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Old 06-03-2008, 08:36 PM    (permalink
TimD
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Dy-Lan
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Dy-Lan
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and Dy-Lan


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Old 06-03-2008, 10:37 PM    (permalink
The Great Jonathan Vilma
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i have no freaking clue what u are talking about.......
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 06-03-2008, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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My how Troy Polamalu has fallen. Rated #1 or #2 with Ed Reed only 2 seasons ago, 1 injured season drops him off the face of the earth.

I hope he comes back for a healthy season, If he plays 16 games + Playoffs if we make it I think he could re-establish his position among the elite players in the league.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Shawn Merriman- The guy is a straight up beast.

DeMeco Ryans- Doesn't miss tackles and is a leader on D.

Champ Bailey- The best CB in the league IMO.

Brian Urlacher- No explanation needed.

Jared Allen- Has been a huge pass rushing threat since he stepped on the field.
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:57 AM    (permalink
NY+Giants=NYG
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Originally Posted by TheGreatEscape View Post
You know better than to judge a guy on his tackle numbers. Freeney blows against the run, but not because he has low tackle numbers, but because he just gets pushed around.

As for Fat Albert being more athletic than Harris that's simply rediculous. Haynesworth is a good athlete but it's his incredible strength and size that are his strengths, Harris relies on quickness and explosiveness because his are unmatched, not even Kevin Williams is explosive off the line or laterally quick.
O I know, but in this case the stats fit. But yea he can't shed blocks, and in the run game is invisible, hence the low tackle #s he puts up. In my opinion he is one of the most overrated DEs in the game today. He is by no means a complete DE. I consider him a very, very good pass rushing specialist, but he is just that a specialist. If I am creating a team, and want a DE who is complete, can stop the run, and get his sacks, Freeny would not be anywhere near the top of that list.

2006 was his best season from a sack point of view, and had only 34 TOTAL tackles... That's piss poor in my opinion!

In my opinion I consider complete DEs in the game as

Osi
Cole
Allen
Peppers
Mario Williams
Strahan
Kearny
Kampman
Hali

and I am sure I am missing alot of others, but off the top of my head these guys come to mind.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
O I know, but in this case the stats fit. But yea he can't shed blocks, and in the run game is invisible, hence the low tackle #s he puts up. In my opinion he is one of the most overrated DEs in the game today. He is by no means a complete DE. I consider him a very, very good pass rushing specialist, but he is just that a specialist. If I am creating a team, and want a DE who is complete, can stop the run, and get his sacks, Freeny would not be anywhere near the top of that list.

2006 was his best season from a sack point of view, and had only 34 TOTAL tackles... That's piss poor in my opinion!

In my opinion I consider complete DEs in the game as

Osi
Cole
Allen
Peppers
Mario Williams
Strahan
Kearny
Kampman
Hali

and I am sure I am missing alot of others, but off the top of my head these guys come to mind.
You are definately missing both Kyle Vandenbosh and Dwight Freeney. Freeney is looked at as sometimes one-dimensional, but thats only because he is asked to simply go after the QB. If they told him to stop the run he could do that very well as well.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:28 AM    (permalink
NY+Giants=NYG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indyfan1985 View Post
You are definately missing both Kyle Vandenbosh and Dwight Freeney. Freeney is looked at as sometimes one-dimensional, but thats only because he is asked to simply go after the QB. If they told him to stop the run he could do that very well as well.
NO coach says to a player just rush the QB, but other then that, you don't have to stop the run. If that was the case the player would be a true specialist, and/or wouldn't make the roster because someone else who can do both equally well would take his spot. So that saying the coaching staff doesn't ask him to do that is far fetched.

Fact is Freeny is not strong in shedding blocks and stopping the run. He always has his ears pinned back, and can be neutralized by o-linemen when running the ball.

I never respected Freeny from a complete DE standpoint. Amazing passrushing specialist, but when someone wants to talk complete DEs in the NFL, who truly are the best. Freeny isn't even in the conversation. The guys I mentioned previously all come to my mind before Freeny. However, if the conversation is pass rushing DEs who are a nightmare, I'd 100% put Freeny up there. But to me the DE position is more then just one element of passrushing, it's a component of passrushing and stopping the run. Any DE who can do both in my opinion deserves alot of respect at the NFL level for doing both and being that complete player.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:59 AM    (permalink
The Great Jonathan Vilma
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Originally Posted by indyfan1985 View Post
You are definately missing both Kyle Vandenbosh and Dwight Freeney. Freeney is looked at as sometimes one-dimensional, but thats only because he is asked to simply go after the QB. If they told him to stop the run he could do that very well as well.
u obviously are just talking out of ur ass, no offense. To think that he has zero responsibility as far as stopping the run is just rediculous, and to just assume that, well, if he were to do it, he would obviously be very good at it, is obviously not a valid response and given his size and the fact that he hasn't shown any ability doing it so far, and apparently 'just isn't asked to do it' i highly doubt that he suddenly would excel at it.

i'm not denying that he is told to get after the QB first and foremost, but he's not the only player who gets told to 'get to the QB', but other players are much more effective stopping the run as well. What would be the point of putting a guy out there if u don't want him to stop the run? that just doesn't make sense and u are out to lunch on the topic IMO just defening a colt becuase he's a colt
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Freeney's primary task is getting pressure and he's great at it but he's really a one trick pony and lacks versatility.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Freeney's primary task is getting pressure and he's great at it but he's really a one trick pony and lacks versatility.
Yup.. And he is damn good at the one trick he can do, but to say his name with the other complete DES in the game is disgracing the other complete DEs in the league.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Freeney has actually shaped up considerably against the run the last three seasons or so. He won't be splitting double teams and making tackles, but he's gotten better at holding his position and is actually quite adept at disrupting a runners route, even if he doesn't actually make the play.

In the Tampa 2, his assignment on almost every play is to make it towards the quarterback as fast as possible, so it's a bit hard to fault him for being caught out of position on running plays. Back in 2005, when Freeney was getting great sack numbers, he was easily good enough against the run to be considered one of the very best defensive ends in the league. Without that sack production, he shouldn't be in the conversation though.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:37 PM    (permalink
NY+Giants=NYG
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Freeney has actually shaped up considerably against the run the last three seasons or so. He won't be splitting double teams and making tackles, but he's gotten better at holding his position and is actually quite adept at disrupting a runners route, even if he doesn't actually make the play.

In the Tampa 2, his assignment on almost every play is to make it towards the quarterback as fast as possible, so it's a bit hard to fault him for being caught out of position on running plays. Back in 2005, when Freeney was getting great sack numbers, he was easily good enough against the run to be considered one of the very best defensive ends in the league. Without that sack production, he shouldn't be in the conversation though.
Well in a tampa 2, I see it as a cover 3 basically. Two safties and a MLB traditionally dropping back, while the other two Lbs are all spot dropping. So while the front 4 has to be good to get pressure on the QB, which he is doing very, very, very, very well, he has to be equally good against the run, especially since the system calls for undersized fast players. You don't want the RB consistently getting in the 2nd level wearing your LBs out. You do that and now in the passing game things open up.

But there is no reason why his tackle count should be so low, yet the media dubs him as such a sick player. In my mind he is a sick passrushing specialist, but when you talk elite complete DEs, I just don't think of him.

My guys are the ones listed below in no order:

Strahan
Williams
Kearny
Osi
Cole
Allen
Kampman
Peppers
and I am sure I am missing others, but I listed them all in a previous post. But I considered these DEs complete DEs, and studs. Highly respect them!
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