huge, game altering performance one week, followed by 3 weeks of "where the hell did he go?" types. Could be wrong, so we'll see.
I would argue that every single top notch defensive end is like that. Statistical production like sacks depends on more than just the player. You look at the production of people who were named in this thread (Mario Williams, Aaron Kampman, Osi Umenyiora, etc.), and all of them had stretches of 2-3 games between their best performances.

What I like about Allen is how multifaceted his game is. Every Chiefs game I watched showed him around the quarterback shockingly often and bursting into the backfield disrupt runs, and even in games where he didn't rack up a ton of sacks of tackles he made a big impact (like against Indy, where he knocked 4 of Peyton Manning's passes out of the sky).
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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DeMarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman
Ed Reed
Bob Sanders
Albert Haynesworth

I have a feeling Mario Williams will be up here pretty soon.

My Honorable Mentions (Next 5): Mario Williams, Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Jared Allen, and Kevin Williams.
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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Exactly! He is a pass rushing specialist and damn good one, but he is no where near a complete DE, that can stop the run as good as he can rush the QB.

Accurate as of May 5, 2008

Year Team G GS Tackles Sacks Forced Fumbles
2002 IND 16 8 46 13 9
2003 IND 15 13 32 11 4
2004 IND 16 16 36 16 4
2005 IND 16 13 35 11 6
2006 IND 16 16 29 5.5 4
2007 IND 9 9 21 3.5 4
Tot. N/A 88 75 199 60 31

Except for the obvious sacks which is pretty impressive, those tackle numbers suck.
You know better than to judge a guy on his tackle numbers. Freeney blows against the run, but not because he has low tackle numbers, but because he just gets pushed around.

As for Fat Albert being more athletic than Harris that's simply rediculous. Haynesworth is a good athlete but it's his incredible strength and size that are his strengths, Harris relies on quickness and explosiveness because his are unmatched, not even Kevin Williams is explosive off the line or laterally quick.
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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As a raw comparison Harris is obviously more athletic than Haynesworth, but I think what TitanHope meant was pound for pound - Haynesworth is a much bigger man and yet he is probably quick enough to play Harris' position if he had to, and play it pretty well. I wouldn't really say either way who was the most impressive athlete, but it's pretty close considering Albert's size.
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